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Is it true about Tamiya TS-13?


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#41 Maindrian Pace

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 07:10 PM

I've never used it. Is it better than Testors Wet Look?

 

-MJS



#42 plowboy

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 05:25 AM

I've never used it. Is it better than Testors Wet Look?

 

-MJS

 

I've used both Mike and I much prefer Tamiya TS-13. What I like about it most is that it won't obscure the details. Another is how smooth it will lay down. I'm glad it's back. But, I still haven't seen it at my LHS.



#43 ZTony8

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 06:35 AM

Mike-be careful when using TS-13.It has specific recoat times and if you don't abide by them it will come back to haunt you.Either apply TS-13 as soon as you shoot your final color coat OR wait at least 2 weeks.This clear has a different drying rate than the colors and will crack if applied at the wrong time.Also-TS-13 can very hard on decals so beware of spraying it over them.



#44 Maindrian Pace

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 10:04 AM

Thanks Gentlemen, I'll give it a go when I see it next.

 

-MJS



#45 Mike_G

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 02:00 PM

I've used TS-13 over decals- the trick is to blow several light mist coats on to build up a barrier before you even think about a wet coat.

 

Also, if you use Micro-set when you apply your decals, be aware that it has acetic acid in it which can react with TS-13 unless you give the decals enough time for the acid to completely dissipate, which can take several days.



#46 Exotics_Builder

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 04:17 AM

I decant my TS-13 and airbrush it.  Avoids problems that way.  I do that for the Testor clears as well.  I still have a couple of the original TS-13's left, but am glad it (and the other colors) are back.



#47 High octane

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 04:20 AM

I spray my clear coats on 24 hours after my color coats and never had a problem, including using TS-13.



#48 ZTony8

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 02:07 AM

Nick,you've been lucky with your TS-13.Other clears,like Testor, are milder and don't react the same way.



#49 High octane

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 05:01 AM

Sometimes being "lucky" is better than being good. LOL!



#50 plowboy

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 02:20 AM

I've used TS-13 over decals- the trick is to blow several light mist coats on to build up a barrier before you even think about a wet coat.

 

Also, if you use Micro-set when you apply your decals, be aware that it has acetic acid in it which can react with TS-13 unless you give the decals enough time for the acid to completely dissipate, which can take several days.

 

You can also brush a coat of future on just the decals, allow it to dry and then spray as usual. One lesson I learned the hard way was you don't want to spray TS-13 over Model Masters metallic paints. For whatever reason, it attacks and lifts the metallic in the paint and will darken the color a LOT! It also darkens Tamiya pearls and metallics slightly.



#51 tim boyd

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 03:17 AM

Mike-be careful when using TS-13.It has specific recoat times and if you don't abide by them it will come back to haunt you.Either apply TS-13 as soon as you shoot your final color coat OR wait at least 2 weeks.This clear has a different drying rate than the colors and will crack if applied at the wrong time.Also-TS-13 can very hard on decals so beware of spraying it over them.

 

Mike....Also...be careful...very careful....when you spray "wet coats" as the TS-13 paint has a tendency to capture the aerosol propellant in the paint as it sits on the model...creating bubbles (or holes where the bubbles were and later "popped") that are extremely difficult to repair.  Try to avoid spraying too close to the model as this accelerates the chance of this problem occurring.  (This caution applies to the old TS-13, I have not tried the new can I bought last week.)

 

Also, be aware that if you follow the "must paint first coat of clear right after the color coat" caution above, TS-13 can attack the base coat color, causing it to pull away from edges (like door and hood cuts, etc.)  

 

I agree with most posters that TS-13 provides an outstanding finish WHEN everything goes well....but it has a higher propensity to cause problems in the finished result, as you can see from the multiple responses above.  

 

Stated another way...if you like to take chances in striving to achieve the ultimate result, use TS-13.  If you grow tired of repairing mistakes from TS-13, use Testors Wet Look Clear as an alternative, which provides a comparable result, but with more predictable results, offset by more post-painting efforts (e.g. rubbing compounds and possible micro-mesh pads depending on the degree of orange peel in the final coats of clear).  Or, decant the TS-13 as several responses mention, which should at least reduce or eliminate the possibility of the "bubbles" phenomenon, and possibly the "attacking the color coat" issue.    

 

TIM 


Edited by tim boyd, 11 September 2014 - 03:17 AM.


#52 Mike Kucaba

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 06:32 AM

Meh. I avoid all this fol-de-rol by using a good automotive type clear with the proper thinner and an airbrush.

 

I tried TS-13(several times) and got ONE good clear coat... when I decanted it and used my AB. :lol:



#53 plowboy

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 07:08 AM

Tamiya paints and clears are like anything else. If you like it and know how to use it, you can't beat it. If you don't, you better find something else. Like anything else, there's a learning curve to it. Any paint will have problems if it's not sprayed correctly. Any time I've had a paint problem, it was something I did. Not something the paint did. You can't blame the paint if you don't know how to use it properly. It has no control over how it's used.



#54 ffreak

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:38 AM

 

Mike....Also...be careful...very careful....when you spray "wet coats" as the TS-13 paint has a tendency to capture the aerosol propellant in the paint as it sits on the model...creating bubbles (or holes where the bubbles were and later "popped") that are extremely difficult to repair.  Try to avoid spraying too close to the model as this accelerates the chance of this problem occurring.  (This caution applies to the old TS-13, I have not tried the new can I bought last week.)

 

Also, be aware that if you follow the "must paint first coat of clear right after the color coat" caution above, TS-13 can attack the base coat color, causing it to pull away from edges (like door and hood cuts, etc.)  

 

I agree with most posters that TS-13 provides an outstanding finish WHEN everything goes well....but it has a higher propensity to cause problems in the finished result, as you can see from the multiple responses above.  

 

Stated another way...if you like to take chances in striving to achieve the ultimate result, use TS-13.  If you grow tired of repairing mistakes from TS-13, use Testors Wet Look Clear as an alternative, which provides a comparable result, but with more predictable results, offset by more post-painting efforts (e.g. rubbing compounds and possible micro-mesh pads depending on the degree of orange peel in the final coats of clear).  Or, decant the TS-13 as several responses mention, which should at least reduce or eliminate the possibility of the "bubbles" phenomenon, and possibly the "attacking the color coat" issue.    

 

TIM 

As a side note to what Tim says here about the TS13 as well as other clears, when you run across the bubbles from the propellant, and also fogging, I have learned that while it's still wet, if you see it right away, I EXHALE very hard on that area, several times until it clears up. I have no explanation for why it helps, I just know that it does !! My 2 cenths worth.



#55 jbwelda

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 10:55 AM

For the life of me I cannot understand what is going on here. I use it on every build for the past five or so years and have pretty much never had a single problem with it. that's over Tamiya colors, Tamiya metallics, MM colors, MM metallics, decals, striping tape, whatever. timeframe? anywhere from almost immediately (don't like doing that) to weeks from painting the color coat. and everywhere in between. maybe its the humidity or something because here in mostly dry California there is nada problem.

 

I have had that bubble issue with their color paints, but its always been because of me overdoing it. breathe heavy on it? might as well wave a dead cat at it for all the good it does. I find the bubbles disappear on their own most of the time, many times right before your eyes, and the rest of the time cause a restrip and repaint job. you probably just got lucky when you did your voodoo move on it.

 

by the way don't look for some difference in the "new" stuff. get real: they don't just go reformulating paint at the drop of a hat. 99% sure it was, if anything, a labeling issue.

 

now you want to experience trouble? that Model Master clear is not only confusing (uh there is lacquer clear and then there is or was enamel clear but the enamel strangely smells and handles just like the lacquer does and then there are things they seem to introduce and then disappear as rapidly as they appeared so you can never find more of it, then there is "wet look" clear but then that paint number appears again as simply "clear" and sometimes "clear coat", rarely are things consistent over the years) but that is the stuff I have had the most trouble with: running, fogging, sagging, discoloring and yellowing (try it on a bright white car sometime).

 

maybe I just live in a different universe or something.

 

jb



#56 ffreak

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 12:17 PM

Maybe so. But my " voodoo as you call it has worked for me many times, not just once. You might try someones suggestions before you go dismissing them and waving any dead cats !!!!!



#57 jbwelda

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 01:09 PM

so your ts13 has bubbled "many times"? to me that indicates a problem that calls for avoidance rather than remedy.

 

heres a suggestion that will actually work: try spraying thinner coats and letting it dry between the coats.

 

I can think of no logical reason why basically spitting (thats what you are doing essentially, emitting water/saliva molecules onto the paint through your breath) on wet paint is gonna clear up bubbles but maybe you actually mean to blow on the paint while it is still wet and encourage it to flow together (by air pressure) and eliminate the bubbles. I don't see how it is going to do anything for "fog" though except maybe make it worse.

 

see if stuff doesn't make logical sense, it rarely works except just maybe by happy coincidence. but like I said, somehow, mysteriously, I have never had this issue. maybe its the ambient humidity in the air like I mentioned.

 

jb



#58 tim boyd

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 01:30 PM

Tamiya paints and clears are like anything else. If you like it and know how to use it, you can't beat it. If you don't, you better find something else. Like anything else, there's a learning curve to it. Any paint will have problems if it's not sprayed correctly. Any time I've had a paint problem, it was something I did. Not something the paint did. You can't blame the paint if you don't know how to use it properly. It has no control over how it's used.

 

That is a good point.  

 

Man...I must be a crummy painter after all these years (smile).  I guess my point would be better explained as follows:  I found that Testors Wet Look Clear seems to have a broader tolerance of painter (that would be me) errors without creating a condition that requires the paint to be stripped and redone.   Having used both of these paints extensively, that has been my personal experience.   Yours will probably vary.   

 

By contrast, other than the TS-13 and TS-47 Chrome Yellow, I have found Tamiya base coat colors to give uniformly superb results, which is why I have nearly all the Tamiya TS paint colors in my stash and use them frequently in my projects.  

 

But by all means, if you get consistent results with TS-13, then use it.   Meanwhile, guess I better go back to spray painting school for a refresher (grinning broadly as I write this - anybody got the course number so I can enroll :)?)  

 

Best...TB 


Edited by tim boyd, 11 September 2014 - 01:30 PM.


#59 ffreak

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 02:56 PM

so your ts13 has bubbled "many times"? to me that indicates a problem that calls for avoidance rather than remedy.

 

heres a suggestion that will actually work: try spraying thinner coats and letting it dry between the coats.

 

I can think of no logical reason why basically spitting (thats what you are doing essentially, emitting water/saliva molecules onto the paint through your breath) on wet paint is gonna clear up bubbles but maybe you actually mean to blow on the paint while it is still wet and encourage it to flow together (by air pressure) and eliminate the bubbles. I don't see how it is going to do anything for "fog" though except maybe make it worse.

 

see if stuff doesn't make logical sense, it rarely works except just maybe by happy coincidence. but like I said, somehow, mysteriously, I have never had this issue. maybe its the ambient humidity in the air like I mentioned.

 

jb

The only time I have ever had TS13 bubble was when I either put it on too heavy, or if I didn't let it sit for a moment after shaking it up and the propellant caused a slight bubble/foaming effect. But since i've learned to warm the cans before spraying, that's not a problem now either. I never said anything about spitting or blowing on it. And furthermore, I was merely pointing out an observation, a tip, that has worked for ME. If you don't want to try it, then don't. No need to be arguementative about it and and doubting me. If you don't feel it's usefull info.... let it lie !!!!  My thinking on it is that the hot breath tends to serve the same purpose as warming the can, the warm air helps release the propellant. But then what do I know, i'm not a know it all......