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Kits you'd like to see, but hey, you know they ruined the molds.


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#21 mikemodeler

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 03:09 AM

You would think if Moebius can tool up brand new tools for the 67-72 series Ford Pickups, that Round2 could fix the molds for the 70's Dodge pickups that were converted into monster trucks in the 80s. I have one of the Dodge Monster trucks and it appears that the hood and original 4x4 drivetrain is all that would be necessary to get it back into production.

I am not an accountant or tooling engineer, but I don't think with todays' technology that it would take much to get these kits back on the shelf and make a ton of modelers happy. They could offer a 2wd & 4wd version and with The Modelhaus having parts, we could create different years on our own.

#22 Jeff Johnston

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 04:48 AM

And AMT's 67 Falcon that ended up as the modified stocker.
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I'm with you 100% on that as well as the 67 Galaxie kit...

#23 rasafyff

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 07:40 AM

Whatever happened to the old Renwal Revival kits? The modern versions of classic cars.

#24 Fat Brian

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 07:46 AM

Mike, the tooling for the hood could be borrowed from the Little Red Express kit.

It would be nice to see the AMT Kenworth 923 again along with the Alaskan Hauler.

#25 Art Anderson

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:45 AM

You would think if Moebius can tool up brand new tools for the 67-72 series Ford Pickups, that Round2 could fix the molds for the 70's Dodge pickups that were converted into monster trucks in the 80s. I have one of the Dodge Monster trucks and it appears that the hood and original 4x4 drivetrain is all that would be necessary to get it back into production.

I am not an accountant or tooling engineer, but I don't think with todays' technology that it would take much to get these kits back on the shelf and make a ton of modelers happy. They could offer a 2wd & 4wd version and with The Modelhaus having parts, we could create different years on our own.


MIke, actually it would cost more money than you might think--in fact, you could prolly buy a couple of top-end Corvettes for what it might cost to rehabilitate some of those old tools, particularly if major elements have to be re-cut. Far too many people think that to put an old tool back into shape for new production is as simple and cheap as duck soup--but I am here to tell you that it is not that way!

Technology, be it 21st Century or something harking back to what some people today think of as the dark ages--it will cost $$. Now the question becomes: "Do you want to see the same old, same old kit from 40-50 yrs ago, or would you rather see something done as state of the art 2012?" You can think about that, then answer.

Art

#26 Greg Myers

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:35 AM

Every time I see "prolly" used in a thread I don't take it too seriously, and I'd pick state of the art, Art.

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Edited by Greg Myers, 10 November 2012 - 11:38 AM.


#27 Jeff Johnston

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:11 PM

Every time I see "prolly" used in a thread I don't take it too seriously, and I'd pick state of the art, Art.


Reading this response I assume you don't know Art personally, or even by reputation. If you did, you'd not question his credibility. I know him personally, and I can tell you without question that I don't know anyone else who is as knowledgeable about automobile history or model car history than Art.

Edited by Jeff Johnston, 10 November 2012 - 12:12 PM.


#28 FordRodnKustom

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:33 PM

Besides all the original AMT 1958 customizing kits,

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I'd like to see these again

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Posted Image

#29 mr moto

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 05:38 PM

I'd like to see the return of the AMT/MPC 1965 Coronet. The body is so much better than the Polar Lights version of several years ago.

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#30 Tonioseven

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:11 AM

'71 and '72 Caprices.

#31 tim boyd

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 01:40 AM

Parts from the Sizzler ended up in the School Bus, also a Tom Daniel's kit .


Daddy...I dind't know about the Sizzler parts in the S'cool bus. Which parts made the leap? Thanks for the insight on that one! TIM

UPDATE - in reading the rest of this thread, I see some are questioning this. I have the Sizzler kit but not sure I have the S'Cool Bus...wonder if anyone can pull out the kits and look (and photographs would be even better).

I think it somewhat unlikely that an old kit like the Sizzler would have been used to source the Daniell one-off's like the S'cool....that's why this statement caught my interest.

TIM

Edited by tim boyd, 11 November 2012 - 01:50 AM.


#32 FASTBACK340

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 02:56 AM

Irreversibly modified kit: AMT '65 Olds 88


Same goes for the MPC '68 Barracuda annual. They would have to re-tool the hood, header panel, grilles, tail lights/trunk finisher, marker lights, etc.

But that's just me.....

#33 Mr mopar

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:50 AM

So i Guess there are gone forever.


#34 Art Anderson

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 10:39 AM

So i Guess there are gone forever.


In all likelihood the tooling for the Tyrone Malone Super Boss/Boss Truck of America still exists. The kits were produced in 1978 and 1979, but didn't really hit a lot of popularity at the time. Chances are, however, that all licensing has expired though.

Art

#35 Art Anderson

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:19 AM

You would think if Moebius can tool up brand new tools for the 67-72 series Ford Pickups, that Round2 could fix the molds for the 70's Dodge pickups that were converted into monster trucks in the 80s. I have one of the Dodge Monster trucks and it appears that the hood and original 4x4 drivetrain is all that would be necessary to get it back into production.

I am not an accountant or tooling engineer, but I don't think with todays' technology that it would take much to get these kits back on the shelf and make a ton of modelers happy. They could offer a 2wd & 4wd version and with The Modelhaus having parts, we could create different years on our own.


My first reply to this was a bit too brief, and a bit too flippant: Most people assume that when a model kit tool is seriously modified, say as in the case of the pickup kits that were converted from stock configuration to monster or crusher truck model kits, that the original steel dies were merely re-cut. In all likelihood that was not the case; rather it's more than likely that new inserts for the body molds were created for the altered wheel arches, etc. To explain this more thoroughly:

To create the tooling for a one-piece body shell (car body, truck cab for instance) requires a series of movable sliding "core molds" that in the injection molding process, move inward to close up the body mold, and then once the molten plastic has been injected and has cooled to solidify, slide back or outwards to release the molded shell so that it can be removed (ejected) from the mold. That's where all those mold parting lines we modelers love to hate come from. For almost any one-piece body or truck cab, it takes at least six sliding cores to mold it: Inner core (inside surfaces), front core, rear core, right side core, left side core and upper core. Now, if only say, the body sides are to be changed as dramatically as with the monster truck kits, just the two side sliding cores need be changed--given the nature of hardened tool steel, that's not easily done, so more than likely new side slide cores and a new inner core mold were created to fit the original body tooling. The question then becomes--do the original slides that were changed out still exist (likely they do) and if so, are they in a usable condition today? IF they were preserved with a coating of cosmoline then likely yes, if not, rust likely will have made them unusable today.

Next comes the job of finding all that stuff: While the main mold bases probably are readily identifiable, a lot of the tooling inside them was done as "inserts", smaller steel blocks engraved to make various parts, and those may well have been removed, replaced with newly cut inserts for subsequent versions. Finding and identifying those could be a major problem, particularly for AMT tooling, given that AMT's tooling has changed hands several times over the past 35 or so years, and been moved at least three times over hundreds if not thousands of miles (from Troy MI to Baltimore MD, then to Dyersville IA, and now to South Bend IN) and most all of it was made before the introduction of computer databases to track all those various bits and pieces of tooling--even the internal "house" codes used to ID a lot of those changed several times--it now becomes a matter of someone who is knowledgeable about this stuff to literally sort through probably several hundred tons of tools (those old original mold bases weigh at minimum, at least a ton apiece--you aren't just going to pick one up with your bare hands, open it up to see what's inside), and all those extra tool inserts are likely in a myriad of heavy wooden crates as well. This means literally looking at each and every bit of tooling, and identifying them as to what subject they truly are.

All of this is the basis for my earlier comment that it may well be less expensive to simply make all new tooling than to try and rehabilitate something cut decades ago--meaning that in either case, it is likely to be a major investment.

Art

#36 charlie8575

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:39 AM

Technology, be it 21st Century or something harking back to what some people today think of as the dark ages--it will cost $$. Now the question becomes: "Do you want to see the same old, same old kit from 40-50 yrs ago, or would you rather see something done as state of the art 2012?" You can think about that, then answer.

Art


The answer....and here comes my legal training into play, is, "it depends."

If it's a really cool kit that probably wouldn't be cut as an all-new tool now, yes, I'd like to see it restored. Or if the original kit was really well-done.

Similarly, if we need an all-new kit because it was either never done or the existing molds are an engineering horror show for whatever reason (missing parts, done really wrong initially, screwed up by some variation,) then cut the mold.

Example of really well-done and that I'd like to see come back- the Monogram and MPC classics. I love those kits.

Charlie Larkin

#37 Art Anderson

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:41 AM

Whatever happened to the old Renwal Revival kits? The modern versions of classic cars.


Renwal closed up in the late 1960's or early 1970's, one of the original makers of plastic toys and hobby kits. Some tooling was bought by Revell (Renwal was the original mfr of the "Visible V8" kit for example). Some model car kit subjects from Renwal made it into Revell's lineup, notably the 1/12 scale '65 Mustang Fastback and the 1/12 scale Mercedes Benz 300SL Gullwing coupe, along with much of the armor kits that Renwall produced in the late 1950's. Some other Renwal tooling was acquired by Glencoe Models as well.

As for the "Revival" series of car kits--those started in the mind of Virgil Exner Sr., who was the chief stylist at Chrysler from 1953-l962; as renderings for an article about what the great Classic Cars of the 20's and 30's might look like in 1966 if still in production (Mercer, Stutz, Duesenberg, Packard, Jordan Playboy, Bugatti), in Esquire Magazine about 1964 or so. Two of the designs were actually built as real cars: The Mercer-Cobra, coachbuilt by Ghia on a 289 Cobra chassis for the American Copper & Brass Association (all the trim, and the cast wheels, were in copper, bronze and brass), and the Bugatti 101C also got coachwork by Ghia on one of just 3 or 4 T101C chassis & drive trains that Exner spotted on a visit to Molsheim in eastern France in the late 1940's, buying that rolling chassis from Le Patron himself. Both cars still exist today, in the collection of General William Lyons USAF Ret. in California (I've seen both cars, and they are stunning).

Renwall introduced those Revival kits in either late 1965 or early 1966, but they were notoriously poor sellers--several hobby wholesalers still had unsold stock of them well into the early 1980's, believe it or not. I think it's doubtful that even if the tooling could be found, they'd do very much in the marketplace today.

Art

#38 Draggon

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 02:50 PM

I'd love to see the Pinto too!
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#39 von Zipper

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:04 PM

I would like to see the MPC 1969-72 Pontiac Grand Prix before they ruined it with the "SuperFly" and "Sweat Hogs" versions .

#40 Greg Myers

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:21 AM

Daddy...I dind't know about the Sizzler parts in the S'cool bus. Which parts made the leap? Thanks for the insight on that one! TIM

UPDATE - in reading the rest of this thread, I see some are questioning this. I have the Sizzler kit but not sure I have the S'Cool Bus...wonder if anyone can pull out the kits and look (and photographs would be even better).

I think it somewhat unlikely that an old kit like the Sizzler would have been used to source the Daniell one-off's like the S'cool....that's why this statement caught my interest.

TIM


I have done this comparison. My findings were the two (LOL, one multi engined kit and the other a dual engined kit) engines were similar, however the valve covers were different and the blocks were different , in that one had a semblance of a transmission and the other didn't. Molding marks on the inside of the engines were also different as were the exhaust mountings on each. Photos? That would be great, however I have made a move to a new home and stuff is everywhere.