68 replies to this topic

[sjordan2]

I thought Harry explained it pretty clearly.

 

Why should moderators have to put up with the guaranteed whining that would come from a sale gone bad that was openly negotiated on this forum?

 

If you've got something to sell, there's eBay.

If you're willing to pay for something you need, solicit a PM through the Wanted section and keep it between you and the seller. Or simply Google for it.

 

According to Harry's original post, you can also put a link here to your business or to your listing on eBay, but no "selling" details are allowed. For example...
"I have a number of kits on eBay right now [list and add links]. I think that's  bit over the edge and could cause a lot of garbage postings, but evidently it's okay.

 

Anyway, I think Harry's original post here covers most of the bases.

[Terry Sumner]

Well, speaking as a moderator on THE largest modeling forum in the world....I have to tell you that the "Classifieds" section of the Aircraft Resource Center forum does not double our duties. Quite the contrary, it doesn't impact our duties as moderators at all. It's well known that when you buy or sell in the classifieds you are on your own. We moderators have nothing to do with it.

That could easily be done here. Just make it known that any trades or sales in there are on your own and the MCM forum will take no sides in any matter transacted there. It really is that easy. I know because we do it and have done it for the last 15 years.

But in the final analysis, this forum belongs to Gregg and he makes the rules. And if he says no marketplace...then there's no marketplace. I've accepted that up till now and I will continue to accept that!

[LDO]

Spam campaign announcing an upcoming book=OK, as long as no price is mentioned.

[Harry P.]

Well, speaking as a moderator on THE largest modeling forum in the world....I have to tell you that the "Classifieds" section of the Aircraft Resource Center forum does not double our duties. Quite the contrary, it doesn't impact our duties as moderators at all. It's well known that when you buy or sell in the classifieds you are on your own. We moderators have nothing to do with it.

 

Maybe you have a different sort of member over there. Even though trading is inherently risky and there are no guarantees, plenty of members still PM me and expect me to do something about a trade when they feel like they're getting screwed over. Of course, I can't do anything, but the PMs keep coming.

 

So if people expect the moderators here to police their trades, it would be a safe assumption that they would expect the moderators to police their buying and selling, too... which I want no part of.

[Gluhead]

Thank you, Terry, for that post. So far, the only valid reason listed in this thread for not having one here is Tom's comment about the possibility of loss of advertising revenue for the magazine. I guess what I find distasteful is the perpetual "we can't do that! we're not a store!" excuse, when it's really just a matter of personal preference. Just say "we don't know how to do it without drowning ourselves in it so we won't even try" and let that be that. Anything else is an insult to our intelligence. Maybe that flies fine with some...

 

But I digress. Plastic, here I come.

[matthijsgrit]

If we use a forum others created for us, why not just follow their "rules"?

Wouldn't that be what we would want ourselves if we facilitated someone else?

As stated before, there are enough ways this forum offers to get a deal, just not in plain sight.
Let's just accept that...

[azers]

There was a little article in f.s.m. about this exact thing. They don't allow buying or selling on their forum for exactly the same reasons. I think it was in their letter section.

[Deano]

Thank you, Terry, for that post. So far, the only valid reason listed in this thread for not having one here is Tom's comment about the possibility of loss of advertising revenue for the magazine. I guess what I find distasteful is the perpetual "we can't do that! we're not a store!" excuse, when it's really just a matter of personal preference. Just say "we don't know how to do it without drowning ourselves in it so we won't even try" and let that be that. Anything else is an insult to our intelligence. Maybe that flies fine with some...

 

But I digress. Plastic, here I come.

Actually, there's another over-riding valid reason:  Gregg's Forum, Gregg's Rules.  That pretty much sums it up.

[Casey]

I think you know where to find a forum that will accommodate your needs... All you need to do is ask

 

Anthony's signature line is a good example of adding a link to your forum, website, photo album, blog page, etc., so nobody needs to ask, "How do I order a set of Arvin Asp muffler from Joe's Resin?". They can click on the link in your signature line, which will take them directly to your website.

[Jeff Johnston]

 

plenty of members still PM me and expect me to do something about a trade when they feel like they're getting screwed over. Of course, I can't do anything, but the PMs keep coming.

 

 

 man..seriously ?  That's nuts.  People actually PM you with trade deals gone bad ?   (shaking my head). 

 

Ok well if that happens I totally get the no selliing rule because you'd never dig out of the PMs.

Edited by Jeff Johnston, 12 February 2013 - 01:49 PM.

[sjordan2]

How about: "We do not have a bottomless pit of financial resources."

???

 

Adding a complete section like that -- with the kind of categories you find in newspapers (which are paid for) -- is not a simple task. And without categories, it would be just as crazy and disorganized as this site's Wanted section.

[Psychographic]

Actually I think it's a good thing to let a mod know a deal has gone sour. This should only be done once with the knowledge that you are only notifying them of the problem, nothing should be expected of the moderator. This way the people who run and control this site would know if they have a bad egg on the site.

 

What I can't understand, what's the difference between a trade or a sale? Both transactions can go bad.

[Casey]

Actually I think it's a good thing to let a mod know a deal has gone sour. This should only be done once with the knowledge that you are only notifying them of the problem, nothing should be expected of the moderator. This way the people who run and control this site would know if they have a bad egg on the site.

 

What I can't understand, what's the difference between a trade or a sale? Both transactions can go bad.

 

The problem is Moderators can't do anything about a "bad" trader. We aren't going to investigate every bad trade, double check and verify all tracking information, and we have no way of knowing exactly what was greed upon by the traders.

 

Yes, people PM me with concerns about trades gone awry, taking a long time, or when they've been flat out ripped off. I feel bad for anyone who has been on the bad end of a trade (it's happened to me three times), but it's going to happen, and everyone has to decide if any and all trades are worth the risk to them. I even added a pinned Trading Guidelines post to the Trade/Wanted sections to make it perfectly clear that trading is a risk, so there's not much more I can add.

 

My personal preference would be for each member who keep a list in the "Good Traders" post to add a "PM me before you consider trading with __________ ___________ " to their list. It gets the point across, or at least should.

 

The way I look at it, the Trade/Wanted sections here are a bonus for all of us. I'm glad we have them and hope we always do, but if it ever gets to a point where those sections are being abused (like the chat room was   ), I would understand if they were no longer part of the forum. There are plenty of places (and one GIANT place, eBay) to sell and buy to your heart's content on the internet, and the MCM Forum just happens to not be one of those places.

[martinfan5]

 

 There are plenty of places (and one GIANT place, eBay) to sell and buy to your heart's content on the internet, and the MCM Forum just happens to not be one of those places.

I dont understand why people make a big deal about not being able to sell on here, its pretty simple really,  its how Greg wants it to be, and that should be enough.

[Johnny]

Oh nooooooo!

 

Did the powers that be actually just post for all the whole world to see that ripoff artists can come here and rip off members without fear of repercussion???

[mikemodeler]

I see both sides of the issue and while I would like to see a section where one could sell models, in the end it is Gregg's forum and his rules.

 

I am sure he thought long and hard before he made his rules and we have to accept them, like it or not!

 

While I have seen some borderline abuse of advertising/selling rules, for the most part the moderators tend to "nip it in the bud".

[highway]

 

 

Example B: What if Resin Caster Joe posted this instead: "I have a wide selection of cool resin parts. Check them out at www.resincasterjoe.com"

 

Is that also considered selling? In my opinion, that would be allowed, because the actual sales information is not listed, but only a link to where the product can be bought. In my opinion a link to a product is allowed. I'd like Gregg and Casey to add their thoughts.

 

 

Hmmmmm, what brought the change of heart on that Harry, because I remember an instance about a year or so back that makes this statement one of those "the pot calling the kettle black" type of statements.

 

In case you probably don't remember to what I'm referring to, there was a thread in the truck section that was posted by a resin caster popular in the truck section that was posting pics of his new products. We active in the truck section all know how to contact this resin caster, and it was just pics of his new offerings on his website, nothing more. I seem to remember you telling him no selling was allowed and soon the threads went "POOF" to the land of deleted threads. There were no prices, just pics, and still..........

 

Oh, and did I mention that resin caster also is an advertiser in the magazine itself??

[highway]

Promoting ones own goods and/or services is called "sales"

Someone else promoting your goods and services is called a referral (excluding salesmen)

 

 

B: Sales.  Just because price isn't mentioned doesn't meant  "check out these cool parts on my web site, they     are free or I will trade for incomplete '90's Nascar kits.

 

 

Many ads have no prices listed. 

 

 

I don't see how that is "sales", but I guess I just see things differently.

[jbwelda]

> This way the people who run and control this site would know if they have a bad egg on the site.

 

yeah a bad egg. problem is, which one is the bad egg? you cant just take someones word that they are jesus and the other person satan. more often than not there is a problem on both ends. and moderators cant be expected to dig through everything to figure out who is at fault, even if they wanted to. not that i think that should lead to no selling, i just think that when problems arise its incumbent on the involved parties to either figure it out or eat the loss themselves, dont start p*ssing contests on the forums or even worse try to get an "authority" figure involved. but thats not the way of the world, so many people need "mom" around to help them when things dont go their way even though thats largely a problem only between the two parties...so we end up with more "zero tolerance" rules and everyone suffers. way to go whiners.

[Von Don Koolkat]

A "no sales" policy makes sense to me. I had to make the same policy on my Facebook forum. Facebook has plenty of buy,sell, trade pages devoted to just that. It frequently results in excessive drama due to poor behavior by one person or another.