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MPC WWII Jeep


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#61 Casey

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:18 PM

Has anyone looked inside new box? Is it just h h one in retro box? that one only had half of the army parts. incomplete plow ,many org parts missing. Woody

 

Check out the video I posted in post #47, Woody. He shows the kit's contents and you can pause the video whenever you want.



#62 Edsel-Dan

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:18 AM

There was NO plow in the Hogan's Heros kit. Nor any Part of it!!
The "Plow Blade" you see is an Open Canvas Litter (Stretcher)[Think M*A*S*H]

 

I read in the review in the mag, MCM) that the plow was there, but Even in the small pic,

I could tell it wasn't. I knew the part was the Litter/Stretcher

 

Aside from Accurate Rims & tires, What military parts were missing from the previous issue??

Guns? Field radio? All there!

 

I have one of the Hogan's issue. And yes, will look at the WW2 kit too.

 

I have an Older MPC issue of this kit called Bushwacker. It claimed Rod & Military build options,

Yet, Did not include the Stock Civilian rims/tires that were original to the kit, and in the H-H re-issue.

 

That one was Incomplete. And No it did NOT have a Snow-Plow either!!!

 

Last Jeep kit I remember with one is the 72 Annual Jeepster/Commando.

I built one New!!! (and another from an "Hombre" re-issue

Wish all the re-issues Hombre, Mountain Goat, etc had been Complete copies of the original annual,

but they weren't. I still bought a few.

I was hoping for the Full Sedan/Wagon type roof, and Snow-Plow, but they were deleted.

I was lucky in that they still had the Stock Open Steel rims, and even Hubcaps, but were Lifted,

and only had Large 4x4 tires

 

From what I understand, (Saw in the video) This issue Does have the rear seat, that the H-H kit didn't.

Decals are more limited though. There aren't any for the Surrey/Taxi version this time,

Though they Were in

the H-H kit


Edited by Edsel-Dan, 09 April 2013 - 12:20 AM.


#63 Art Anderson

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 04:26 PM

Willys. It has the Go-Devil 4 cylinders. The wheelsand tires are incorrect for a WW2 or Korean War era military Jeep, the wheels are '47 and later, with the semi-floating rear hubs. The tires are the old Goodyear Suburbanite style snow tires.

Even the Ford-built GP Jeep used the Willys Go-Devil engine.  Ford simply built Jeeps under license from Willys-Overland, due to their inability to supply the sheer volume of Jeeps required (over 400,000), considering that Williys Overland had never produced more than about 30,000 cars in any single year.

 

Art



#64 Longbox55

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:26 PM

Art, you got me thinking about that kit, had to dig it out and do some comaprisons to 1:1 Willys MB and Ford GPW Jeeps jsut to see how it really stacks up. Going from how the kit itself is made, I will have to say that it is much closer to the Ford version as far as a WW2 Jeep goes, mainly from the frame design. The front crossmember is the main difference. The Willys used a large tubular crossmember, the Ford has an inverted U channel crossmember. The kit has a Ford style crossmember. The grille is also a Ford item which was adopted on the Willys after about 1942. The rest of the body tub it straight up post WW2 Willys CJ2, though.



#65 Art Anderson

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 07:52 AM

Art, you got me thinking about that kit, had to dig it out and do some comaprisons to 1:1 Willys MB and Ford GPW Jeeps jsut to see how it really stacks up. Going from how the kit itself is made, I will have to say that it is much closer to the Ford version as far as a WW2 Jeep goes, mainly from the frame design. The front crossmember is the main difference. The Willys used a large tubular crossmember, the Ford has an inverted U channel crossmember. The kit has a Ford style crossmember. The grille is also a Ford item which was adopted on the Willys after about 1942. The rest of the body tub it straight up post WW2 Willys CJ2, though.

Interesting that you say the grille is a Ford item, given that virtually all the WW-II MB and GP Jeep sheet metal was stamped by Auburn Central Manufacturing of Connersville, Indiana (the stamping plant where bodywork for Auburns and Cords was produced in the 1930's.  Given the fairly short run production orders from the War Department to both Ford and Willys-Overland (Even though nearly 400,000 Jeeps were produced 1942-45, they were ordered in batches of perhaps 15-20 thousand at a time, rather than just giving the two companies a blanket production order setting production lines in unlimited continuous production for the duration.  Incidentally, this was the same manner in which military aircraft were ordered, as well as ships, tanks, artillery and small arms).  With this in mind, it's little wonder if small variations in MB's from one batch to the next occurred (for example, in late July 1942, civilian auto and truck makers were ordered to remove all their logo's and trademarked identifiers from military vehicles).  As an example of such batch differences, the GMC CCKW 6X6 truck was produced with both GMC inline 6's and the 235cid Chevrolet truck engine, again a batch difference of sorts.  As for the Ford style front crossmember, apparently that was due to Ford's wanting to cut down the amount of fabrication, as well as Ford's being able to stamp our their own frame components, where Willys relied on an outside supplier for those--likely AO Smith, who specialized in producing frames for the auto and light truck industry.

 

A little bit more on the M38 Jeep:  When the Korean Conflict broke out in June 1950, the US Army (along with the Navy and Marine Corps) were still using left-over MB Jeeps, the newest of which were fairly long in the tooth, being at least 5 years old, and many had seen hard use.  In 1951, Willys-Overland was given an order for new military Jeeps, leading to the "militarization" of the CJ-2A bodywork--basically a return to a solid back panel in the body in place of the civilian pickup truck style tailgate and the moving of the spare tire mount back to the right side of the rear of the body (CJ's had their spare mounted high on the rear of the right side of the body in order to make way for their tailgate feature).  A new grille for the CJ-2A body moved the headlights back behind that grille panel, just as with the MB.  Military gearshift and transfer case levers came back, in place of the two lever arrangement used on civilian Jeeps, and of course, a modified instrument panel allowing for the mounting of military radio equipment.  M38 production continued for just a couple of years--and was replaced in 1954 with the M38A2 Jeep, which was the first use of a body with a wider cowling, and the rounded hood well-known to today's Jeep enthusiasts on the CJ-5.  The M38A2 remained in production into the early 1960's, given the military buildup for the Cold War, and the adoption of the M38A2 by several countries in both the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and the South East Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO).  In addition, M38A2's were supplied to several Latin American countries as well as some emerging African nations.

 

Art


Edited by Art Anderson, 22 April 2013 - 07:56 AM.


#66 Longbox55

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:19 PM

Art, this is where I got the information about the grilles http://olive-drab.co...jeeps_mbgpw.php. Seems that Willys used a fabricated slat grille on early models, when Ford started producing them, they used the stamped grille, which is similar to the grille found in the kit. Willys adopted the Ford design grille, mainly due to the military wanting full interchangability between the two variants.



#67 Casey

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 06:50 AM

I think the Jeep that had the trailer was the one from the Korean war and that became the CJ5 later on. I have one of the Korean Jeeps and it has the trailer. 

 

MPCJEep-1.jpg



#68 59 Impala

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:52 PM

 

MPCJEep-1.jpg

 

Yep, this is the one.  :)   Dan



#69 Art Anderson

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 06:56 PM

 

MPCJEep-1.jpg

What's almost funny is though:  The CJ-5 was a civilian derivation of the Kaiser-Willys M38A1 Jeep that entered production at Toledo in 1954, several months AFTER the Korean Armistice was signed at Panmumjon Korea.  To further complicate the issue regarding MPC's Jeep kits--the Hogan's Heroes Jeep/WW-II Jeep kit is in now way a WW-II Jeep, but rather in the kit supplied military version, it's loosely the civilian Jeep CJ-2A as re-militarized in 1951 as the Willys M38 Jeep for the US Army.

 

CJ-5's entered production as 1955 models, and continued virtually unchanged until AMC bought Jeep from Kaiser Industries in 1969, and stretched the frame and cowling to accept the AMC inline 6-cylinder engine, in replacement of the almost ancient Willys 4cyl which had been updated from flathead to F-head (intake valves in head, exhaust valves in the block) in the early 1950's--the Jeep Hurricane engine.

 

Art



#70 Art Anderson

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 07:03 PM

Art, this is where I got the information about the grilles http://olive-drab.co...jeeps_mbgpw.php. Seems that Willys used a fabricated slat grille on early models, when Ford started producing them, they used the stamped grille, which is similar to the grille found in the kit. Willys adopted the Ford design grille, mainly due to the military wanting full interchangability between the two variants.

Bill, 

 

I suspect that a bigger incentive to completely standardize WW-II Jeep bodies was that the vast majority of Jeep sheet metal during the war was produced by Auburn Central Manufacturing (the last remnant of the Auburn Automobile Company to continue in the manufacturing business), of Connersville IN.  I don't know that the Army much cared about interchangeable body panels given that battle damaged Jeeps tended to get discarded, except for their mechanicals, certainly by sometime in 1943.  In short, Jeeps tended to be very much expendable.

 

Art



#71 Longbox55

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 05:40 PM

That makes sense. I would think that they went with the Ford design simply because it was cheaper and faster to manufacture that the early Willys fabricated design. To be honest, it looks better, too, not that it would really matter on a wartime military vehicle.



#72 jeba

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:45 AM

Hey guys, if you want the trailer and military tire/wheels, check out star models under resin/Hendrick.  The trailer list for $23 and the tires for $12.



#73 Art Anderson

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 11:42 AM

That makes sense. I would think that they went with the Ford design simply because it was cheaper and faster to manufacture that the early Willys fabricated design. To be honest, it looks better, too, not that it would really matter on a wartime military vehicle.

Of course, the first Jeeps built were produced in a rather small production run, only a few hundred.  I'd be pretty sure that precluded making every body part as a sheet metal stamping--particularly as Jeep came along before Pearl Harbor, and very few people were willing to believe that this country's involvment in World War II was at all imminent.  (of course, that all changed for good on Sunday, December 7, 1941!)

 

Art



#74 crowe-t

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 06:27 AM

What's almost funny is though:  The CJ-5 was a civilian derivation of the Kaiser-Willys M38A1 Jeep that entered production at Toledo in 1954, several months AFTER the Korean Armistice was signed at Panmumjon Korea.  To further complicate the issue regarding MPC's Jeep kits--the Hogan's Heroes Jeep/WW-II Jeep kit is in now way a WW-II Jeep, but rather in the kit supplied military version, it's loosely the civilian Jeep CJ-2A as re-militarized in 1951 as the Willys M38 Jeep for the US Army.

 

CJ-5's entered production as 1955 models, and continued virtually unchanged until AMC bought Jeep from Kaiser Industries in 1969, and stretched the frame and cowling to accept the AMC inline 6-cylinder engine, in replacement of the almost ancient Willys 4cyl which had been updated from flathead to F-head (intake valves in head, exhaust valves in the block) in the early 1950's--the Jeep Hurricane engine.

 

Art

 

I found this information on Wikipedia.  It says the M38A1 was used in the Korean War.  

 

The compact military jeep continued to be used in the Korean and Vietnam Wars. In Korea, it was mostly deployed in the form of the MB, as well as the M38 and M38A1 (introduced in 1952 and 1953), its direct descendants.

 

Is this true or did the M38A1 actually start production in 1954?

 

 



#75 Art Anderson

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 07:22 AM

 

I found this information on Wikipedia.  It says the M38A1 was used in the Korean War.  

 

The compact military jeep continued to be used in the Korean and Vietnam Wars. In Korea, it was mostly deployed in the form of the MB, as well as the M38 and M38A1 (introduced in 1952 and 1953), its direct descendants.

 

Is this true or did the M38A1 actually start production in 1954?

 

 

The M-38 was a "re-militarizing" of the CJ-2a in 1950, in answer to the need of the US Army for newly produced Jeeps--the Army having to scour depot's of abandoned MB Jeeps left behind on several islands in the Pacific at the end of WW-II--and MB's were wearing out rapidly.  Bear in mind that combat in Korea ended in July 1953, while the "Korean War Era" as regards the US Military encompasses virtually the entire decade of the 1950's.  I believe the vast majority of Jeeps used in Korea were either refurbished MB's or M-38's.  However, the need for more new Jeeps was even larger in Europe, with the US recognizing that there was a "Cold War" crisis there, beginning with the Berlin Blockade by the USSR which began in 1948, ending in late summer 1950.

 

The M38A1 entered production in 1952, and was first produced for the US Army, and offered for civilian sale for 1955 as the first series CJ-5. Production of the M38A1 ended in 1971. This was the start of the "round nosed" Jeep era (which lasted into the early 1980's).  MPC produced a kit of the M38A1 with the Bantam-produced 1/4 ton trailer, having among other features the Jeep "Hurricane" 4cyl F-head engine.  (An F-head engine has its intake valves and manifolding in the cylinder head (OHV style), while the exhaust valves and manifold are in the block).  This was done to give more power to the-then long-in-the-tooth Willys Whippet-originated flathead 4 cylinder engine which first saw production in 1925, and carried out to the end of Jeep Universal production (The Jeep "Universal" was the early postwar CJ-2A carried over in production into the early 1960's), and the Hurricane F-head 4 was installed in that older CJ-2A bodywork which required a taller grille, hood and cowling, that becoming the Jeep CJ-3.

 

I had to wade through all of this information on line and in books on Jeep 4X4's back in the fall of 2002 when I was assigned to develop an M38A1 Jeep for the Johnny Lightning "Military Muscle" 1/64 scale series--and given the tradition of accuracy at Johnny Lightning AND the expectations of Chrysler's Jeep Division, I had to make sure that even MPC had done their work correctly on the M38A1, as well as to ensure that we could produce that as the civilian CJ-5.  Now there is a good bit more information out there than I had at my fingertips in late 2002/early 2003.  At that time, the best information I could find referred to M38A1 production starting in 1954, and the CJ-5 being offered beginning in 1955.

 

As an aside here:  MPC produced their M38A1 Jeep as "Daisy's Jeep" from "Dukes of Hazzard", but it was seriously inaccurate.  "Daisy" drove an AMC-built CJ, which had a longer chassis and body, as AMC did that when they acquired Jeep from the Kaiser Corporation in 1969--adapting Jeep to AMC's 7-main bearing inline 6-cyl engine a couple of years later, thus putting the old Whippet-based 4-cylinder engine out to pasture after a run of more than 45 years--probably a record run for any automobile engine design! 

 

Art



#76 Art Anderson

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 07:24 AM

Art, you got me thinking about that kit, had to dig it out and do some comaprisons to 1:1 Willys MB and Ford GPW Jeeps jsut to see how it really stacks up. Going from how the kit itself is made, I will have to say that it is much closer to the Ford version as far as a WW2 Jeep goes, mainly from the frame design. The front crossmember is the main difference. The Willys used a large tubular crossmember, the Ford has an inverted U channel crossmember. The kit has a Ford style crossmember. The grille is also a Ford item which was adopted on the Willys after about 1942. The rest of the body tub it straight up post WW2 Willys CJ2, though.

Easy to understand, as Ford built more Jeeps in WW-II than Willys did.

 

Art



#77 crowe-t

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 09:27 AM

The M-38 was a "re-militarizing" of the CJ-2a in 1950, in answer to the need of the US Army for newly produced Jeeps--the Army having to scour depot's of abandoned MB Jeeps left behind on several islands in the Pacific at the end of WW-II--and MB's were wearing out rapidly.  Bear in mind that combat in Korea ended in July 1953, while the "Korean War Era" as regards the US Military encompasses virtually the entire decade of the 1950's.  I believe the vast majority of Jeeps used in Korea were either refurbished MB's or M-38's.  However, the need for more new Jeeps was even larger in Europe, with the US recognizing that there was a "Cold War" crisis there, beginning with the Berlin Blockade by the USSR which began in 1948, ending in late summer 1950.

 

The M38A1 entered production in 1952, and was first produced for the US Army, and offered for civilian sale for 1955 as the first series CJ-5. Production of the M38A1 ended in 1971. This was the start of the "round nosed" Jeep era (which lasted into the early 1980's).  MPC produced a kit of the M38A1 with the Bantam-produced 1/4 ton trailer, having among other features the Jeep "Hurricane" 4cyl F-head engine.  (An F-head engine has its intake valves and manifolding in the cylinder head (OHV style), while the exhaust valves and manifold are in the block).  This was done to give more power to the-then long-in-the-tooth Willys Whippet-originated flathead 4 cylinder engine which first saw production in 1925, and carried out to the end of Jeep Universal production (The Jeep "Universal" was the early postwar CJ-2A carried over in production into the early 1960's), and the Hurricane F-head 4 was installed in that older CJ-2A bodywork which required a taller grille, hood and cowling, that becoming the Jeep CJ-3.

 

I had to wade through all of this information on line and in books on Jeep 4X4's back in the fall of 2002 when I was assigned to develop an M38A1 Jeep for the Johnny Lightning "Military Muscle" 1/64 scale series--and given the tradition of accuracy at Johnny Lightning AND the expectations of Chrysler's Jeep Division, I had to make sure that even MPC had done their work correctly on the M38A1, as well as to ensure that we could produce that as the civilian CJ-5.  Now there is a good bit more information out there than I had at my fingertips in late 2002/early 2003.  At that time, the best information I could find referred to M38A1 production starting in 1954, and the CJ-5 being offered beginning in 1955.

 

As an aside here:  MPC produced their M38A1 Jeep as "Daisy's Jeep" from "Dukes of Hazzard", but it was seriously inaccurate.  "Daisy" drove an AMC-built CJ, which had a longer chassis and body, as AMC did that when they acquired Jeep from the Kaiser Corporation in 1969--adapting Jeep to AMC's 7-main bearing inline 6-cyl engine a couple of years later, thus putting the old Whippet-based 4-cylinder engine out to pasture after a run of more than 45 years--probably a record run for any automobile engine design! 

 

Art

 

Art,  Thanks for the detailed explanation.  So it seems that some M38A1's did make it to Korea during the end of the war according to your explanation above.

 

I just finished watching all 11 seasons of the TV show MASH.  It seems the Jeeps used were the earlier M38's and I'm sure some other early models.

 

At the start of season 4, there is a 1 hour episode, 'Welcome To Korea', which introduces the character, BJ Hunnicut and the 2nd episode, 'Change Of Command', which introduces Colonel Potter's character.

 

In both of these episodes an M38A1 is used.  It could possibly be a CJ-5 converted for the show.  

 

I found this odd that these are the only 2 episodes that had an M38A1.  All the rest have an M38 or some earlier Jeep.

 

Mike.


Edited by crowe-t, 15 March 2015 - 09:29 AM.