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Cheap craft paints


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#41 TheGrandfatherHobbies

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:07 PM

40 ford painted with cheap acryl pearl white and flat red.
and for the record i am aware i wasnt called out, just thought id share
also my first time using them, ive always used spray cans when it came to bodiers....and i have to say im liking the cheap acryls alot. just gotta thin em good.

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Edited by TheGrandfatherHobbies, 30 September 2012 - 07:10 PM.


#42 MAGNUM4342

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:18 PM

Nice. Loving the red/white combo and the killer bed planks.

#43 TheGrandfatherHobbies

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:23 PM

the bed is a decal that came with the kit. ty magnum very much

#44 CadillacPat

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:05 AM

There it is from about 13 years ago. It wasn't just the finished texture of these CHEAP CRAFT PAINTS like Apple Barrel and Folk Art that I knew could be better, but the nightmare of proper thinning and the added dificulty of cleaning up afterwards of waterbased paints



Well you might try TODAYS paints....BUT YOU DON"T WANT TO !


Try and stay on topic.
The subject is Cheap Craft Paints not acrylics. I don't use or like either.
I use TODAY's PAINTS, I use House Of Kolor

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#45 CadillacPat

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:12 AM

Cadalliac Pat, the last thing I'm going to say on here to you is plain and simple. This has nothing to do with our work or how experienced we are or our ability to paint a kit. You would think after all the arguments you get in on this forum that maybe you would sit back and think, Wow maybe I am just too conceited and never wrong and that my ego is through the roof. I could see if it was just one or two people, but the list you mentioned here is just way too big. The only thing from the above mentioned I can come up with is your not a people person or someone I care to continue speaking with from this point forward. So from this point forward this conversation is over. To the rest of the people on this forum I'm sorry Cadalliac Pat had to ruin this post. I apologize to you for him and will ignore him to refrain from any further types of arguments of this nature with any questions I may ask. Thanks to everyone else for your answers and willingness to help the new guy. Pat one last thing, perhaps you should take some lessons from Virgil as hes one of the nicest, most caring guys Ive met in the model building hobby on any of these sites and is more then willing to answer any question asked by anyone. End of discussion.


Hooter, I would not take the time to argue with an anonymous person over the internet.
If you consider all discussions here "arguments" then why would you even participate.
You act like a little kid and it looks like you have a child or two here to play with.

Just use SPRAY CANS Hooter. It will be less complicated for you

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#46 CadillacPat

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 03:01 AM

Cadalliac Pat, the last thing I'm going to say on here to you is plain and simple. This has nothing to do with our work or how experienced we are or our ability to paint a kit. You would think after all the arguments you get in on this forum that maybe you would sit back and think, Wow maybe I am just too conceited and never wrong and that my ego is through the roof. I could see if it was just one or two people, but the list you mentioned here is just way too big.
REALLY, Only you and two others, man, that is a huge list!!!!!!!!!!!
The only thing from the above mentioned I can come up with is your not a people person
Oh I like people alright, some, mostly chics. Dogs are much more trustworthy than some wackos that troll and live on the Internet.
or someone I care to continue speaking with from this point forward.
Okay, so long, no need for you to say anything else.
So from this point forward this conversation is over. To the rest of the people on this forum I'm sorry Cadalliac Pat had to ruin this post. I apologize to you for him and will ignore him to refrain from any further types of arguments of this nature with any questions I may ask. Thanks to everyone else for your answers and willingness to help the new guy. Pat one last thing, perhaps you should take some lessons from Virgil as hes one of the nicest, most caring guys Ive met in the model building hobby on any of these sites and is more then willing to answer any question asked by anyone.
I answered the questions as I have done many times before. You just can't handle the truth.
Perhaps Virgil can explain things to you.
End of discussion.

Hooter, you have 71 posts and you talk like you run the place. I'm quite sure you spend a lot ofc time on the Internet. Good Luck with your problems.


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#47 TheGrandfatherHobbies

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 06:13 AM

ok can i just say this topic has gotten OUT OF CONTROL. the poor guy just wanted to know if he COULD use the paints. not if they were the best method. lets drop this and a moderator needs to delete this post, as far as im concerned your all a bunch of 12 yr olds fighting over whos the better painter. THERE MODELS PEOPLE HAVE FUN FOR GODS SAKES

#48 Psychographic

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:06 AM

I decided to do some experimenting with the cheap acrylic craft paint as a base for my last paint job. I will explain my process and you can decide if it works.

 

Prep body and prime with grey lacquer primer (it's a house brand from my supply house and is similar to Dupont 131 filling primer).

Sand with 600, clean and hit with a tack rag.

 

PB140871.jpg

 

Dust coat of  the cheap acrylic (thinned with hot tap water), hit with the hairdrier to dry.

The next coats can go on heavier.

Repeat process until coverage is even.

 

Other than a problem I had with my mixing cup, this paint layed down smooth, better than most enamels, lacquers or urethane. Also before moving on, I applied tape to it several times as I was afraid the craft paint wouldn't bite into the primer. It held fine although I only waited about 5 minutes for it to dry, I even yanked the tape off trying to get the paint to lift. It wouldn't.

 

PB160880.jpg

 

My mid coat was also the cheapest I could find, a 99 cent bottle of nail polish in the exact shade of the cheap craft paint only in pearl.

After two coats to acheive even coverage, it was set aside for a few hours.

 

PB170887.jpg

 

The final step was a couple of coats of clear urethane.

 

As this body is way too fragile, it won't get color sanded and buffed.

 

I don't see a problem using the Cheap Craft Paint,  nor mismatching paints. You just have to adapt to your situation, find out what you can and can't work with and use what you are happy and capable of.

 

Other than primer and clear and thinner, this paint job cost  $2,12 and I have paint left over.

 

So does cheap paint work, you decide.

 

PB180891.jpg


Edited by Psychographic, 02 December 2012 - 08:04 AM.


#49 CadillacPat

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 09:11 AM

Psych it's hard to tell from your pics just how smooth your cheap acrylic paint came out,

But you did a nice job, as I showed in the pics I also posted.

But,

The effort put forth to use these cheap acrylic paints is far more than user friendly Enamels and even cheap aerosols.

Any experienced AirBrusher can get good results using anything, even cheap craft paints, but those new to AirBrushing can get the same results, even better, and much faster, using any cheap aerosol through his airbrush.

 

When I asked the rantersa in this thread to post their proven work with cheap craft paints you are the only one who actually did so

 

Now just think what you can do with other more reliable, more user friendly paints that don't even cost more.

 

I think what people miss is just how many Hobbyists quit due to the quality of first few paint jobs.

If people get advice on other more user friendly paints they will have a beter shot at that first paintjob.

Then they can move on like you and I who can paint using anything, even cheap craft paints.



#50 Psychographic

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 10:38 AM

Pat,

 

 I agree and disagree with some of your statements and maybe you could clear some things up for me.

 

 "Now just think what you can do with other more reliable, more user friendly paints that don't even cost more.

 

I know you are a HOK guy, a great product, but how can you compare a qt. of candy at $60-80, or 1oz. jars at $8 (not including reducers and catalyst), to $2.12 of Cheap Craft Paint (now known as CCP) and Nail Polish (NP)for enough to paint a model? Maybe what I'm missing is, are there two paints available from HOK? Is one a lacquer for the hobbiest and then the urethane for the automotive world, or is there just one line and people are thinning it with lacquer and getting away with it? I have to admit, the HOK line is one I've never messed with altering their product other than clearing it with another brand, so if other hardeners, reducers, thinners will work, I have no knowledge. But then again, even if you only need lacquer thinner to cut it, it's still much more expensive percentage wise than to go CCP/ NP.

 

I did buy a bunch of HOK at NNL East, but have yet to even open them. they were 1 oz. jars, marked down 50% and I paid $4 or 5 each. Even at this price, CCP is still much cheaper.

 

As for ease on a first time AB'er, yes the CCP is harder to spray due to the amount you have to thin it and the long amount of time for the water to flash off. I equate this to over thinning an enamel on a cold day and telling a newcomer, have at it.

 

I think the average person who has taken the time to learn to use an airbrush and understand the properties of how the paint they are using, could in a matter of minutes get the hang of using CCP. I certainly didn't find it harder to spray, just different.

 

As for reliable, who can say what is reliable and what is not in the dark magic of painting? Years ago, my S-10 was painted HOK Kandy Pink over Orion Silver, it failed miserably. after 8 months there was spots showing almost bare silver.

 

"The effort put forth to use these cheap acrylic paints is far more than user friendly Enamels and even cheap aerosols".

 

I actually found this method to be one of the easiest I've used yet to paint a model. The one thing I did like much better, the speed. If you use a hairdrier, it's dry almost immediately. The other thing I noticed, it goes on very thin and you lose very little detail. Clean up was a breeze, but then again after using an AB for as long as I have, I find it rediculous when people complain about cleaning one.  A note to anyone reading this, if you spray water through your AB/Spraygun, always flush the water out with a little lacquer thinner.

 

The other benefit to CCP/NP is it's availability.

 

I will definitely be using this method again in the future.


Edited by Psychographic, 02 December 2012 - 11:46 AM.


#51 CadillacPat

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:43 PM

Pat,

 

 I agree and disagree with some of your statements and maybe you could clear some things up for me.

Sure Psych, you sound like a reasonable guy.

And I also disagree on a few of your answers.

Here we go,

 

 "Now just think what you can do with other more reliable, more user friendly paints that don't even cost more.

 

I know you are a HOK guy, a great product, but how can you compare a qt. of candy at $60-80, or 1oz. jars at $8 (not including reducers and catalyst), to $2.12 of Cheap Craft Paint (now known as CCP) and Nail Polish (NP)for enough to paint a model?

Okay, well you're way off on HOK prices, but there's more.

Actual prices for quarts of HOK Candy are much less than you stated,

But,

Why would anyone suggest for modelers on this site to ever buy a quart of Candy?  Most of these guys paint far less frequently than the need for quarts so answers about paint, coverage and cost neds to be factored into the amounts they can buy for just one kit.

Single ounces of OK by the 4 oz. botle work out to only $3 per and considering the richness of HK you can cut it twice, making ounces cost only a Buck and a few pennies for Reducer.  So, your $8 figure is about $7 off.

A lot of things come in to play when recommending paints to someone, especially novices, and those who answer posts need to realize that.

I even ansswered that several can pitch in together to buy quarts (like the HOK online Co-Op I created) driving ginal prices of HOK ounces down to around 35 cents.

Is it becoming clear now how cheap great automotive paints like HOK can actually be had for.  Then pile on the durability and ease of use and this is why I tell everyone they do not have to start at the bottom of the Paint Barrel.

They can start at the top making the possiblility of dissatisfication much less likely.

Lots of people quit Hobbies because their first attempts are a failure.  My online Tutorials and replies are directed to give serious minded Hobbyists a nudge in the right direction or to help them become better than they already are.

 

Maybe what I'm missing is, are there two paints available from HOK? Is one a lacquer for the hobbiest and then the urethane for the automotive world, or is there just one line and people are thinning it with lacquer and getting away with it? I have to admit, the HOK line is one I've never messed with altering their product other than clearing it with another brand, so if other hardeners, reducers, thinners will work, I have no knowledge. But then again, even if you only need lacquer thinner to cut it, it's still much more expensive percentage wise than to go CCP/ NP.

I don't know where you are getting your HOK info but in short NO.  HOK is a 2 part Automotive Urethane Enamel.

And, that whole thinning HOK with Lacquer thing is something I don't recommend.  Yes, people can get away with it, until it comes back to bite them in the middle of a fine paintjob.

I don't recommend novices to stray away from the HOK system.

 

I did buy a bunch of HOK at NNL East, but have yet to even open them. they were 1 oz. jars, marked down 50% and I paid $4 or 5 each. Even at this price, CCP is still much cheaper.

That's that old stuff from Black Gold out of Arlington Texas.

Good luck on what is really in those jars and even more good luck on their shelf life.  Always know your product.

Of course, as you say, CCP is cheaper, that is because it is a ---------  cheap craft paint!!!!!!! 

As for ease on a first time AB'er, yes the CCP is harder to spray due to the amount you have to thin it and the long amount of time for the water to flash off. I equate this to over thinning an enamel on a cold day and telling a newcomer, have at it.

Okay  read that but I don't know what it means.  I can't equate cheap craft paints with Enamels.

 

I think the average person who has taken the time to learn to use an airbrush and understand the properties of how the paint they are using, could in a matter of minutes get the hang of using CCP. I certainly didn't find it harder to spray, just different.

Now you're talking about experienced AirBrushers.

There is a big difference in experienced AirBrushers and guys who are asking for the first time.

Like I said above, experienced AirBrushers can bend the rules and cut corners, but, it's not a good idea to taeach new guys to start out that way.

 

As for reliable, who can say what is reliable and what is not in the dark magic of painting? Years ago, my S-10 was painted HOK Kandy Pink over Orion Silver, it failed miserably. after 8 months there was spots showing almost bare silver.

Man you lost me on that Dark Magic thing.

Well we all know that was not the HOK paint that failed but your Painter.

 

"The effort put forth to use these cheap acrylic paints is far more than user friendly Enamels and even cheap aerosols".

 

I actually found this method to be one of the easiest I've used yet to paint a model. The one thing I did like much better, the speed. If you use a hairdrier, it's dry almost immediately.

If you check out any of the AirBrushing Sites you will se time after time how new AirBrushers have such difficulty thinning water based paints.  Everything from plain water to Windex is used causing great confusion for them.  I try to always recommend products that are easy to use expecially for frst timers, so I stter them away from any craft paints.

 

The other thing I noticed, it goes on very thin and you lose very little detail. Clean up was a breeze, but then again after using an AB for as long as I have, I find it rediculous when people complain about cleaning one.  A note to anyone reading this, if you spray water through your AB/Spraygun, always flush the water out with a little lacquer thinner.

People who will complain about cleaning their AirBrsh zare the same people who will cut corners.

 

The other benefit to CCP/NP is it's availability.

Man they sell  cheap craft paints here in corner convenience stores,

 

I will definitely be using this method again in the future.

As I said Psych,

Experienced AirBrushers can make anything work using a mixture and varety of paint sytems.

But,

To start people off they need easy reliable steps to assure they will turn out a choice paintjob, and they need products that are more likely to produce good results than bad.



#52 Psychographic

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:22 PM

Thanks for clearing up my confusion on the lacquer thinner in the HOK. I thought it was strange to read that it was being thinned with it.

 

What do you pay a qt. and where are you getting it? Also where are you getting 4oz for $3? Can you buy the reducer and catalyst in small quantities also? I'm new back to modeling and don't have a large knowledge of  where to buy supplies, hence the qt. reference. As for what I bought at NNL, I don't have it handy, so I don't know where it came from, but thanks for the heads up.

 

 

I found your statement about the paint on my truck to be a bit arrogant, you don't know who painted the truck, nor their capabilities. HOK admitted a problem and reimbursed me for all the materials.  It wasn't the painter.

 

Have you ever sprayed enamel that's been over reduced in 40 degree weather? I f not try it and you will understand  the reference in regard to spraying CCP.

 

The Dark Magic was a bit of a joke, It refers to experimenting with different paints and their applications. Had no one done this to start, we would never have the candys and pearls we use now.

 

Also the point of my original post was not aimed at beginner airbrush, nor was the post from the Op. It seems you keep steering it in that direction and that might be the problem why you are having a hard time with other posters on here.



#53 CadillacPat

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 07:02 PM

Thanks for clearing up my confusion on the lacquer thinner in the HOK. I thought it was strange to read that it was being thinned with it.

 

What do you pay a qt. and where are you getting it? Also where are you getting 4oz for $3?

Please re read my reply,

I said that single ounce quantities from the 4 oz bottles works out to $3 per, meaning, if you will search you see that 4 oz botles of  HOK go for $12.

Can you buy the reducer and catalyst in small quantities also? I'm new back to modeling and don't have a large knowledge of  where to buy supplies, hence the qt. reference. As for what I bought at NNL, I don't have it handy, so I don't know where it came from, but thanks for the heads up.

 

 

I found your statement about the paint on my truck to be a bit arrogant, you don't know who painted the truck, nor their capabilities. HOK admitted a problem and reimbursed me for all the materials.  It wasn't the painter.

It doesn't matter.  As you asked before about reliability, HOK has more than 50- years of reliability. I'm sure they replaced your paint, their public relations works hard to satisfy customers.

I still say it was probably your painter.

 

 

Have you ever sprayed enamel that's been over reduced in 40 degree weather? I f not try it and you will understand  the reference in regard to spraying CCP.

Painting in 40 degre weather is not recommended if you want to give the customer his worth.

 

The Dark Magic was a bit of a joke, It refers to experimenting with different paints and their applications. Had no one done this to start, we would never have the candys and pearls we use now.

Okay, thought your Dark Magic was some kind of ethnic hair gel.

 

Also the point of my original post was not aimed at beginner airbrush, nor was the post from the Op. It seems you keep steering it in that direction and that might be the problem why you are having a hard time with other posters on here.

We are talking about both novice and experienced painters. 

Since you seem so interested in me, let me tell you that I have no problems with anyone here, perhaps you do.  I don't see these social forums as lonely hearts clubs but rather as gatherings of information and expertise.

And also unknown to yourself, some of those members you refer to have written and apologized for what they said,  since you are thinking about me.

Psych, this site is mostly intelligent reasonable guys with information to contribute, but don't let drama get in your way of enjoying it.

Just laugh at them.


Edited by CadillacPat, 02 December 2012 - 08:14 PM.


#54 Psychographic

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:21 AM

 

Thanks for clearing up my confusion on the lacquer thinner in the HOK. I thought it was strange to read that it was being thinned with it.

 

What do you pay a qt. and where are you getting it? Also where are you getting 4oz for $3?

Please re read my reply,

I said that single ounce quantities from the 4 oz bottles works out to $3 per, meaning, if you will search you see that 4 oz botles of  HOK go for $12. 

So then it's not cheaper than CCP, also you' did not answer the question where do you buy your qts and how much do you pay?

Can you buy the reducer and catalyst in small quantities also? I'm new back to modeling and don't have a large knowledge of  where to buy supplies, hence the qt. reference. As for what I bought at NNL, I don't have it handy, so I don't know where it came from, but thanks for the heads up.

 

 

I found your statement about the paint on my truck to be a bit arrogant, you don't know who painted the truck, nor their capabilities. HOK admitted a problem and reimbursed me for all the materials.  It wasn't the painter.

It doesn't matter.  As you asked before about reliability, HOK has more than 50- years of reliability. I'm sure they replaced your paint, their public relations works hard to satisfy customers.

I still say it was probably your painter.

I never asked about their reliablitly, I stated a fact based on experience. It was not the painter, HOK admitted the problem and paid me.

 

 

Have you ever sprayed enamel that's been over reduced in 40 degree weather? I f not try it and you will understand  the reference in regard to spraying CCP.

Painting in 40 degre weather is not recommended if you want to give the customer his worth.

 

It was a comparison, I wouldn't paint in that condition. You really didn't get that?

 

The Dark Magic was a bit of a joke, It refers to experimenting with different paints and their applications. Had no one done this to start, we would never have the candys and pearls we use now.

Okay, thought your Dark Magic was some kind of ethnic hair gel.

 

Also the point of my original post was not aimed at beginner airbrush, nor was the post from the Op. It seems you keep steering it in that direction and that might be the problem why you are having a hard time with other posters on here.

We are talking about both novice and experienced painters. 

Since you seem so interested in me, let me tell you that I have no problems with anyone here, perhaps you do.  I don't see these social forums as lonely hearts clubs but rather as gatherings of information and expertise.

And also unknown to yourself, some of those members you refer to have written and apologized for what they said,  since you are thinking about me.

Psych, this site is mostly intelligent reasonable guys with information to contribute, but don't let drama get in your way of enjoying it.

Just laugh at them.

No WE aren't. My original post had no reference to beginners or experts. You brought that up and I made one statement agreeing with you, that CCP might not be the easiest for a beginner.

 



#55 Harry P.

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:23 AM

Pat and Dave, take your never-ending argument to PM. None of the rest of us here are interested.