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Why Reinvent the Wheels? New Kit Wheel Whining...


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#1 Erik Smith

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:17 PM

Why are kit makers starting to use this style (or similar) wheel?

5BD64EAF-57A5-449D-AF76-6E27915FCF28-130

The kind with a ridge or pegs around the middle that fit in a groove on the tire. Why?

It is hard to get the wheels in the tire without scratching the paint or stretching tire decals. You can't use the wheels in other tires.

Moebius does them. Revell - most notably in the Rat Roaster - does them. I can't see an advantage other than to bother me.

Edited by Erik Smith, 27 January 2013 - 06:18 PM.


#2 MsDano85gt

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:41 PM

Cut off the tabs with a fresh exacto blade or sand them down with a dremel/ rotary tool leave maybe 3-4 standing to still hold the rim in position within the tire then call it good :)

#3 Chuck Most

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:16 PM

Grind off those 'paddles' and the Moebius wheels will fit inside a typical AMT/MPC tire-

HUDSON001-vi.jpg

 

And to solve the problem of marring the sidewall, just push the wheel into the tire from behind- you still might scrape the sidewall, but it's less noticable on the inner side of the tire, and no chance it'll scratch up a printed or decal whitewall.

 

As to why some manufacturers are going to that design... can't help you there. I've wondered what if any advantages attaching the tire this way has over the long-standing two-piece wheel.



#4 Casey

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:58 PM

I've wondered what if any advantages attaching the tire this way has over the long-standing two-piece wheel.

 

Simplicity?

 

I don't care for this style of wheel, either, but they can be made in one-piece, and still locate positively in the tire. Plus, the builder needn't worry about getting any glue not paint on the tires, since the wheels are finished prior to installation inside the tire...which brings us back to Erik's points.  :D

 

Revell has been using these for a few years (maybe a decade plus?) on their Snap Tite kit wheels. I think the '34 Ford coupe might've been one of the first to use them, but the '77 Monte, '57 Bel Air, '63 Vette, and others use the same style wheels.

 

My thought is they originated in die-cast model kits, as they seem to be easier to assemble in a production setting where a perfect installation on the tires isn't nearly as critical. I want to say the Revell '68 Mustang kits have this style of wheels, too, and the Bullitt and '68 CJ kits were based on a die-cast model. Maybe the same thin with the Vanishing Point '70 Challenger, too?



#5 Chuck Most

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:11 PM

 

Simplicity?

 

I don't care for this style of wheel, either, but they can be made in one-piece, and still locate positively in the tire. Plus, the builder needn't worry about getting any glue not paint on the tires, since the wheels are finished prior to installation inside the tire...which brings us back to Erik's points.  :D

 

Revell has been using these for a few years (maybe a decade plus?) on their Snap Tite kit wheels. I think the '34 Ford coupe might've been one of the first to use them, but the '77 Monte, '57 Bel Air, '63 Vette, and others use the same style wheels.

 

My thought is they originated in die-cast model kits, as they seem to be easier to assemble in a production setting where a perfect installation on the tires isn't nearly as critical. I want to say the Revell '68 Mustang kits have this style of wheels, too, and the Bullitt and '68 CJ kits were based on a die-cast model. Maybe the same thin with the Vanishing Point '70 Challenger, too?

I've never gotten any glue or paint on the tire assembling the two-piece type, maybe that's just me.... ^_^  Of course now that I've come right out and said it I'll routinely get glue and paint smudges on my tires when installing them on two piece wheels.

 

You are correct about them being common to die cast model kits, and if you've ever taken apart a factory built diecast you'll see that many of them have the wheels engineered the same way as well. Personally, though, I don't see them being that much easier to deal with than a typical two-piece wheel. And there are some wheels (like the Revell '50 Olds) which are two-piece but still accept the tire via the ribs molded to the outside... wouldn't that type of design really rule out any simplicity advantage the one-piece wheel design might have over the typical two-piece design?



#6 Casey

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:29 PM

And there are some wheels (like the Revell '50 Olds) which are two-piece but still accept the tire via the ribs molded to the outside... wouldn't that type of design really rule out any simplicity advantage the one-piece wheel design might have over the typical two-piece design?

 

I used to like you, Most.  <_<  :lol:  :P  Yes, it definitely would, though.

 

At least they didn't do it the way Minicraft did with it's hot rodded 1/16 Model A kits....horrible.  :wacko:



#7 Chuck Most

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:42 PM

 

 

At least they didn't do it the way Minicraft did with it's hot rodded 1/16 Model A kits....horrible.  :wacko:

The one where there's no inner sidewall at all? Yeah. Could be worse...



#8 gtx6970

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:24 AM

Probably has more to do with costs. 1 piece design = less material . means cheaper to tool up + to manufacturer = a small costs savings per kit.

Might be only a few pennies per kit, but figure that over hundreds of thousands of kits and the costs add up pretty quick


Edited by gtx6970, 28 January 2013 - 03:52 AM.


#9 slusher

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:19 AM

I believed they did it to stop us from interchanging wheels with different kits...



#10 plowboy

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:51 AM

I don't like them either. But, so far I haven't had any problems mixing and matching them with other tires. The ribs do sometimes help with some of the older hollow tires.



#11 Blown03SVT

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:35 AM

From a realism stand point, automotive rims generally are not assembled in two halves trapping a tire. I agree that trimming the "nibs" down would allow to slide into the tire easier.

#12 Rob Hall

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:32 AM

The new Revell wheel mounting approach reminds me of the style I've seen w/ cheaper diecasts.



#13 62rebel

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:05 AM

new is bad! different is bad! starting to feel like i'm on the island of dr moreau......



#14 Rob Hall

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:16 AM

new is bad! different is bad! starting to feel like i'm on the island of dr moreau......

Nothing wrong w/ new or different, I don't see any improvement w/ this style of mounting wheels into tires compared w/ the traditional approach.



#15 Erik Smith

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:29 PM

new is bad! different is bad! starting to feel like i'm on the island of dr moreau......


Care to elaborate what exactly this means?

#16 zenrat

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:47 PM

I believed they did it to stop us from interchanging wheels with different kits...

 

Why would they do that?

Surely they would want us to buy more new kits in order to get the new wheels to put on our older kits.

 

Just be thankful AMT engineered their new parts pack tyres to fit the "old style" wheels and not the new ones...



#17 James2

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:51 PM



 or stretching tire decals. 

 

 

You could try putting the wheel in the tire then the decal!

Cutting the paddles off is easy enough.



#18 Jordan White

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:43 PM

I wish they would stop using the two piece wheels and just go to a one piece design, similar to how Japanese companies such as Tamiya do it. That way you can use any extra wheels with another set of tires, without having to worry about finding a set of wheel backs that fit properly. Plus, with the space saved on the parts trees, brakes could then be molded instead.



#19 Erik Smith

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:15 PM

 
You could try putting the wheel in the tire then the decal!
Cutting the paddles off is easy enough.

I dull coat the tire and decal, though.

Yes, cutting off the paddles is easy. It's not necessary though. Plus, try cutting off the ribs on some of the Revell wheels - one (i think they are the steel wheels in a Mustang kit) has a big ring plus ribs. It's not hard, I just don't like to waste 10 or 20 minutes doing it.

Edited by Erik Smith, 28 January 2013 - 04:15 PM.


#20 martinfan5

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:36 PM

They probably are doing it so we cant swap out kit tires for tires that have sidewall detail on them, I guess they dont want us to have models with sidewall detail tires on them :lol:

 

I dont like it either, and would love to see them go to the one piece wheels with out backing more often, I know a lot of the new subjects have the one piece wheels, with metal axle pins