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So What does Revell Have up Their Sleeves?


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#221 niteowl7710

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:07 AM

 

We have that discussion a lot over on the HAMB.  It's a rare man, indeed, who can do it all and do it well.  Almost everyone has to pay someone else to do at least a portion of the job.  Glad to hear you're not one of them.  <_<

 

Yep, Dean...really biting my tongue here.

 

 

You both know exactly what I meant by that, so stop your mock indignation. :rolleyes:

 

But then again the cars I've owned that were "classic" enough to need work, I have done myself, or bartered out to get the work done.  I don't consider getting beer, having a BBQ and later helping someone move restoring with my checkbook.

 

I used my debit card at the grocery store... <_<



#222 Brett Barrow

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 11:45 AM

 

Not the impression I meant to give.  I only got confused earlier 'cause you're credible enough that I've been taking you at your word.

It wasn't you or anyone in particular that gave me that impression.  Just thought about how I must come across sometimes.  I don't mean to be a know-it-all, but if I don't know what I'm talking about, I will usually just not say anything.  And I forget sometimes that, like I mentioned before, "Revell" to me means the current ownership and folks in charge.  A lot of people hear "Revell" and think of Venice, CA-era Revell, or Revell-Monogram of the 90's and early 2000's, to me it's just post-Hobbico Revell, so when I say "Revell has been doing a good job", and someone responds, "well, in 1993 they did this", or "in 2001 they did this", or "in 1965 they did this", inside I'm screaming "I'm not talking about that Revell!"  It's easy with AMT because I can say "Round 2" and everybody knows who I mean. 



#223 bbowser

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:02 PM

Keep on chiming in Brett!  I love learning more about the business end of this hobby.  There's always a reason (maybe not always a good one) why we get what we get.



#224 drball

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:17 PM

 

I know YOU meant it that way.  But your post #203 does make the point on age and taste.  At the 2011 IHOBBY Expo (Revell and Round 2) and the recent Ferrari Expo (Revell only), the following points stick in my mind:

 

  • 50,000 units sold to BREAK EVEN (that includes variations).
  • There are less R&D dollars today than even five years ago and the review/approval process more complex.
  • The manufacturers are not as friendly as they were in the halcyon days.
  • Die casts do dig into the market, particularly for more current kits.  This may change as the costs of the metals for die cast is getting pricier than the cost of styrene.
  • Promo type/snap kits are very popular and a way to hopefully introduce new modelers (and if you look at Aoshima/Fujimi, a lot of their models are curbside. 
  • Licensing continues to be more and more of a big deal. 
  • The manufacturers cannot afford too many “flops”
  • They do a large and varied amount of market analysis through surveys, attending events, trolling message boards, interacting with distributors, etc.
  • The big-box stores were a mixed blessing.  Yes, you could get large orders but at a bigger discount and what they wanted you to produce.

 

As a business person I can understand a lot of the above.  I just retired last week, but during my career, reviewing projects and benefits and going through the trap line to get go-ahead sometimes took months.  And I am not just talking multi-million dollar projects.  And please don’t get into the MBA thing.  I have an MBA as well, but, in my experiences, there are a lot of morons that also carry that title.  But, if you are betting a company on investments, as new models would be, there is a lot of sweat and agony going on.

 

As a modeler, I think that STINKS, especially when some of the models I would like to see don’t appear.  But, at least some group of modelers gets to enjoy new issues.  I keep hearing raves about the 50 Oldsmobile and 57 Fords and that they are selling quite well.   That’s great for that group.  I hope the next set of releases will have something more for me.

 

To piggy back on Gerry's comments, in some cases you also have to deal with the financiers to provide the monies needed to fund the capital costs of the tooling.  The business case has to be made with more detail and a strong estimated ROI than ever to get the money needed.



#225 Tom Geiger

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:31 PM

It wasn't you or anyone in particular that gave me that impression.  Just thought about how I must come across sometimes.  I don't mean to be a know-it-all, but if I don't know what I'm talking about, I will usually just not say anything.  And I forget sometimes that, like I mentioned before, "Revell" to me means the current ownership and folks in charge.  A lot of people hear "Revell" and think of Venice, CA-era Revell, or Revell-Monogram of the 90's and early 2000's, to me it's just post-Hobbico Revell, so when I say "Revell has been doing a good job", and someone responds, "well, in 1993 they did this", or "in 2001 they did this", or "in 1965 they did this", inside I'm screaming "I'm not talking about that Revell!"  It's easy with AMT because I can say "Round 2" and everybody knows who I mean. 

 

I agree!  Few people in this hobby have the business credentials to understand the dynamics of the business, nor understand the 'changing of the guard' in the companies, and how things have been done very differently under different management. In short, the companies of today are completely different personnel, ,management and ownership than those that produced much of the tooling we love to complain about.

 

What drives me absolutely nutz is a post by a numbnutt  complaining that the model companies don't know what they're doing because they haven't produced a kit of his 1966  (pick any car) 4 door sedan.  Now that car is readily available in resin but he's not ponying up the $50.  He will only buy one copy of this kit once it is on close out at Odd Lots for $10.  I just love these guys!



#226 Danno

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:18 PM

 

I agree!  Few people in this hobby have the business credentials to understand the dynamics of the business, nor understand the 'changing of the guard' in the companies, and how things have been done very differently under different management. In short, the companies of today are completely different personnel, ,management and ownership than those that produced much of the tooling we love to complain about.

 

What drives me absolutely nutz is a post by a numbnutt  complaining that the model companies don't know what they're doing because they haven't produced a kit of his 1966  (pick any car) 4 door sedan.  Now that car is readily available in resin but he's not ponying up the $50.  He will only buy one copy of this kit once it is on close out at Odd Lots for $10.  I just love these guys!

 

 

Amen, Brother Tom.



#227 Gluhead

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:38 PM

You both know exactly what I meant by that, so stop your mock indignation. :rolleyes:

 

But then again the cars I've owned that were "classic" enough to need work, I have done myself, or bartered out to get the work done.  I don't consider getting beer, having a BBQ and later helping someone move restoring with my checkbook.

 

I used my debit card at the grocery store... <_<

Mine wasn't mock indignation. It was a sincere desire to resist saying something about how completely ignorant you'd made yourself sound. I don't think you "get it" even a fraction as well as you think you do, but I'm not here to bash you, so I bit my tongue.



#228 Eshaver

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:50 PM

Offended me, too.  But I wasn't going to say anything ... just gonna smack the carp out of you next time I see you.  Then you can go tell all your snot-nosed friends that an old coger from AARP kicked your pattootie all the way to Perryville!
 
:lol:


This is liable to get deleted , but here goes . In Philippian's III there is a proverb . I try hard at my advanced age to adhere to it too. Loosely translated , it means Thou shalt not sweat the small "STUFF ' .......

Hey, a good build is a good build regardless, so chill !

#229 Modelbuilder Mark

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:23 PM

No money in it. Not enough, anyway <_<.  

 

BUT!!!....   There is that unseen, unmeasurable "FUTURE" dollar.  Why not use it as another, chea for them, outlet to promote their products to youth.  This goes back to my not understanding why a tire company, ANY tire company, would not be willing to let model companies use their names. 

 

however, since it is "unmeasurable", and public companies need to be able to  measure anything they do to show the shareholders, it does not mean much I guess.



#230 Deano

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:34 PM

 

 

 

You both know exactly what I meant by that, so stop your mock indignation. :rolleyes:

 

But then again the cars I've owned that were "classic" enough to need work, I have done myself, or bartered out to get the work done.  I don't consider getting beer, having a BBQ and later helping someone move restoring with my checkbook.

 

I used my debit card at the grocery store... <_<

 

No indignation, mock nor otherwise, just the observation that I've read that posturing before and it was 'smoke blowing' there too.  BTW, let me know where I can get my 53 Plymouth painted for BBQ and a case of Bud, 'round here it takes a pretty decent sized checkbook for those of us who don't measure up to your standard.



#231 Exotics_Builder

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 04:38 AM

 

I know YOU meant it that way.  But your post #203 does make the point on age and taste.  At the 2011 IHOBBY Expo (Revell and Round 2) and the recent Ferrari Expo (Revell only), the following points stick in my mind:

 

  • 50,000 units sold to BREAK EVEN (that includes variations).
  • There are less R&D dollars today than even five years ago and the review/approval process more complex.
  • The manufacturers are not as friendly as they were in the halcyon days.
  • Die casts do dig into the market, particularly for more current kits.  This may change as the costs of the metals for die cast is getting pricier than the cost of styrene.
  • Promo type/snap kits are very popular and a way to hopefully introduce new modelers (and if you look at Aoshima/Fujimi, a lot of their models are curbside. 
  • Licensing continues to be more and more of a big deal. 
  • The manufacturers cannot afford too many “flops”
  • They do a large and varied amount of market analysis through surveys, attending events, trolling message boards, interacting with distributors, etc.
  • The big-box stores were a mixed blessing.  Yes, you could get large orders but at a bigger discount and what they wanted you to produce.

 

As a business person I can understand a lot of the above.  I just retired last week, but during my career, reviewing projects and benefits and going through the trap line to get go-ahead sometimes took months.  And I am not just talking multi-million dollar projects.  And please don’t get into the MBA thing.  I have an MBA as well, but, in my experiences, there are a lot of morons that also carry that title.  But, if you are betting a company on investments, as new models would be, there is a lot of sweat and agony going on.

 

As a modeler, I think that STINKS, especially when some of the models I would like to see don’t appear.  But, at least some group of modelers gets to enjoy new issues.  I keep hearing raves about the 50 Oldsmobile and 57 Fords and that they are selling quite well.   That’s great for that group.  I hope the next set of releases will have something more for me.

 

 

To be concise:

  • The manufacturers are not as friendly as they were in the halcyon days.

 

This meant the auto, tire, related industry.  It also includes some racing teams which apparently want big dollars to license their car.  One noted exception brought up at the 2011 IHOBBY was Steve Kinser being very supportive.

 

Gerry



#232 Brett Barrow

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:57 AM

 

BUT!!!....   There is that unseen, unmeasurable "FUTURE" dollar.  Why not use it as another, chea for them, outlet to promote their products to youth.  This goes back to my not understanding why a tire company, ANY tire company, would not be willing to let model companies use their names. 

 

however, since it is "unmeasurable", and public companies need to be able to  measure anything they do to show the shareholders, it does not mean much I guess.

To be specific to tire companies, one reason they don't license model tires is due to liability risks.  If little Jimmy chokes on a model kit wheel and tire with a big ol' "Goodyear" stamped on the side, and the parents decide to sue somebody they could conceivably go after Goodyear, but so far no one ever has sued a licensor over a licensed toy or model part that I've heard about.  The fear of choking lawsuits is the reason GM quit licensing HO scale replica cars and trucks and some larger N scale trucks - there's a test that they do, there are two tubes (I forget the exact diameters) , if the item can't fit into the larger one, it's OK, it's big enough that a child can't swallow it.  If it passes through the smaller one, it's OK, it's small enough that a child could swallow it cleanly and it can pass through their system.  If it fits into the larger one, but not into the smaller one, it's a no-go.  I suspect that model car tires fall into that no-go zone, and that might be a reason that Revell and others (like Tamiya) don't bother with licensing them.  I think Round 2 has worked out a blanket deal with the tire companies that combines all of their products, like die-casts and slot cars, so they're able to spread the licensing costs out over more products, that's why they offer Firestone and Goodyear licensed tires. 

 

And licensing isn't the money grab it appears to be at first glance - it's a neccessary evil in this day, and many companies donate any proceeds from licensing to charities, most just charge whatever it takes to hire the lawyers and file the paperwork.  Most of the 1:1 companies use a licensing firm anyway, they don't even get any of the money*, and if they did it'd be chump change to them anyway.  Licensing is needed to protect a company's intellectual property and trademarks.  If you allow one product to be made with your trademark on it, and you don't license it, you have to let everybody and anybody use that trademark, including competitors and counterfeiters.  That means that if, for example, Goodyear lets a model company use it's tradmark on a tire, and doesn't charge, then what's to stop some Chinese tire company from making fake Goodyear tires?  It all stems from a landmark court case involving Chinese counterfeit brake pads back around the turn of the century.

 

We're constantly bombarded with media from cradle to the grave these days. If the constant stream of advertisements on TV, internet, radio, magazines and newspapers, etc...  hasn't done the trick, I don't think a Goodyear tire on a model car or die-cast toy is really going to influence those children into becoming future Goodyear customers when they grow up. 

 

*in fact they're paying the licensing firms to handle it for them.  But they're protecting their trademarks, and that's what's valuable to them. 


Edited by Brett Barrow, 10 April 2013 - 08:16 AM.


#233 Brett Barrow

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:03 AM

Anyway, to get back on topic, I went back and looked at recent new release announcements and I've decided to revise my list of predictions for May's "fall" announcements.  Again, this is totally without any inside knowledge.

 

At least one Corvette reissue (I'm leaning towards the 58/59)

At least two Foose editions (is the Foose 64 Impala "official" yet?)

One station wagon (either a reissue or possible modified new tooling - I'd like to see something on the 57 Ford - a Ranch Wagon would be my personal favorite, but a Country Squire would please a few folks, too.  On the tri-five front, I'd flip for a 57 Chevy Handyman or 55 and 57 Nomads) 

One modified variant of a 60's muscle car. 

One modified variant of a current muscle car.

At least one Tom Daniel kit.

At least one show car. (I'm leaning Lil' Coffin or Lil' T/Boomer Bucket/Street T) 

A possible totally 100% new-tool kit (but new tool announcements are more likely to happen at iHobby)

At least one drag racer reissued, possibly with a decal scheme they've never offered before.

One older truck reissue (I'm leaning 64 Chevy Fleetside) 

Another 70's van, these are hot right now.

At least one tri-five Chevy (is the 57 'vert "official" yet?)  

Revell-Germany's new-tool VW Beetle in a Revell US box.  (The new-tool Mini Cooper in US box is "official", right?) 

 

I'd like to see a 50 Olds Club Sedan (fastback).  

I'd like to see the F-Code 57 Ford Custom NASCAR special (I know it will happen, just not sure when)  

I'd like to see another issue of the Big Deuce 

 

-edit- a convertible version of something currently available as a hardtop

a hardtop version of something currently available as a convertible (I know, some of these are no-brainers!) 


Edited by Brett Barrow, 10 April 2013 - 10:01 AM.


#234 Rob Hall

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:18 AM

The '57 Chevy convertible, '64 Impala Foose and US rebox of the Mini were all announced in last year's 2013 announcements..old news.



#235 Brett Barrow

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:36 AM

The '57 Chevy convertible, '64 Impala Foose and US rebox of the Mini were all announced in last year's 2013 announcements..old news.

 

They could "reannounce" them just to remind y'all!  I knew they were going to happen, just wasn't sure if they were public knowledge yet.  The Foose Impala and Mini are out in June, still no official date on the 57 'vert though, but my latest list only runs through June.  Should have the new list soon, usually out by the middle of the month. Then I'll know what's coming in July.   



#236 Casey

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:00 AM

my latest list only runs through June.  Should have the new list soon, usually out by the middle of the month. Then I'll know what's coming in July.   

 

Is the '69 C.O.P.O Camaro on the list (insert Hop Sing joke here) yet? Revell's webstore says "late May."

 

Looking back at the 2012 Fall announcements from Revell http://www.modelcars...showtopic=58841 , it appears all 24 full-detail (i.e., SnapTite kits excluded) reissue/modified reissue kits made it through and are available now or will be in the next two months.

 

The 1/25 Revell Chevy Custom Van kit would make sense if they want to release another van, and the '93 Chevy S-10 would be an even better idea.  :)

 

Maybe another of the 1/25 Revell gasser kits? Austin, Henry J, or Anglia?

 

An official confirmation of the 1/16 Hawaiian F/C would be nice, too.



#237 Rob Hall

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:02 AM

I'd be interested in seeing what's on the latest release lists for May and June.



#238 Mr mopar

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:06 AM

SSP 1/16 Kenworth is coming out this year, got that right from the man himself. Ed sexton.

Edited by Mr mopar, 10 April 2013 - 10:08 AM.


#239 Brett Barrow

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:17 AM

 

Is the '69 C.O.P.O Camaro on the list (insert Hop Sing joke here) yet? Revell's webstore says "late May."

 

Yup, May it is, should be out along with the 5.0 Mustang notch, SSP Miss Deal, 77 Bandit Trans.. er, um...  "Firebird"  :D and the 55 Ford pro-mod.  Line-up could change, though, depending on what did or didn't make it onto the boat (which is probably on the high seas as we speak...)  I'd trust Hobby Shipper or whatever they call it, even though Tower is also part of Hobbico, they tend to put some really early and weird dates up (Tower might be putting the date they can start taking backorders, instead of an actual release date, or it could be the deadline they need to have a kit listed up on the site by.) 



#240 martinfan5

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:24 AM

Another van kit would be nice,  we know Round2 is doing another van kit towards the end of the year, I am guessing if Revell does a van kit, its going to be a Chevy?

 

I dont recall seeing that many van kits from them,  did they ever do anything other then the Chevy van?