16 replies to this topic

[Merc49]

I pretty much know it's a Hemi, but I need to know if it's a first generation Hemi or a second gen engine, because I am building a car inspired by the December 1955 Hot Rod cover car, and would prefer a period correct engine. Can someone help me on this?

 

 1932 Ford Five Window Coupe 1955 Hot Rod Cover Car.jpg   52.96K   10 downloads 

Edited by Merc49, 24 January 2013 - 04:25 PM.

[Casey]

It's an early Hemi, which has the distributor at the rear of the engine.

 

The Moebius Chrysler 300 kit might a good donor for the early Hemi:

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Casey's right of course...it's a first-gen engine backed up with a four-speed. It's not bad, though the 4-speed is too new for 1955, and for some reason known only to Revell, the exhaust headers have a screwed up port spacing; the correct port spacing is even, not wonky staggered. The cast alloy valve covers represented weren't available in '55 either.

 

An excellent first gen Chrysler Firepower Hemi with the right OEM valve covers and what was a popular gearbox...a LaSalle 3-speed...is in the old Revell Miss Deal funny car kit. It's the same engine that was in the impossible-to-find Revell Hemi Parts Pack.

[Longbox55]

 

An excellent first gen Chrysler Firepower Hemi with the right OEM valve covers and what was a popular gearbox...a LaSalle 3-speed...is in the old Revell Miss Deal funny car kit. It's the same engine that was in the impossible-to-find Revell Hemi Parts Pack.

That engine was also in the Hemi Hydro speedboat kit, too.

[1972coronet]

4 speed in 1955 ?

Not a factory piece . Chrysler didn't have a 4 speed until 1964 (the A-833) with the exceptions of :

- 1962 Chrysler 300 with the radical , optional solid lifter cam , had a Pont-A-Musson gearbox (a French truck trans)

- 1963 Max Wedge Super Stock used a "stop-gap" (e.g. , a substitute until their own 833 could be released) Borg-Warner T-10

 

Isn't the trans in the Moebius '55 300 the Powerflite 2 speed (a short-lived predecessor to the A-466 / A-488 TorqueFlite) ?

[Casey]

Isn't the trans in the Moebius '55 300 the Powerflite 2 speed (a short-lived predecessor to the A-466 / A-488 TorqueFlite) ?

 

It appears to be an auto trans in the Moebius kit.

 

Maybe this'd be a good place to discuss which early Hemis found are found in which kits, and which of those early Hemis is "the best".

 

Is the AMT '57 Chrysler's Hemi better than the Moebius 300's?  I recall the Monogram Boothill Express' early Hemi has nice valve covers, but the rest of the engine isn't so hot, and IIRC, the Lil Coffin includes the same valve covers as the BE.

[Merc49]

Thanks guys, for all the information. I more or less knew about the valve covers, but it was the transmission that bothered me. I'm on a bit of a budget and I'll see what I've got in my parts box.

[Merc49]

Whoops! I discovered, after a bit of research, that the December 1955 cover car was equipped with a full house Mercury flathead.Thanks anyway for the information, I feel like I wasted your time.  

[Ace-Garageguy]

4 speed in 1955 ?

Not a factory piece . Chrysler didn't have a 4 speed until 1964 (the A-833) with the exceptions of :

- 1962 Chrysler 300 with the radical , optional solid lifter cam , had a Pont-A-Musson gearbox (a French truck trans)

- 1963 Max Wedge Super Stock used a "stop-gap" (e.g. , a substitute until their own 833 could be released) Borg-Warner T-10

 

Isn't the trans in the Moebius '55 300 the Powerflite 2 speed (a short-lived predecessor to the A-466 / A-488 TorqueFlite) ?

Not sure where you got "4 speed in 1955". The 4-speed I mentioned as backing up the "custom V8"  (called the "highboy engine" on my instruction sheet) in the Revell '32 (which portrays a contemporary street rod) appears to be an A-833 based on the shape of the gear housing, the tailshaft housing and the number and spacing of the bolts on the side-cover. There are other details that substantiate this, but the shape of the side-cover is slightly off.

 

As you correctly state, this would not be an appropriate trans for a period-correct build representing a 1955 vehicle.

 

The two most common transmissions used behind Hemi engines in 1955 hot-rods would have been: 1) the ubiquitous Ford 3-speed (an adaptor is used to mate it to the block) with or without a closer-ratio gearset from a (Lincoln) Zephyr. The Ford box wasn't strong enough to withstand the torque from the Hemi for long under enthusiastic usage. 2) the LaSalle / Cadillac / Oldsmobile 3-speed, all versions of the same basic trans, stronger than the Ford and available in various tailshaft and rear universal joint configurations by mix-and-matching of parts. Again, an adaptor was used to mate the gearbox to the engine.

 

A less common alternative was a big Packard 3-speed, again requiring an adaptor and other mods to work in the Ford chassis.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 26 January 2013 - 05:36 AM.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Whoops! I discovered, after a bit of research, that the December 1955 cover car was equipped with a full house Mercury flathead.Thanks anyway for the information, I feel like I wasted your time.  

If you're going for accuracy, you may still need a gearbox swap, as the little Ford box would routinely give up behind a full-house Merc, and your subject car may have had a LaSalle or Packard box in it.

[LDO]

Or just don't turn it over :-D
How many people see the trans in a real car???

[Merc49]

I think I might have a flathead with a LaSalle box somewhere. If I don't, well I won't turn it over!

[High octane]

Replica & Miniatures of Maryland has some good parts for that Hemi that comes in the 5-Window Coupe kit if you're interested.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I think I might have a flathead with a LaSalle box somewhere. If I don't, well I won't turn it over!

I've got some spare LaSalles if you need one.

[1972coronet]

Not sure where you got "4 speed in 1955". The 4-speed I mentioned as backing up the "custom V8"  (called the "highboy engine" on my instruction sheet) in the Revell '32 (which portrays a contemporary street rod) appears to be an A-833 based on the shape of the gear housing, the tailshaft housing and the number and spacing of the bolts on the side-cover. There are other details that substantiate this, but the shape of the side-cover is slightly off.

 

As you correctly state, this would not be an appropriate trans for a period-correct build representing a 1955 vehicle.

 

The two most common transmissions used behind Hemi engines in 1955 hot-rods would have been: 1) the ubiquitous Ford 3-speed (an adaptor is used to mate it to the block) with or without a closer-ratio gearset from a (Lincoln) Zephyr. The Ford box wasn't strong enough to withstand the torque from the Hemi for long under enthusiastic usage. 2) the LaSalle / Cadillac / Oldsmobile 3-speed, all versions of the same basic trans, stronger than the Ford and available in various tailshaft and rear universal joint configurations by mix-and-matching of parts. Again, an adaptor was used to mate the gearbox to the engine.

 

A less common alternative was a big Packard 3-speed, again requiring an adaptor and other mods to work in the Ford chassis.

After reading my post (the one which you've quoted) , even I can't tell you where I got the "4 speed in 1955" statement either .

Thanks for the indepth info ; I'd always wondered about what transmissions interchanged with early "Gen 1" Hemi's .

_______________________________________________________________________________

 

Casey : My vote for best early Hemi is a tie :

1.) De Soto Firedome in the AMT 1953 F-100 , or ;

2.) Chrysler 392 in the 1957 Chrysler 300 (got to love that 488 T-flite !)

[Merc49]

I've looked around in my parts box, and I DO have a flathead with a LaSalle box! Thanks anyway, Bill!

[gtx6970]

 

It appears to be an auto trans in the Moebius kit.

 

 

 

Is the AMT '57 Chrysler's Hemi better than the Moebius 300's?  

 

All 1955 Chrysler 300's  were 331 Hemi with a 2 speed power flite trans .

 

I am going to need an early Hemi for a Funnycar build so I may have to do some comparisions to see which one is best.

I have the 55 and 57 chryslers as well as the miss deal car to do some camparisons