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1/25 Revell '70 Plymouth HEMI 'Cuda 2'n1


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#681 Luc Janssens

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:02 AM

 

"The cost of a high quality digital scan is now in the mid 4 digit range (e.g., just $5,000, more or less), and with some additional expenditures to process the scan results, and perhaps to ship, prep, and clean the 1//1 scale car post-scan.  This digital scan could at least give the overseas toolmakers a huge head start in capturing the subtle surface nuances of the original 1/1 scale designs.  It would seem to me that the incremental cost of this up front expenditure would be more than offset by not having to retool body castings to correct mistakes that were the result of trying to design a model from 2D pictures alone.  To me, personally, this is a much bigger issue than some embarrassing omissions or engraving on small engine parts."

 TIM      

 

Yes...it would be a step forward, but still you'll end up with scans of a 1:1 vehicle and it still needs to be translated to a 1/25 scale model, meaning tolerances, plastic thickness and molding concessions, can and will lead to differences between the final product and what used to roll of the line at the OEM.

It all still boils down to the human factor, time and the budget.

 

Luc



#682 SteveG

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:15 AM

.... Finally, all consumer products are the result of tradeoffs.  In this case, the model manufacturers have to work with Artisans that are half the world away, who in most cases have never been given the benefit of seeing in person what they are being asked to recreate in miniature.  The volumes involved can no longer financially justify having the tools created just 60 miles down the road (e.g. 1225 East Maple to the former tooling house in Windsor, Canada) any more.  The alternative would be no new kits at all.  Instead, the model companies work with their suppliers and overseas tooling houses to get these products right as much as humanly possible, and those suppliers also do their best to get it right.  Then there's the timeline.  At what point do you hit the "publish" button?  If you were the product manager, would you have held the kit up yet another 3-6 months (uneducated guess here) to fix the distributor and carb? .... 

 

 

Here's a perfect example from when I was working with Ernie on developing Lindberg's Dodge Charger Police version.  After several attempts over a few months our overseas artisans just could not capture the shape of the steel wheels and center caps correctly. Even though they had plenty detailed photos to work with.  We were about to give up on getting them corrected when we decided to send them an actual 1:1 wheel and center cap purchased from a local Dodge dealer. About a month later we got back acceptable test shots of those parts.   

 

Considering that those Artisans probably have never seen a 1:1 'Cuda ever and most likely never will it's amazing how much they did get right.  Short of shipping crates of 1:1 parts or actual cars half way around the world, digital 3D scanning is the solution.  I hope both Revell and Round 2 adopt the technology soon !   

 

-Steve



#683 FASTBACK340

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 08:06 AM

First of all, I'm not trying insinuate people not in the know are running the show. I just can't understand the previously mention carb & dist. mistakes getting through. But on the other hand, to be 100% fair, they did do some things that are real small details gotten RIGHT.

 

 

See the tail shaft on the transmission? It's a long tailshaft w/ the dual mounting points (the inverted triangular bolt-holes bosses) cast in for the different shifter locations between B & E bodies. THAT'S awesome detailing !

Attached File  Image 8.jpg   77.63KB   1 downloads

 

Again, I want to publicly apologize to Tim for stepping on toes with my original (poorly worded) post on this subject. Yes, there's things wrong… but more things right. Mostly the fact that this kit even happened. Tim, sorry to come across ungrateful or arrogant. We've always had a good relationship I'd hate to spoil. Sorry.

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by FASTBACK340, 19 January 2014 - 08:20 AM.


#684 tim boyd

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 08:10 AM

Again, I want to publicly apologize to Tim for stepping on toes with my original (poorly worded) post on this subject. Yes, there's things wrong… but more things right. Mostly the fact that this kit even happened. Tim, sorry to come across ungrateful or arrogant. We've always had a good relationship I'd hate to spoil. Sorry.

John...no apology necessary or expected at all.  

 

Just passionate modelers having a good discussion. 

 

Cool detail on the tranny shaft - I missed that one!  

 

Best regards...TIM  



#685 FASTBACK340

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 08:24 AM

Thank you Tim. As you posted, it's hard to judge tonality on message boards. My observation was more of confusion than actually demanding or expecting an answer.

 

Oh, and BTW….

Attached File  b&e-body-4sp.jpg   7.07KB   0 downloads



#686 Chuck Kourouklis

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 11:29 AM

HEAR HEAR, Tim. If they'd just scan the body of the 1:1, I'd happily deal with funky distributors, mixed-up venturis, odd little bracket projections off the oil filter, and whatever else came about.

 

To harp on the human factor would be responsive to the discussion if anybody were suggesting 3D scanning is the magic bullet or that it would replace human input at that level.  Fact is, nobody's claiming that. But for some reason, while it seemed to work okay in the past, the traditional method of scaling 3-dimensional objects from 2-dimensional pictures just isn't getting it done these days.  Mathematical conversion of 3D scan data will not just put every linear dimension into scale, but every radius of every curve of every surface.  

 

And while I assiduously avoid attacking model company executives or making an epithet out of "suit" - honestly, I think some of that is backlash at other modelers getting personal over stuff it makes NO SENSE to be sensitive about - I do wonder if they might not have some culpability in failing to implement this technology.

 

Compromises in things like nameplate scripts are understandable and easy to deal with.  As for material thickness and the like, you just make those adjustments where they aren't visible - I'm quoting an industrial designer on that one.  The Polar Lights '66 Batmobile has been a proof of this concept now.  For years.


Edited by Chuck Kourouklis, 20 January 2014 - 11:31 AM.


#687 FASTBACK340

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:24 AM

 

 

And while I assiduously avoid attacking model company executives or making an epithet out of "suit" - honestly, I think some of that is backlash at other modelers getting personal over stuff it makes NO SENSE to be sensitive about - I do wonder if they might not have some culpability in failing to implement this technology.

 

 

 

As I apologized earlier for the poor choice of words I still stand by my curiosity as to how things like this happen.

 

Just wondering aloud…...  B)



#688 Chuck Kourouklis

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:41 AM

Oh I wasn't taking a dig at you, 340 - just responding to what I saw in Tim's post without being mindful you said it too.

 

When you got people who can't handle an emperor's true state of dress jumping down your throat for pointing it out, it's easy to misdirect your aggression back at it, as I know all too well.


Edited by Chuck Kourouklis, 21 January 2014 - 11:20 AM.


#689 Chuck Most

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:00 AM

I've pored over all the pictures of this kit, and have looked at a few in person, and besides the 7-lead distributor cap, the only thing I really see weird going on (to my eye) is that character line over the rear wheel opening. Something just seems weird enough about it to register, but I'll not profess to be any kind of expert on E-Body Mopars. And I guess in the grand scheme, that 7-lead distributor isn't weird... remember when it seemed like Revell was under the impression the cars they were producing in kit form had 10-volt electrical systems (ie- the infamous five-cap batteries)?

 

I think this kit is proof that Revell's listening- not only to complaints about the accuracy of their last two attempts at a '70 'Cuda, but some of their other past efforts, which were viewed by many as being almost comically flawed. If you really want to sit there, pick this thing apart, and crunch the numbers, I'd still be willing to wager it's a marked improvement in quality (as far as being an accurate depiction of the subject) over, say, the '69 Novas, the '48 Ford Coupe, or the '72 Cutlass. I'm guessing this kit was probably too far into development to change much when the war cries over the weird roof on the '90 LX were heard, but maybe that backlash helped them to try a bit harder to get the important stuff right with this one too. Some Revell kits of late have been real head-scratchers for me ("Something looks off... but I just can't put my finger on what...") but so far this kit hasn't had that effect on me, personally. Of all the new kits Revell has introduced over the last few years, I'm thinking this one's head and shoulders above the rest in terms of accuracy.

 

And if somebody takes me up on that wager, and I win, I'd be more than happy to use my winnings to purchase a new set of bifocals for anyone who still thinks this kit looks more Camaro than 'Cuda. :rolleyes:



#690 FASTBACK340

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 12:25 PM

Yeah, I regret posting that and, naturally, a bit defensive not wanting to be reminded repeatedly about it, Sorry, again..... my bad.


FWIW: I'm about a third of the way into building a '70 right now and it really is a nice kit. And while some things are wrong, as I mentioned, I was floored they got the B-E body specific A-833 right including both shifter pad mounts.

I think that makes up for the missing cylinder terminal. And I will build the S&M car too.... regardless if they get the Pro Stock details right or wrong.

#691 1972coronet

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:38 PM

The 7-terminal ignition dist cap is still better than those lumps that are supposed to be distributors on those old MPC Chrysler 361-383-400-440 engines !

 

Is it possible that the disputed character line on the rear quarters is the result of tooling for future race versions of the kit ? In other words ; was the tooling for the Sox & Martin body made at the same time as the stock body ?



#692 stump

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 06:27 PM

Thank you Tim. As you posted, it's hard to judge tonality on message boards. My observation was more of confusion than actually demanding or expecting an answer.

 

Oh, and BTW….

attachicon.gifb&e-body-4sp.jpg

 

John, just quickly....would I be correct in assuming that the small "part cable" coming from the trans (just ahead of the first arrow) would be for the Speedo?

It also appears to be going in, up on an angle.

 

Many thanks

Greg
 



#693 stump

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 06:43 PM

Not wanting to buy into any accuracy issues here, just adding my 2 cents worth. :)

Not having been privileged with too many real 1:1 encounters with 'Cuda's, to me, as a non qualified model builder, it looks like a Cuda in my eyes.

I guess the biggest thing I can see that stands out is the fender lips. Now, I only have an old JoHan Cuda to compare too, and they are most definitely flatter.

But in reality, still no biggie for me. I may try and sand them down just a tad, but I'm worried that I may go too far, or worse yet, they may not match....May be best left alone.

The dizzy never even got a look in.....I already had one pre-wired sitting in my stash. :lol:  And had I gone completely "stock", I would've just used some resin carbs to get around that issue.

All in all, I think it's GREAT that Revell are producing kits that are newly tooled, of kits which are really needed.

Re-pops and re-releases will always hold a special place for some guys, but I really appreciate new stuff more so. :) 

A few more of these will surely be coming my way before too long.



#694 Chuck Most

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 07:48 PM

Yeah, I regret posting that and, naturally, a bit defensive not wanting to be reminded repeatedly about it, Sorry, again..... my bad.

Hey- no need to apologize for that- somebody was going to notice, and somebody had to be the first guy to point it out. This time, you happened to be that guy, that's all. And considering all the other things Revell DID get right...

 

The 7-terminal ignition dist cap is still better than those lumps that are supposed to be distributors on those old MPC Chrysler 361-383-400-440 engines !

... and many other kits. Ever see what's supposed to be a distributor cap on the Ertl International Scout II, just as one example?

 

Now that John has pointed out the S&M car, I'm kind of wondering if that had something do do with the iffy character line, too. I know little about early '70's Pro Stockers, so I'd not be the guy to give any kind of definitive answer on that.



#695 Chuck Kourouklis

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 07:57 PM

Well, the wobble in the character line seems to stem from a subtly flat area that radiates roughly 1/8" around each wheel arch, front and rear.

 

There was a point in some early review samples where the fender lips were not only too prominent, but too flat in their arcs as well. We might be seeing remnants of a little nip-'n-tuck on the way to production.



#696 FASTBACK340

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 01:18 AM

 

John, just quickly....would I be correct in assuming that the small "part cable" coming from the trans (just ahead of the first arrow) would be for the Speedo?

It also appears to be going in, up on an angle.

 

Many thanks

Greg
 

 

Yes, that round protrusion between the front shifter pad & the side cover is indeed the speedometer cable connection. 

 

I made one using a piece of tubing and a 00-90 nut. 

Attached File  Image 8.jpg   76.37KB   13 downloads

 

The round nub next to it is the reverse fork shaft.

 

Attached Files


Edited by FASTBACK340, 22 January 2014 - 01:20 AM.


#697 tim boyd

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 06:18 AM

 

Yes, that round protrusion between the front shifter pad & the side cover is indeed the speedometer cable connection. 

 

I made one using a piece of tubing and a 00-90 nut. 

attachicon.gifImage 8.jpg

 

The round nub next to it is the reverse fork shaft.

 

John.....WOW!  Just WOWWWWW!  Superb detailing you are doing there.  Tim



#698 FASTBACK340

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 08:07 AM

For years I've watched builders such as yourself do everything I wish I could. 

 

Thank YOU!   :) 



#699 stump

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 01:43 PM

John, absolutely AWESOME stuff mate. B)

 

Ok, you've nudged me over the edge.....looking at adding some extra details to mine now. ;)  :lol: 



#700 Ryan S.

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:52 AM

Sorry if Ive missed this in all the posts, but has anyone put this new body on the 2006 Challanger chassis to see if its an easy fit? I'm thinking about doing new tech, old body pro touring style with the new 70, and wondered how they fit together.