118 replies to this topic

[Rob Hall]

Never seen the 'King Cobra' version... I have the original issue and the one from about 10 years ago (white car on the box). I wonder how the new issue differs..

[Darin Bastedo]

Small correction Brian. Kelsey Hayes made the Sunburst, not Halibrand.

Actually it was Halibrand, When Shelby had a supply problem with Dayton Wire wheels that he was originally going to use on the street cobras, he contacted Halibrand to use the competition pin-drive units on the street cars. Halibrand couldn't suppy as many of those as he required, so he contacted kelsey Hayes to get wheels. They agreed and Pete Brock Drew up the sunburst wheel design. Then Kelsey Hayes, having production issues them selves ironically subbed the contract out none other than Halibrand, thus if you look closely at a set of these wheels (which I did) you find Halibrand stamped on them.

[Cato]

Then Kelsey Hayes, having production issues them selves ironically subbed the contract out none other than Halibrand, thus if you look closely at a set of these wheels (which I did) you find Halibrand stamped on them.

Could you possibly post a photo of that Halibrand-marked wheel-showing the mark?

[Darin Bastedo]

Could you possibly post a photo of that Halibrand-marked wheel-showing the mark?

I'm not absolutely sure if i photo-documented it or not, but it certainly was there when I examined the wheel while researching the one I scratch-built. I know that I have a book that documents the story, I'm just not sure which one it is. I'll have to look through my reference to see if I can find the passage I'm thinking of. If you need Cobra reference photos, here are a few thousand...

http://public.fotki...._photos/cobras/

[Cato]

Don't need the reference shots but would appreciate that book reference.

[Greg Myers]

Don't need the reference shots but would appreciate that book reference.

Don't need the reference shots but would appreciate that book reference.

http://www.amazon.co..._res_rpli_alt_1

[Cato]

Don't need these either.
I have five of those and 30 years of study and hands-on, on the subject. Know how to search for reference. Never found the question raised or answered in the books and material I have.
Am hoping Darin can provide a page or quote a source for his information, beyond what he saw.

[RatRod]

Those kidney bean wheels are also included in the AMT competition parts pack conglomeration kit that had the chrome T roadster frame, drag strip accessories, and a sprue of chrome wheels.

[GirchyGirchy]

Historic Racing Miniatures also makes Halibrand Kidney Beans....a couple of versions, not sure of the differences though.

Kit's probably still worth picking up IMO, for the tires and velocity stacks. Disappointing about the wheels though.

[Darin Bastedo]

Don't need these either.
I have five of those and 30 years of study and hands-on, on the subject. Know how to search for reference. Never found the question raised or answered in the books and material I have.
Am hoping Darin can provide a page or quote a source for his information, beyond what he saw.

I'll look through my books this weekend and see what I can dig up.

[Cato]

I'll look through my books this weekend and see what I can dig up.

Thanks Darin but don't kill yourself. I have two SAAC World Registries ('87 and '97)-total about 1900 pages of fact, and a cursory examination of them failed to produce the KH / Halibrand connection.

I've had a web conversation with the SAAC Registrar for coil-spring cars and he has seen no evidence of that in the car's history.

I'm sure you saw what you say you saw, but the wheel in question may have been something other than supposed. For only ~958 cars total, Cobra history and fact is more diverse and murky than the thousands of owners the marquee has had. There are extremely few 'correct-like-the-day-born' Cobras anymore.

[Darin Bastedo]

Thanks Darin but don't kill yourself. I have two SAAC World Registries ('87 and '97)-total about 1900 pages of fact, and a cursory examination of them failed to produce the KH / Halibrand connection.

I've had a web conversation with the SAAC Registrar for coil-spring cars and he has seen no evidence of that in the car's history.

I'm sure you saw what you say you saw, but the wheel in question may have been something other than supposed. For only ~958 cars total, Cobra history and fact is more diverse and murky than the thousands of owners the marquee has had. There are extremely few 'correct-like-the-day-born' Cobras anymore.

If you say so, I won't bother then. I have neither the time or energy to argue the point. It matters not at all, as on a model it doesn't matter who made the original.

[Darin Bastedo]

Don't need the reference shots but would appreciate that book reference.

I found it "Shelby American Cobra / Mustang Guide" 1987 Page 62.

"Shelby wanted to use wire wheels but could not find a supplier that could build a wheel to meet his specifications, and the demands of the car. He Tried Dayton wire wheel company, and Harvey aluminium, among others - all to no avail. In desparation, Pete Brock designed the 10-spoke 'sunburst wheels' They were cast in aluminium by Halibrand, were pin drive, and were 71/2" wide by 15"."

In none of my other references does it say that Kelsey Hayes made them, nor does it make sense for them to have bothered with such a small contract, as they were a huge OEM manufacturer. They did however produce the 10-spoke wheels for the Shelby Mustangs as well as Shelby's line of custom wheels.

[Greg Myers]

. . . and Darin comes through, thanks buddy. Too bad Round @ dropped the ball with their "new" wheel addition. Count me out.

[Darin Bastedo]

. . . and Darin comes through, thanks buddy. Too bad Round @ dropped the ball with their "new" wheel addition. Count me out.

Now don't count it out yet. The AMT 289 cobra can be built into a very nice model. To illustrate my point here is an old built up I picked up a couple of years ago at a swap meet. this is an excellent example of how models were built in the 1960's Aside from some scratch-built fender flares and some 60's era engine detailing this is box stock. the Kidney bean wheels are aren't in the current kit but are available in resin or in AMT's recent "Part Pack" with the allison engine.

[Greg Myers]

You are so right and your example proves it, however having the proverbial closet full of them, I wont need another soon. Makes one wonder why I would yearn for a new release from someone ( AM ).

Edited by Greg Myers, 25 November 2012 - 06:22 AM.

[Greg Myers]

That reminds me, does anyone know where I can get one of those transkits for the Super Slug (AKA, Super Daytona Cobra) some one had out long ago ?

Edited by Greg Myers, 25 November 2012 - 06:24 AM.

[Darin Bastedo]

That reminds me, does anyone know where I can get one of those transkits for the Super Slug (AKA, Super Daytona Cobra) some one had out long ago ?

http://www.hiroboy.c...45#.ULJXkIfoRDU

[Cato]

I found it "Shelby American Cobra / Mustang Guide" 1987 Page 62.

In none of my other references does it say that Kelsey Hayes made them, nor does it make sense for them to have bothered with such a small contract, as they were a huge OEM manufacturer. They did however produce the 10-spoke wheels for the Shelby Mustangs as well as Shelby's line of custom wheels.

Thanks Darin, great find. I will have to go into my book stash to see if I have that.
Just a note about accuracy; if that book was authored by Wally Wyss, that may not be a correct statement. He has come under a great deal of criticism of late among original owners for his assertions and misstatement of facts. Also for writing books based on the revelations of others. All without consulting the basic 'bible', the SAAC Registry.

Here is the text of Ned Scudder's response to my Sunburst casting question:
"Reports from the day said Shelby was having difficulty getting enough Halibrand wheels to supply the 427 cars, due to production delays, etc. And the Halibrands were sufficiently expensive that, like Bruce mentioned earlier, Shelby figured their own wheels would cost less in the long run. It is my belief that Kelsey Hays manufactured all of the sunbursts, and I have never heard of Halibrand making additional copies. Reproductions have more recently been made by several different people".-Ned Scudder, SAAC Registrar.
You are correct about KH being a huge OEM supplier but they were no stranger to supplying wheels for small run musclecars and specialty cars like Avanti.
Do not take this as a 'who's right or wrong' piss contest. It's not my intention to disprove your statement. Indeed, I'd be grateful if you've corrected a long-standing belief I've gleaned from my own research.
I know all of this matters little to most modelers. I think of it as a service that you and I uncover or confirm a bit of Cobra history for those seriously involved in the Cobra-as we both are.
I will attempt to contact Pete Brock which should provide a definitive solution to the question.

[Darin Bastedo]

Cato, I would welcome more info on this. If the reference I have is incorrect I of course want the correct info. I have seen some books with inaccurate info on cobra's as well so a definitive answer would be great, and I would imagine that Pete would have that answer.