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Making a shortbed version of the Model King Ford 4x4 kit


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#1 mikemodeler

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:13 AM

Has anyone created a shortbed version of the Model King 4x4? I have one of these kits to build and I really want to make it a shortbed but was hoping someone has pictures of doing one already. I know the frame and bed will need to chopped down, is it possible to use the kit bed? I thought I had seen a resin bed on eBay at one time but IIRC it was a rough casting with much work to be done to make it presentable.

 

Any and all help is appreciated!



#2 plowboy

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:20 AM

I have a real '78 F series with a short bed if/when you need the measurements. I'm planning on doing a replica of my old truck sometime. The fenderwells will need to be moved forward x inches, then the front of the bed cut off.



#3 Edsel-Dan

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:36 AM

I believe ebay member rdsxfan offers a resin Ford Shortbox 

that is Not from R+R.

 

I am not sure if it fits the M-K issue/era ford pickup though.

 

He offers the 62 in both long & short too



#4 mikemodeler

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:01 AM

well blue oval resin use to do them..

http://blue-oval-res...ruck_cabs__beds

 

 

I remember this one, seemed to be a little rough and the wheel wells don't look right to my eyes.



#5 plowboy

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:01 AM

 

 

I remember this one, seemed to be a little rough and the wheel wells don't look right to my eyes.

 

They're not. They're too far back. Looks like he just cut the front portion off and didn't move them forward. The bed may be the right length, but the wheel wells are wrong.



#6 mikemodeler

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:16 PM

 

They're not. They're too far back. Looks like he just cut the front portion off and didn't move them forward. The bed may be the right length, but the wheel wells are wrong.

 

Thanks Roger, I thought my eyes were failing me! Not sure I have the patience to make the correct bedsides for this kit, might have to use a bed from a 90's kit and build it as a beater.



#7 Art Anderson

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:14 PM

Pickup boxes from that era came in two standard sizes:  6.5 foot, and 8 foot.  As a general rule (until later in the 1970's), the difference in length was 12" in front of the wheel arch, 6" behind it.

 

Art



#8 mikemodeler

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:25 PM

Pickup boxes from that era came in two standard sizes:  6.5 foot, and 8 foot.  As a general rule (until later in the 1970's), the difference in length was 12" in front of the wheel arch, 6" behind it.

Art

Thanks Art, I had an idea it was something like that. I think the issue at hand is whether or not the bed sides in the kit can be modified to accurately represent a short bed. I am going to have to find some pictures of a 1:1 and then compare the kit pieces. 



#9 kataranga

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:36 PM

Yes, but, if you do it that way the wheels will still be too far back. The distance between the wheels and the bumper are perfect for a bobbed bed on a Bronco chassis (which I am building) but totally wrong for a 6-3/4 bed. Ford used the same basic chassis from 1965-1996 so you could in theory use an AMT 1:25 1992 F-150 chassis and cut the bed up to fit it.

 

Another option would be to build the bed in steps. Take the long bed, correct it for a 133" wheelbase and then take 18" from the front and 6" from the back and you will have a properly proportioned bed.


Edited by kataranga, 14 February 2013 - 04:38 PM.


#10 Tom Geiger

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:45 PM

e1_3-vi.jpg

 

Here's another option.  The bed in the AMT '53 Ford was still current in this era.  I'm planning on doing one!



#11 mikemodeler

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:45 AM

Steve and Chris-

 

Thanks for the information. I do have a AMT 92 F150 short bed that I can use as a guide for the chassis and bed, sounds like the best way to get it "close enough"!

 

And Tom's idea for a step side had been kicking around in my head also!



#12 plowboy

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:48 AM

Steve and Chris-

 

Thanks for the information. I do have a AMT 92 F150 short bed that I can use as a guide for the chassis and bed, sounds like the best way to get it "close enough"!

 

And Tom's idea for a step side had been kicking around in my head also!

 

They're not the same Mike. Up to 1980, Ford had the fenderwells centered in the bed. From 1980 up, they took the entire 18" off of the front. The bedsides are shorter in front of the wheels than they are behind the wheels.In other words, to make the "Camper Special" bed right, cut it to length first and then center up your fenderwells. You'll have to move them forward roughly seven scale inches.



#13 plowboy

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:07 AM

 
Chris, the difference between the back of the box on a regular long box and a camper special , according to the numbers I got from the brochure is 7".

SO, again according to the numbers, it's only 1" shorter than it should be already according to your numbers [6"]. I don't know about you guys but given the choice between cutting up the fenders to move the opening back one millimeter and calling it good as-is, I'd choose not to do the extra work that 95% of people wouldn't notice anyway, including myself.

But, anyway, that's what I'd do if it were me. Other people may have other ideas about it.

 

 

The beds are the same length, but the wheelbase for a "Camper Special" is 7 inches longer. So, the fenderwells/rearend have to be moved forward 7 inches, not 1. Here's a link to photos of "Camper Specials" as well as regular long beds. http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=78+ford+camper+special&qpvt=78+ford+camper+special&FORM=IGRE#  When you scroll down, you'll see a really nice light blue 2wd "Camper Special" and right below it is a light blue/primer gray 4wd regular long bed. You can clearly see the difference. I tried to post just the photos, but the forum wouldn't allow it for some reason. :rolleyes:



#14 Art Anderson

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:08 AM

  

The AMT '70s Ford is a "Camper Special" though, 8 foot box but longer than standard wheelbase. That rule will not work with that particular truck.
 

OK, that does change things a bit for sure!  A couple of things will be necessary to get the essential measurements:  First, the wheelbase of the short box version, and second, the BBC (Bumper to Back of Cab) dimension.  The latter should be fairly easy to find, as virtually all light commercial sales literature (beyond the smplest sales brochures) back in those days (and probably still do) will show that dimension, for prospective buyers of a cab & chassis version for mounting an aftermarket commercial body.

 

However, even without that, just having the overall length of the short bed pickup, along with the wheelbase, will give the essential information.  In any event, doing a proper short box conversion will involve shortening the box and chassis forward of the rear axle, and with the camper special, there still could be some alteration of the rear overhang needed as well (but that would not be known without the two dimensions I mention in this paragraph.  No matter what, it should not be an insurmountable task though.

 

Art



#15 plowboy

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:32 PM

 
Yes, that's what I've been saying Roger. On a regular 8'bed the wheelwells would have to be moved 6" but on a camper special they already have been moved 7" ,, it wouldn't be worth the time to move them back 1".

Again, I'm saying the ammount needed moved on a camper special is 1", not 6" as on a normal 8' box.

6" +1" IS 7".
 

 

You're still not getting it Steve. The fenderwells need to be moved forward, not rearward. The Camper Special's fenderwells are 7 inches farther rearward than a normal 8 foot or 6.5 foot bed. Whether one is building a regular 8 foot bed or a 6.5 foot bed, the fenderwells on the AMT Camper Special bed must be moved forward to be correct.



#16 mikemodeler

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 03:15 PM

Thanks to all that have posted. I really wish Art was still in the resin business, I would gladly pay him for some resin frames and beds that already had been corrected to the proper dimensions.

 

I will have some free time next weekend and will begin the process of sawing up a bed and frame.



#17 plowboy

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:01 AM

You're thinking of a Chevy Steve. Please look up a '78 "Camper Special" and a short bed. I tried to post photos of them, but the site wouldn't let me. If you can't see the differences after that, I don't know what to tell you. After looking at my '77 F350 kit, I'm not sure the fenderwells will need to be moved forward a full seven inches. They don't look like they are quite as far back as on the real truck. I can take measurements on my real '78 short bed and find out exactly how much they need to be moved. Also, I'll do a quick measurement on the actual length. IIRC, a Ford short bed is longer than 6.5 feet.



#18 mikemodeler

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:55 AM

I could wait for the Mobieus kits to come out later this year- there will be a shortbed and longbed and something tells me that they will be correct. IIRC, the frame on the all new 67 model year was used up into the 90s, so the measurements could be had from those kits.



#19 plowboy

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 06:15 AM

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree Roger. I'm just not seeing what you're saying. I know the box is longer than 6.5, the brochure says it's 6 3/4 or 6.75 feet.

Yes, knowing exactly how much sheetmetal is between the opening and the back if the bed on the real truck would be helpful.

 

Disagree all you want. Facts are facts.

 

Camper Special

 

camperspecial_zps80943476.jpg

 

Short bed

 

fordshortbed_zpsb73bb294.jpg

 

A '78 Ford short bed is 82" long. That measurement is from the front of the bed to the rear of the bed floor. Which means there is only a 14" difference between it and a long bed. ALL of the length is taken from the front. A Ford bed is not shortened in the same manner as a Chevrolet.