Jump to content


3-D Printing is now affordable


  • You cannot reply to this topic
159 replies to this topic

#41 CadillacPat

CadillacPat

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 771 posts
  • Location:Houston
  • Full Name:Pat Parker

Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:03 PM

Okay,

So let's say magically these 3D Printers become available tomorrow morning for $100 that "will" print out acceptable , albeit in sections, bodies.

And let's say this can all be done with the press of one single button. Since it is apparent that any degree of difficulty will dramatically affect acceptability, purchase and use.

Then you still have to send out to someone for Decals and someone else for Chrome plate.

So how is this going to superimpose itself over the world of Model Kits and make their 75 years of manufacturing disappear?

 

Like the Jetsons it is nice to dream about, but look around, there are still not any of the flying cars they promised we would all have parked in our driveway.

 

Even with all the spoken magic shazzam Star Trek potential, maybe one tenth of 1% of Modelers out there will attempt this.

 

I teach people how to design, create, print and apply their own Custom Decals but only a fraction take the initiative to attempt it and only a fraction of those correctly can and do follow directions to do it successfully.

 

Some may try this promised futuristic technique,, again on this proposed availability of a working machine,  but 99.99% will look around and see the millions of Model Kits easily available for their enjoyment.

 

We are talking about 2 kinds of Artist or Modeler here.

Those who just want to enjoy a Build, and someone who is more interested in creating many many pieces from powdered plastic.

There is a high degree of personal satisfaction from being a "one man show"  in any artistic endeavor, but it takes lots of effort and know how.

It is a totally different aspect of any Hobby undertaken by one tenth of one percent, at best.

 

I myself prefer hands on in all aspects of DieCast Customizing and would rather do it all because I don't know anyone who would go to the lengths that I do, except for one well know ScaleMaster, but in this case injection molding is dependable, accurate, and easily available.

Take it home, open the box and have a good time.

 

CadillacPat


Edited by CadillacPat, 16 January 2013 - 04:04 PM.


#42 martinfan5

martinfan5

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,424 posts
  • Location:Los Santos, San Andreas
  • Full Name:Jonathan Stephens

Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:30 PM

Okay,

So let's say magically these 3D Printers become available tomorrow morning for $100 that "will" print out acceptable , albeit in sections, bodies.

And let's say this can all be done with the press of one single button. Since it is apparent that any degree of difficulty will dramatically affect acceptability, purchase and use.

Then you still have to send out to someone for Decals and someone else for Chrome plate.

So how is this going to superimpose itself over the world of Model Kits and make their 75 years of manufacturing disappear?

 

Like the Jetsons it is nice to dream about, but look around, there are still not any of the flying cars they promised we would all have parked in our driveway.

 

Even with all the spoken magic shazzam Star Trek potential, maybe one tenth of 1% of Modelers out there will attempt this.

 

I teach people how to design, create, print and apply their own Custom Decals but only a fraction take the initiative to attempt it and only a fraction of those correctly can and do follow directions to do it successfully.

 

Some may try this promised futuristic technique,, again on this proposed availability of a working machine,  but 99.99% will look around and see the millions of Model Kits easily available for their enjoyment.

 

We are talking about 2 kinds of Artist or Modeler here.

Those who just want to enjoy a Build, and someone who is more interested in creating many many pieces from powdered plastic.

There is a high degree of personal satisfaction from being a "one man show"  in any artistic endeavor, but it takes lots of effort and know how.

It is a totally different aspect of any Hobby undertaken by one tenth of one percent, at best.

 

I myself prefer hands on in all aspects of DieCast Customizing and would rather do it all because I don't know anyone who would go to the lengths that I do, except for one well know ScaleMaster, but in this case injection molding is dependable, accurate, and easily available.

Take it home, open the box and have a good time.

 

CadillacPat

And your point in all that is what?,   are you against 3D printing?



#43 MachinistMark

MachinistMark

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,196 posts
  • Location:nova scotia
  • Full Name:Mark fulmore

Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:32 PM

He's against had durned new fangled tecnomalogies

#44 martinfan5

martinfan5

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,424 posts
  • Location:Los Santos, San Andreas
  • Full Name:Jonathan Stephens

Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:33 PM

He's against had durned new fangled tecnomalogies

Like most people around here are :lol:



#45 Harry P.

Harry P.

    MCM Ohana

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,833 posts
  • Location:NW suburban Chicago
  • Full Name:A mere layman...

Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:56 PM

To Cadillac Pat:

 

To put it simply, you're wrong.

 

3-D printing technology is here, it works... but it's not quite as sophisticated or mainstream as it will inevitably be. The technology is progressing rapidly. Very soon it will be a mainstream product, guaranteed.

 

This technology is going to take over not only the model hobby, but all sorts of other areas. Today, many architectural firms are using the technology to print out their models... already colored and detailed inside and out, straight from the computer screen. No more foam-core models.

 

This technology is too big to ignore or wish away. It's going to be big in many ways. You can close your shutters and pretend it's not coming, but you'll be like the blacksmith who stood at his door watching all the cars drive by and wondering where his business went.

 

The only constant in life is change. And as we get more and more technologically advanced, the change is only going to come at us faster and faster. Think about how different your life was just 25 years ago. No cell phones. No home computers. No internet. No flat-screen TVs. No Kindles or iPads or tablets. No online model forums. 

 

Get used to change. It's going to keep right on coming.



#46 CadillacPat

CadillacPat

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 771 posts
  • Location:Houston
  • Full Name:Pat Parker

Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:09 PM

To Harry,

No, you are wrong and apparently cannot accept it.

On one hand you say the tech is here and then you come back and say it is coming.  Which is it?

I gave a perfectly good, honest and logical response and got attacked for it/

Perhaps there should have been a disclaimer saying," Only responses that agree will be accepted, no disagreements allowed, ever"

 

One sided discussions are just that, one sided and no discussion at all.

 

If this technology is here then where is it?  Are you printing out Models?

Just because billion dollar companies have these machines does not mean that Modelers are using them with perfect success.

 

I won't waste time making allusions to peoples age as I have seen with other interruptions of the topic.

That is a pretty weak comeback.

 

I have seen more change in the world than most here, so I can accurately gauge and see that this change is not here yet.

 

It is laughable that a few refuse to accept that they may be wrong.

Did you think I meant to hurt your feelings with the obvious truth?

 

Now go ahead and do some more of that La La thing because only input from one side of this discussion will be allowed.

Attacking people for clear information brings this board down to the level of that goofy Lazy Barn Door guy that used to be here.

But, it seems that attacking me is easier than accepting reality, or at the very least, agreeing that I make valid points.

 

By your assumption there should be dozens of links to Modelers that are printing and selling 3D created Models.

So where ae they?

 

I will disreagrd the silly side swipes that have interrupted the flow of this topic.

 

 

CadillacPat


Edited by CadillacPat, 16 January 2013 - 05:35 PM.


#47 martinfan5

martinfan5

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,424 posts
  • Location:Los Santos, San Andreas
  • Full Name:Jonathan Stephens

Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:27 PM

I dont know, but it sure does seem that doing a quick Google search using 3D printer brings us this

https://www.google.c...iw=1024&bih=605

 

So yes Pat you are right, its not coming, its already here, with in time, it will be in the hands of use modelers, I am sure it might already be.

 

It is very sad that you keep arguing that 3D printing is not coming, when its already here, stop, you have are wrong.   We get the fact that you can not accept that fact, is it because you only deal with diecast, and 3D printing is of no use to you , I have no clue and dont really care.

 

But the fact is withing the current decade, its going to become main stream, just like ink jet printers/laser printers are now, like it or not.  No one is saying you have to buy one, no one is saying you have to like 3D printing , but stop saying its not going to change the hobby, it will, but just like everything other new technology, its going to take some time for it to happen, just it like the time for the automobile to be come mainstream, or TVs, and every other piece of technology has,  it will sooner or later.

 

Or if, and this is a big if, it become a flop and fail, but I dont see that happing


Edited by martinfan5, 16 January 2013 - 05:29 PM.


#48 Casey

Casey

    MCM Ohana

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,333 posts
  • Location:Milwaukee, WI
  • Full Name:Casey Littmann

Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:30 PM

Get used to change. It's going to keep right on coming.

 

I don't think Pat's arguing that 3D tech isn't coming, but rather his comments seem to be more about how quickly and openly the average hobbyist will embrace the technology. I don't have anything against 3D printing, and I will readily admit it is here and will keep advancing and improving, but I'm unwilling to take to giant leap to "will completely replace injection molded model kits", and John pretty much summed up my thought when he said:

 

"I'll welcome the aftermarket items that will be available via 3-D printing but I'll still want to open that sealed kit box and get that rush of fresh styrene.  It is said that the sense of smell is the most evocative and I pretty much agree with that line of thought"

 

The personal thoughts, emotions, and feelings model kits can and do evoke in some of our minds is not something to be taken lightly, as there is some serious buying power behind them, and something 3D desktop printing can not match. I liken it to comparing a 2012 Mustang GT to a '67 Mustang GT. One clearly does just about everything better, safer, and more quickly, yet some of us would choose he classic without needing to think about it. 

 

It will be interesting to see how 3D technology progresses, and at what rate. I don't think it's going to happen as quickly as say, Harry, but I am looking forward to higher printing resolutions, lower cost, and greater availability of the hardware, software, and raw materials needed.



#49 martinfan5

martinfan5

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,424 posts
  • Location:Los Santos, San Andreas
  • Full Name:Jonathan Stephens

Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:44 PM

 

I don't think Pat's arguing that 3D tech isn't coming, but rather his comments seem to be more about how quickly and openly the average hobbyist will embrace the technology. I don't have anything against 3D printing, and I will readily admit it is here and will keep advancing and improving, but I'm unwilling to take to giant leap to "will completely replace injection molded model kits", and John pretty much summed up my thought when he said:

I dont think anyone is saying its going to be here tomorrow in all of our hands,  it will some day soon, how soon, none of use know for that right now, but what is being said its going to happen, time frame , thats anyones guess.   I can see it some day down the road having a big impact on the hobby and pertaining to the model companys, but again, in what form, we dont know right now, but we can bet that it will change some aspects of what or how the model companys design and even manufacturer kits.

 

But I am not saying its going to happen anytime soon, just someday in the future, and all we are doing is just guessing at this point. 

 

I dont want to see a stop to model kits coming in box's either, I still enjoy opening up the box's, smelling that new plastic smell,  I hope if that time does come, I am not around anymore in the hobby, because that will be a sad day for all of us.

 

Things cant and dont always stay the same, change does happen, I have to agree with Harry, like it or not, but again, I am not saying whats going to change because I really dont know, but I really cant think 3D printing would not change the hobby.

 

We are all going to find out at the same time, whats going to happen.

 

What I am about to say is just an opinion, and I could be completely wrong

I see 3D printing being the new resin casting , meaning it will make resin casting a thing of the past, but I dont see that happing for a very long time, I am thinking a decade or so, but, I dont see a big majority of the current resin casters switching over, I see it as my generation, and the one after me, I see those people becoming the next wave of resin casters minus the resin and casting,  every generation  brings new ways of doing things, I really have no idea, I am just guessing at this point


Edited by martinfan5, 16 January 2013 - 05:56 PM.


#50 Harry P.

Harry P.

    MCM Ohana

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,833 posts
  • Location:NW suburban Chicago
  • Full Name:A mere layman...

Posted 16 January 2013 - 06:20 PM

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see any way that this technology won't be a big part of our hobby in just a few years. Will it replace traditional kits? No, not right away. Just like digital cameras didn't replace film cameras right away. And flat screen TVs didn't replace CRT TVs right away. And digital downloads didn't replace CDs right away. But when was the last time a new technology this different and this unique and this innovative didn't make it to the mainstream?

 

Pat, I'm not attacking you. I'm just saying that it's unrealistic (in my opinion) to think that this technology is going to fizzle out and go away when it already exists and is this close to being a mainstream product at mainstream prices.

 

You personally may not like it or have any interest in it, but it's coming, and I'd be willing to bet that it's going to fundamentally change the hobby.



#51 Edsel-Dan

Edsel-Dan

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,388 posts
  • Location:Pocomoke, Maryland
  • Full Name:Daniel Lee Gunter

Posted 16 January 2013 - 06:29 PM

Why did anyone say a car, etc body could not be printed due to lack of internal material. 

Aren't they Suppose to be hollow??

 

The only solid models I have are the trophy tops in a few kits, and maybe one or 2 OLD Diecast

ones, one Old wooden one and a few of the Cast "Wooden Ooden" nascars.

 

Since we go to so much trouble detailing the interior, why would anyone think the body would be printed out solid?

 

They can print out a Working Assembled Adjustable wrench why not a correct hollow car, etc body??

 

In-fact, isn't a member here doing just that for resin masters??
Amphicar, etc??

 

As to replacing kits, not for several years. 50-100?? Maybe

 

So far, what I see as the most difficult part will be the cement needed.

Plastruct uses ABS  for their primary offereings, Sheet, tube, etc. I still have not

found the right cement/glue for them, even that offered BY Plastruct is no where

near as good as plain old testor's tube can be on Kit styrene, 

Evergreen & even Plastruct's Styrene accept it just as well.

 

Superglue/ACC, & even epoxy are not that good at holding on Plastruct's material.

If the printout is even close to that..................



#52 Harry P.

Harry P.

    MCM Ohana

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,833 posts
  • Location:NW suburban Chicago
  • Full Name:A mere layman...

Posted 16 January 2013 - 06:35 PM

I don't know how many of you guys watch "This Old House," but a couple of seasons ago they featured an architectural firm that prints out their models on a 3-D printer. The models come out of the printer completely detailed inside and out... roof shingles, doors and windows, even interior wall and floor finishes...in full 3-D and in full color... right out of the printer! And this was a couple of years ago! Can there be any doubt that this technology is right around the corner for all of us?



#53 CadillacPat

CadillacPat

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 771 posts
  • Location:Houston
  • Full Name:Pat Parker

Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:02 PM

Thank you Casey,

Harry I understand youir anxiousness,

What I don't underxstand is why my responses are not read and understood clearly.

I am glad you have agreed with me that it may be "coming" and that you finally admitted it could take a decade.  That is 10 years.

But, all this talk about it being here and ready to put on top of our desks and replace what we have used for 75 years is ludicrous.

Office Depot where I get all my printers does not have anything that will print out Models.  I've never heard of anyone in Houston having one at home on their desk.

 

I haven't addressed anything by Martinfan for some time for obvious reasons.  I've been told to just ignore him.

I don't need or care about extra post counts.

 

Tell you what Harry,

I can see this whole 3D thing is very emotional for you, your own personal crusade, and being as overtly passionate about it as you are may mean you are also passionate for other aspects of the Hobby.  Hopefully.

So, you can have all and any future threads about supposed 3D Printing.  It's all conjecture anyway.

 

No one here is posting pics of the complete Models with all their parts, that they have printed on a 3D Printer.

I don't care about one obscure person printing out distributor caps or tiny non essential pieces where durability and precision does not matter.

 

What I do find backwards is, this is a Forum.

I have seen 25 DieCast Customizing Forums crumble and vanish from cliques only allowing viewpoints ffrom a selective group of favorite Members.

I see the same thing on several other Model Forums.

Nobody else who disagreed with this subject was attacked or even replied to, just me.

I did not try to steal anyone's thunder, just present a realistic point of view.

 

Remember, change means being able to accept another person's viewpoint.

Change just for the sake of change is meaningless and does not necessarily make things better.

 

If Barbara Eden (Genie for those who don'[t know) pops out of the bottle tomorrow morning and has a magic Printer it will still only be interesting to a small percentage of those who build Models.

 

CadillacPat


Edited by CadillacPat, 16 January 2013 - 08:06 PM.


#54 Harry P.

Harry P.

    MCM Ohana

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,833 posts
  • Location:NW suburban Chicago
  • Full Name:A mere layman...

Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:13 PM

Pat, I don't get why you feel like you're somehow being attacked.

 

We all have our own opinions. You, me, everyone. And we're all free to post our opinions. As far as 3-D printing goes, yes, you and I disagree. But we can disagree without feeling like we're attacking each other, right?

 

The whole point of a forum is expressing our views. We're never going to all agree on anything. There are just way too many members here to think that we could all ever agree on anything. But disagreements and opposing viewpoints don't mean that the people who disagree are enemies. I have my opinion on 3-D printing... and you have yours. Time will tell which of us was right.



#55 martinfan5

martinfan5

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,424 posts
  • Location:Los Santos, San Andreas
  • Full Name:Jonathan Stephens

Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:36 PM


 

I haven't addressed anything by Martinfan for some time for obvious reasons.  I've been told to just ignore him.

I don't need or care about extra post counts.

 


 

Remember, change means being able to accept another person's viewpoint.

 


 

CadillacPat

Why not?,  I responded to what you said, without resorting to being rude to you,  trying to be respectful to you.  What does anything have to do with extra post counts?

 

Just like Harry said no of us are going agree on everything in life, and thats just a part of life.

 

Again no one is saying that 3D printing is going to be on everyones desk's tomorrow , its going to take time for it to come into the hobby and be just as mainstream if you will like resin casting is.  

 

Why dont you like 3D printing?, or why do you come off as being opposed to it?,  sure its not going to be perfect, its going to take time for it, and there are draw backs to it as well. 


Edited by martinfan5, 16 January 2013 - 08:37 PM.


#56 Chas SCR

Chas SCR

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 716 posts
  • Location:Michigan
  • Full Name:Chas Cochran

Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:00 PM

Pat you have to look at it like this, The C-N-C lathes only been main stream since 1983 and programing and such. Now you can have one in your house since 1990s. This is only going to go so fast and it will take time. Not a lot of people are going to understand how to do it other then the younger kids as they are learing this type stuff already in school.  Just like I remember the day we were able to to be 1 of 3 High Schools in Michigan to have a C-N-C mill, When we did the VoEd compitition at GM in 1984 there was only 19 kids in that group that could run the machine. That was out of all the school in Michigan. Now look at it. They are passed that and learing engineering in high school level now with the computers. The same is going to be with this 3d printing. If you can buy one just to play around I strong'ly would do it if you are young enuff to under stand the programing. The older group of people are not going  to go out of this circle and do such a thing. Yes the price will be down to a point but I will say you will not see any thing under $300 plus you still have to buy a program of some kind. The way computers are out dated every 2 years I would say a package deal for a good one that can make parts smooth as normal kit body and they have it already down to that point. You are looking at $400 will be the lowest for the full package.



#57 Lownslow

Lownslow

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,844 posts
  • Location:West Side Chicago
  • Full Name:Frank Rizzo

Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:24 PM

Any pictures of parts or cars made? I would like to see the quality.

 

Heres stuff i had made before i learned about Meshes and Polygon counts making a difference in finish.

 

 

8BpV3.jpg
2adZW.jpg
ubFto.jpg
1zk9i.jpg
ID7Py.jpg
 
this is another builders work this displays the quality of the various materials price point reflects output. 
pJlbg.jpg


#58 martinfan5

martinfan5

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,424 posts
  • Location:Los Santos, San Andreas
  • Full Name:Jonathan Stephens

Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:35 PM

How durable is it?,  is it on the same level as a kit?,resin?



#59 Janthlie

Janthlie

    MCM Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 49 posts
  • Location:Norway
  • Full Name:Jan-Thomas Eng Lie

Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:52 PM

And with 3d scanners begining to become cheap as well, the design will become more easy as well. At 123DCatch you can upload normal pictures, 20-40 of the subject, and get a 3d rendering you can use. So designwise its getting a lot easier too. You dont need to have superskillz in 3d modeling anymore to get good models for 3d printing.



#60 Lownslow

Lownslow

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,844 posts
  • Location:West Side Chicago
  • Full Name:Frank Rizzo

Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:01 PM

How durable is it?,  is it on the same level as a kit?,resin?

Very, depending on your design i learned from my prototypes now every wheel i get made is a 3 piece wheel. Yes but then that also depends on its design, my wheels look raw because in order to get a smoother model they needed to have a higher polygon(triangles) count the ones i posted fall between 14k to 22k ive been trying to get my count up to 50k. The ones i have are like a resin compound never ordered anything less than SLA printed models so i cant say for the compound of the other 2 but theyre either PLA or ABS.