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Ariel Atom 3D print


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#21 NormL

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:32 PM

I knew some of the Shapeways faithful would show up!  I forget they have forums too.



#22 ItsThePaint!

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:32 PM

this is incredible.



#23 Chuck Kourouklis

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:36 PM

Very cool subject! And oooh, LOOKY

 

another scanned subject that looks just like the 1:1.

 

.

 

.

 

(Y'know, the novelty of hammering that message home just doesn't seem to wear off)

 

B) 



#24 Rob Hall

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:38 PM

Cool..I'd love to drive a Ariel Atom.



#25 NormL

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 03:39 PM

OK, there has to be history to the sarcasm.  What am I missing?

 

Sorry, Rob, you got in before me ...


Edited by NormL, 09 January 2013 - 03:39 PM.


#26 Chuck Kourouklis

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:11 PM

Well, Norm, there are proportioning problems in many off-the-shelf plastic car model kits, and there are those of us who've maintained that it's way beyond time for the manufacturers of said kits to start adopting the 3D scanning techniques they so obviously are not using at the mastering stage.

 

And then there are those who insist that 3D scanning is not the answer, that a proportionally precise reduction won't really look like the 1:1 subject.

 

Except that every time we see an example, it kind of... um...

 

DOES.

 

(main point being, it's nothing like a slam on your work - and what's more, thank you!)



#27 NormL

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:22 PM

Ok, I understand your point.  Back in the day, .. OK, the '60's!, ... when I was making models I was amazed at the accuracy of the models produced.  I was just a kid and didn't get the high dollar stuff if there was any, I was comparing Revell, AMT, Monogram and my favorite at the time IMC.  I now, of course, know they were not as accurate as i thought and were the result of painstaking hours of measurement and drafting.  They were amazing for what they were.  The idea that a strict proportional reduction won't look the best is preposterous.  I have had to oversize the joints and a few other things as concessions to 3D printing being fully aware that buy doing so it would hurt "the look".  You are correct, the manufacturers should be utilizing the best tools at their disposal.



#28 JM485

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:40 PM

Wow, most of this stuff is over my head, but hopefully I can learn a bit of it soon since I am planning to got to school to be an engineer.  It is amazing what these printers can do, and I hope manufactures do as suggested and start scaling things down a bit more precisely using newer technology.



#29 Foxer

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:04 PM

...  The idea that a strict proportional reduction won't look the best is preposterous.  ...

 

First, thanks for starting this thread and giving us all insight into this extremely interesting subject.

 

And, thanks for posting that quoted statement! I'm an engineer and simple don't get what all these people are imagining when they talk about not scaling correctly. I believe they just don't understand a camera lens.

 

Anyway, please keep us informed on your project.



#30 Austin T

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:26 PM

I am eagerly following this thread.A guy at our last model club meet brought in a dirt track chassis he bought from there,really cool to see in person.



#31 Lownslow

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:47 PM

I knew some of the Shapeways faithful would show up!  I forget they have forums too.

For a second i felt like the only one have you seen Indycals work?, local motors put their rally fighter model on thingiverse for free so did someone claiming to be ford.


#32 Gluhead

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:09 PM

[in my best Spock voice and raised eyebrow]

 

Fascinating...



#33 Bennyg

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:20 AM

This is pure gold. Will be watching. Cheers
Ben

#34 Doobie

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 01:24 AM

Hi norm what paints are compatible with this plastic if it is plastic ?



#35 NormL

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:29 AM

For a second i felt like the only one have you seen Indycals work?, local motors put their rally fighter model on thingiverse for free so did someone claiming to be ford.

Learn something new every day.  I have never heard of Indycals before.  Before a couple of months ago I had never heard of local motors either.  I have been posting in their Ariel Atom headlight thread though.



#36 NormL

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:44 AM

Hi norm what paints are compatible with this plastic if it is plastic ?

This design is to the Shapeways design standards for White Strong and Flexible (WSF)  http://www.shapeways.com/materials/strong-flexible  WSF is a laser sintered plastic that is 100% nylon, so, most anything that you are used to will work.  The issue will be a laser sintered plastic is left very porous and really should be sealed before painting.  It has a rough course texture and just absorbs paint.  When doing the fenders I found that I could be very rough with it.  I had printed each front fender as 12 pieces that I glued together (this is because Shapeways apply idiotic length rules for long 3D objects).  I used super glue to glue them into shape and the pieces absorbed a ton of super glue.  I then took the fenders and bondo'ed them and sanded any imperfection out.  I also used the bondo on the back side to make them strong enough for casting.  Primer to 400 grit and cast.  WSF is very strong if the part is engineered to have internal reinforcement and if printed thin enough very flexible, just a great material.  I have also found that heat absorption ridges need to be strategically added to longer prints



#37 NormL

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:06 AM

 

First, thanks for starting this thread and giving us all insight into this extremely interesting subject.

 

And, thanks for posting that quoted statement! I'm an engineer and simple don't get what all these people are imagining when they talk about not scaling correctly. I believe they just don't understand a camera lens.

 

Anyway, please keep us informed on your project.

I tried to find these comments last night on the forum and was unable too.  I did see a thread about 3D printing in general that did bring up some good points.  There are always compromises and with current technology you just cannot make a perfect reduced sized model, concessions will be made somewhere.  We just cannot print thin enough and still have strength although I am watching what is happening with SLM with high interest.  It was brought up in that thread how thin body metal is went reduced to 1/24th, which is true and a great example of a concession.

For me all of the frame rails and I do mean all of the frame rails are a true 1/24th scale, but, the suspension joints are major concessions.  Now if I go back later this year and say design the lower tub for the car I will have no choice but to hug the frame.  My minimum design width for WSF is 0.7mm or 16.8mm true, that has to outward as I will have no choice.  We are talking about a concession that would be very hard to see with your eyes, but, I will always know it is there.  Another example is the steering on the car.  The steering wheel is in its exact location, size and tilt, but, if I mimicked the stock mounts it would break the first time someone touched it.  I was designing for working steering so the shaft is too big, the steering holder is not even close to stock, but, I did maintain the stock geometry.

This leaves me with a question.  When I walk away from this project, I will leave this model on Shapeways for people to print for themselves.  My journey is for a working model exercise.  When I leave it, do modelers want me to mimic the stock suspension and steering (still leaving it strong enough to sit on a shelf) or would modelers want the working model, ... curious?



#38 Scale-Master

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:28 AM

I don't have the answer to your question; it depends on what a particular individual would want. To that end it is nearly impossible to please everyone.

 

I would suggest you do it the way you want to, if that means concessions in scale (all models have them) to make a functioning model, go for it, I am sure there are many that would enjoy it.  If you prefer to make an accurate as possible replica and forgo the action aspect, do that.  You are in the driver’s seat. 

 

What would I want?  Accuracy.  But that is just me…



#39 NormL

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:44 AM

OK, let me rephrase the question as modeler's will always answer accuracy to the question that I asked.  I am enamored by the engineering, so, I look at it a little differently.

 

As your first 3D printed model base, would you prefer an example of how far it could be pushed at the time in a single print (movement) or would you still prefer accuracy?



#40 Gluhead

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:56 AM

Only speaking for myself, of course, in this case I find the potentials involved in producing a functional end-product in one shot more intriguing than absolute scale fidelity.

 

Now for the real question - Can they make it taste like chicken? :P