85 replies to this topic

[Chuck Kourouklis]

 

Exactly, Fenders would ruin and destroy this naked effect giving the car body, form and appeal.

Otherwise it's just a shiny Ratrod.

 

It looks like it left the house without a shirt on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Eye of the beholder, I guess, Pat. If you like the idea of fenders bumping excrescences over the profile of the deck and the nose, more power to you. Not at all opposed to fenders m'self - just not on this car.

 

"Shiny Ratrod", woo. Some kind of indictment there...

[Blown03SVT]

So if I wanted to see a full photo history of all the AMBR winners since 1950 where wuold I go? Would love to compare the change in styles over the years.

[CadillacPat]

 

Eye of the beholder, I guess, Pat. If you like the idea of fenders bumping excrescences over the profile of the deck and the nose, more power to you. Not at all opposed to fenders m'self - just not on this car.

 

"Shiny Ratrod", woo. Some kind of indictment there...

 

Thanks Chuck,

I do like the idea of fender bumping excrescences!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If Junior High English still serves, an excrescence is a normal outgrowth of the body, something that should be there, naturally.

 

So yeah, It would only seem normal to me to give the body a bit more pizazz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Nice paint and dash, it's just missing something as a driver.

 

CadillacPat

[SoCalCarCulture]

So if I wanted to see a full photo history of all the AMBR winners since 1950 where wuold I go? Would love to compare the change in styles over the years.

 

Google!

Absolutely beautiful!  If it were art work (which it is, as in sculpture) it would be in the minimalist style.  The return to the so called traditional style is in effect a statement against the "billet mania" which took over the Hot Rod hobby in the 80's and 90's.  This car blends the best of extremely rare old Hot Rod parts and blends todays best techniques and materials. Takes a really talented bodyman and painter to get a dark color like maroon that flawless. 

 

For those who have opined that this isn't bringing the hobby forward, how many new ways can you hack up an old car to make a statement Vs. how clean can a car be made and still include all the essentials?  Fenders would ruin the intent of this car all together.   It's a "what if statement".  What if todays building techniques and materials existed during the dry lakes period?

 

Not sure what the criticism over the colors are?  It looks like most are variations and or compliments of the deep maroon body color, i.e. red is a warmer variation of the cooler maroon says "Hot Engine".  The wheel color compliments the maroon.  The tobacco colored leather is a most likely a mixture of the natural leathers tan darkened with a touch of maroon and brown dyes, either way it is on the slightly warmer side of maroon's compliment.  Did I say I love the colors...

 

 

Wow, someone who "gets it"!

[Blown03SVT]

I did in fact Google it... http://www.gregwapli...l-roadster.html I was asking to see if there was a better web site that all of the winners listed. Not a hunt and peck on Google or Bing. Thanks for taking the time to be one of those guys. I feel honored

[Casey]

So if I wanted to see a full photo history of all the AMBR winners since 1950 where wuold I go? Would love to compare the change in styles over the years.

 

I don't know, but this might help a bit: http://www.rodshows....nrs-lindig.html

 

Looking at the AMBR winners since 2006, I can see why this one took the prize. Five of the last six winners look dated already. 

 

Let's stick to discussing the car, please. 

[timc]

I think it is as close to the perfect rod as you can get.I don't see anything wrong with it except that it's not parked at my house.The paint and polish are flawless and the interior looks to be very comfortable. As far as the flattie, I bet it purrs like a kitten and roars like a tiger when you stand on it.I give this a 10+.   

At least it's not a Foose or a Boydster,those guys have ruined too many good cars with their sickening creations."Not everybody likes billet"

I like it and best of all it looks to be "Made in the USA"

[Chuck Kourouklis]

Well, this car was conceived with a pretty clear track influence, and track cars of the era were generally open-wheeled.  And one really sweet aspect of  the design is the lyrical homage it pays to those open wheels, most particularly in their placement.

 

That's why fenders on this car - not saying ANY design here, just this one - would inevitably be an "unattractive or superfluous addition or feature" (the definition of "excrescence" I actually meant).

[Ace-Garageguy]

Absolutely beautiful!  If it were art work (which it is, as in sculpture) it would be in the minimalist style.  The return to the so called traditional style is in effect a statement against the "billet mania" which took over the Hot Rod hobby in the 80's and 90's.  This car blends the best of extremely rare old Hot Rod parts and blends todays best techniques and materials. Takes a really talented bodyman and painter to get a dark color like maroon that flawless. 

 

For those who have opined that this isn't bringing the hobby forward, how many new ways can you hack up an old car to make a statement Vs. how clean can a car be made and still include all the essentials?  Fenders would ruin the intent of this car all together.   It's a "what if statement".  What if todays building techniques and materials existed during the dry lakes period?

 

Not sure what the criticism over the colors are?  It looks like most are variations and or compliments of the deep maroon body color, i.e. red is a warmer variation of the cooler maroon says "Hot Engine".  The wheel color compliments the maroon.  The tobacco colored leather is a most likely a mixture of the natural leathers tan darkened with a touch of maroon and brown dyes, either way it is on the slightly warmer side of maroon's compliment.  Did I say I love the colors...

 

 

Well, this car was conceived with a pretty clear track influence, and track cars of the era were generally open-wheeled.  And one really sweet aspect of  the design is the lyrical homage it pays to those open wheels, most particularly in their placement.

 

That's why fenders on this car - not saying ANY design here, just this one - would inevitably be an "unattractive or superfluous addition or feature" (the definition of "excrescence" I actually meant).

 

 

Exactly. Frankly I thought everything Skip and Chuck mentioned was so entirely self-evident on this stunning car that it wouldn't need to be mentioned. Glad they put into words what this car is all about.

 

I personally got burned out on the whole hot-rod scene when it seemed to be becoming more of an exercise in seeing how much distracting crappola could be subsituted for purposeful design, proportion and flow, a trend that spilled over into the rat-rod thing even as it was a stated rebellion against the billet and Easter-egg-color cars.

 

A few of the super-smooth cars like the Coddington Aluma Coupe were spectacularly visionary, in combining state-of-the-art mechanicals and tech with an obviously traditionally-influenced profile. That car pointed to the true future of hot-rodding, if it's going to continue to exist in it's most basic and honest form (going to the junkyard to source and re-purpose bits to build a go-fast car with personality and style, cheaper than something of comparable looks and performance could be bought). The major parts that make up this year's AMBR, though now rare and expensive, were in the early days cast-off junk (all except the Ardun head conversion and the Kinmonts). Today's wrecking yards have no flathead 60s, '37 tubular axles or '27 T bodies, but true high performance engines, brakes and gearboxes abound, paintiently waiting for someone's creative touch to rise above their humble just-transportation beginnings.

 

This year's AMBR is very beautiful, and is as much 'automobile-as-artform' as it is hot-rod.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 01 February 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[Monty]

Allow me to hijack this thread for just a second since I know virtually nothing about old iron.  What kind of power could you expect to get out of an engine like that with the Ardun heads, multiple carbs etc? 

[MachinistMark]

Not much.

[2002p51]

Allow me to hijack this thread for just a second since I know virtually nothing about old iron.  What kind of power could you expect to get out of an engine like that with the Ardun heads, multiple carbs etc? 

 

Oh a couple hundred probably, maybe 300 tops, more than enough in a car as small and light as that. But in reality, it isn't about horsepower. It's about style, tradition, and using something because it's "right". (And in the case of the Ardun heads there's just a little tiny bit of "showoff" because those things are seriously freakin' expensive!)

 

I have two flathead powered cars and the more you know about flatheads, the more you find out that they are an absolutely terrible design for making horsepower. (And horsepower wasn't why Henry designed them that way anyhow.) For the same amount of money I have in the 110-120 HP engine in my roadster, I could've built a 500 HP small block Chevy. But the flathead was the "right" engine for the style of our car. Besides, at only 1,940 pounds, it scoots right along! 

[Ace-Garageguy]

The V8-60 powering this car started life as the small flathead of 136 cu.in, as opposed to the 221/239/255 cu.in. engines in the more familiar flathead range. With the OHV Ardun conversion and a mild, streetable cam, one-horsepower-per-cubic-inch, a magical number back then, would have been easily attainable.

 

136 HP in a 1500 pound car (a fenderless car in California during the period represented would have to have weighed less than 1500lbs.) is a pretty good power-to-weight ratio of about 11 pounds per horsepower. A 350-powered 1969 Corvette, for comparison, had about 10 pounds per horsepower, and was pretty quick. That performance in the early '50s would have been impressive indeed.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 01 February 2013 - 02:36 PM.

[Blown03SVT]

The V8-60 powering this car started life as the small flathead of 136 cu.in, as opposed to the 221/239/255 cu.in. engines in the more familiar flathead range. With the OHV Ardun conversion and a mild, streetable cam, one-horsepower-per-cubic-inch, a magical number back then, would have been easily attainable.

 

136 HP in a 1500 pound car (a fenderless car in California during the period represented would have to have weighed less than 1500lbs.) is a pretty good power-to-weight ratio of about 11 pounds per horsepower. A 350-powered 1969 Corvette, for comparison, had about 10 pounds per horsepower, and was pretty quick. That performance in the early '50s would have been impressive indeed.

and nothing sounds quite as awesome as a hopped up flattie 

[styromaniac]

Rolls Royce Merlins in P-51 Mustangs.

Hopped up flatties in period perfect hot rods.

They just sound so right.

[Draggon]

Allow me to hijack this thread for just a second since I know virtually nothing about old iron.  What kind of power could you expect to get out of an engine like that with the Ardun heads, multiple carbs etc? 

Its all about the fun. I had a built VW in the 70's, it was a heck of a lot of fun, especially against the multitude of late 60's 283 powerglide Camaros. Maybe pushing only 80 hp on dual Webber carbs. Never got 'em on the top end, but played havoc at the line. Thats real fun! Fast forward a decade, and I had a 5.0 T-top Stang. The only thing fun about it was the donuts. The worst car I've ever owned. Fun and cool isnt all about horespower!

Edited by Draggon, 01 February 2013 - 06:17 PM.

[oldcarfan]

Love this car! Color is great too. So good to see cars that look like hot rods that could be driven. I like Chip Foose and all those guys, but there cars lack  personality. They are sort of the Toyota Camry of hot rods, competent but bland.

[Chuck Kourouklis]

and nothing sounds quite as awesome as a hopped up flattie 

 

Man, you can say that again!  It's kinda like what, four Harleys with custom pipes in one?

[G Holding]

and nothing sounds quite as awesome as a hopped up flattie 

 And a BLOWN flattie is even better   

[Bernard Kron]

Great thread! I’ve enjoyed the various reactions to this car and have been surprised a bit by the strength of emotion it has triggered. AMBR winners have always reflected the prevailing trend in state-of-the-art rod building at the time. The 1950 winner, the Niekamp roadster pictured above, was a serious, bucks-up piece of kit at that time, with it’s fabricated aluminum track nose and full bellypan and full house flattie under the hood. When Fad-T’s were the fad, Fad-T’s won the AMBR. When show rods were all the rage the hot rod equivalent of a show rod would win.

 

This year the Traditional movement may appear to have broken through, but not before 20 years of trying. Elements of this style have shown themselves among the AMBR’s of recent years, but not to this level of purity. The Rodder’s Journal style modern recreation of a traditional postwar hot rod has finally achieved its AMBR win. But this style of building has been around since it emerged in the final decade of the last century. It is a reaction against the hi-tech excellence first launched by the late Lil’ John Buttera and the late Boyd Coddington at the end of the 70’s; a trend that would establish itself with a vengeance in the next decade and come to be known, unfortunately, as “Billet”. Buttera, Coddington, and their contemporaries made a conscious attempt to propel rod building into a more technically and stylistically modern idiom. As recently as last year this trend still informed the aesthetic of AMBR winners. The result, inevitably, was a longing for a more “roots” experience, an emerging trend documented in the pages of TRJ. 2013 marks the emergence of this trend onto the very top step of the hobby’s hierarchy of recognition. (But not before authentic restorations of historic rods and customs have been shown on multiple occasions at Pebble Beach.)

 

This years’ AMBR, like most years, represents the current establishment in the rodding world. Longtime traditional rod re-creation and restoration enthusiast John Mumford bankrolled this “continuation” of a 30 year old project started by Kelly Brown. Roy Brizio’s shop (rod builders to the stars, much as Barris was in his day) built it, mainly from scratch, except for the more obvious bits like the beyond-rare Ardun V8-60 heads. It was even a bare-metal feature a couple of issues back in TRJ. It seems to me that Brizio and Mumford knew what they were on to since they totally nailed the color (an evocation of Ford Honduras Maroon, a popular customizer’s color on either side of WWII) and trim. It’s instructive to compare this car with last year’s AMBR which was, highly significantly, also a ‘27T style track roadster, in that case built by Jimmy Shine and Pete Chapouris. Shine and Chapouris are also members of the Traditional establishment, but didn’t quite “turn the corner” into such a hard core build as this one.

 

Personally, as much as I love traditional rods (they are at this point the only style of car I model), I feel myself longing for the day we will be able to take the lessons we learned from Buttera, Coddington, et al, and blend them with the powerful beauty, the near perfection of form and function, of this exquisite little car, and create a new idiom. The Aluma Coupe was a spectacularly brilliant piece of design and engineering, the Boydsters a brave experiment in creating a New Age rodding idiom which unfortunately got grotesquely played out in the ensuing years. As Bill has pointed out, scale modeling gives us the means to start this journey on a modest budget. Let us begin!

 

The Bill Lindig "indy" Roadster - 2012 AMBR Winner

 

Edited by Bernard Kron, 02 February 2013 - 05:24 PM.