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Where to find: 1935-36 ord wheels and tires.


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#1 Kyle Krueger

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 03:39 PM

I'm building a model off of my 1:1, and it has spoke wheels on it and I'd like to find them, anyone have an idea on where to find them?
Thanks in advance,
Kyle

Edited by Kyle Krueger, 24 February 2013 - 04:41 PM.


#2 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 04:22 PM

There's no picture, but I've got a set of the stock OEM wide-five style steel wheels, tires, and caps from the AMT '36 Ford kits.

 

 

 

 With stock hubcaps... 36Ford_5.jpg

 

36fordfrontleft.jpg


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 24 February 2013 - 04:24 PM.


#3 Art Anderson

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:31 PM

A far more accurate set of Ford '36-'39 "wide five" wheels can be found in the Revell '37 Ford pickup--same wheel and tire as the passenger car.  I say more accurate, as AMT's '36 Ford wheel lost it's :"artillery" spoke pattern way back in the early 1960's, but Revell's has them, and much better done in the bargain.  Also, the Revell wheel and tire are a true-to-scale 6:00-16, where AMT did their's as 6:50-15's.

 

Art



#4 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:00 AM

In response to Art's post above, the '37 Ford truck wheels he mentioned omit the wide-five bolt pattern entirely (which is a major signature of these wheels) and are molded with the outer part of the center-cap in place. Not exactly "much better done" in my definition, but they look alright otherwise.

 

The AMT kit wheels probably represent the heavy-duty wheels for the same vehicles.

 

Have you ever seen these? NO waffle-edge on the pressed-steel center (which is incorrectly referred to as 'artillery' quite often).
Not many folks seem to know that Ford built reinforced 15 x 6 inch wide-five wheels for heavy duty applications besides the normal 16 inch and optional truck 18 inch wheels.
Much used in dirt track racing during the '40s and '50s.
 

 

IMG_8245.JPGIMG_8243.JPG


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 26 February 2013 - 07:23 AM.


#5 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:07 AM

Speaking of "artillery wheels", here's the right definitoin from wiki-p:

 

"The artillery wheel was developed for use on gun carriages when it was found that the lateral forces involved in horse artillery manoeuvres caused normally-constructed cart wheels to collapse. Rather than having its spokes mortised into a wooden nave (hub), it has them fitted together (mitred) then bolted into a metal nave. Its tyre is shrunk onto the rim in the usual way but it is also bolted on for security. A normal wagon wheel is dished so that in its lowest part, the spokes are perpendicular to the ground thus supporting the weight (with the axle not truly horizontal but angled downward toward the outside about 5 degrees). This is not done with artillery wheels.

 

When higher speeds and consequently higher lateral forces were attained with the introduction of motor vehicles, the artillery wheel was used in those too. By the 1920s, motor cars used wheels which looked at a glance like artillery wheels but which were of forged steel or welded from steel pressed sections. These too were usually called artillery wheels. By the 1930s they were obsolete having been replaced by wheels pressed from heavy-gauge steel sheet or in sports cars and lightweight cars, by wire spokes."

 

A true artillery wheel:250px-Artillery-spoked_wheel.jpgPressed-steel wheel from a '36 Ford: ford36-39.jpg

 

The wheels to the right are the stock (or OEM) most common wheels on the wide-five cars, 1936-1939. They are NOT spoke-wheels either.

 

And these are the wheels / tires Art refers to from the Revell '37 truck kits, showing the molded-in outer center cap. The inner chrome caps can be changed, though they are a permanantly-attached part of the hubcap assembly on the real vehicle.

 

01-850.jpg

:


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 26 February 2013 - 03:15 PM.


#6 Casey

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:01 AM

Were the center caps on the real wheels two-piece?



#7 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:30 AM

Were the center caps on the real wheels two-piece?

Though I have not seen an OEM set of these for quite a while, I seem to recall that one version of the cap is a one-piece stainless stamping, with the outer part painted.

 

1936%20-%201937%20Ford%20Hubcap%202.JPG

 

There is another version, and most of the aftermarket ones, which are two-piece, with a stainless center held to a primered / painted outer rim with bend-tabs.

 

1936%20FORD%20HUBCAP.jpg....but they are all essentially one-piece, and do not have separate centers like the Revell '37 Ford trucks. IIRC.

 

When I say they are essentially one-piece, I mean that they are assembled before being attached to the wheel, while the Revell version would have the stainless part assembled to the wheel by itself. Not correct. And there are at least two versions of the cap (depending on year), and also a Ford-offered optional cap with a scalloped edge.  IMG_2702fordcapsbest.jpg?t=1313801751


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 26 February 2013 - 03:18 PM.


#8 Art Anderson

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:34 PM

36 to 39 Ford hubcaps at least started out as 2-piece affairs, made in polished stainless steel, not chrome plated.  They were "spray-masked" at the factory to give the color and polished stainless look.

 

Art



#9 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:18 PM

36 to 39 Ford hubcaps at least started out as 2-piece affairs, made in polished stainless steel, not chrome plated.  They were "spray-masked" at the factory to give the color and polished stainless look.

 

Art

Yes, but even the "2-piece affairs" are assembled into a one-piece hubcap before being snapped on to the wheel proper.



#10 Kyle Krueger

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:36 PM

The ones in looking for are 16 x 5 inch spoke rims. 1935 with a large v8 hub cap.
http://farm6.staticf...44cab7e3e_z.jpg

Edited by Kyle Krueger, 26 February 2013 - 04:38 PM.


#11 wrecker388

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:46 PM

The ones in looking for are 16 x 5 inch spoke rims. 1935 with a large v8 hub cap.
http://farm6.staticf...44cab7e3e_z.jpg

Lindberg's 34 Ford pickup may be a start.



#12 Kyle Krueger

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:49 PM

I happen to have that kit, I'll look at them. But I don't think the width is accurate

#13 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:49 PM

I happen to have that kit, I'll look at them. But I don't think the width is accurate

 

The hubcaps on the Lindberg truck are much smaller than what you want.

 

But this kit (below) has 16" X 6.5", 32-spoke wire wheels with chrome V8 hubcaps. Measured correctly, the diameter is very slightly undersize, and they are easy to narrow. I've got a spare set.

 

AMT%2031758%2032FordPh.JPG

 

I just measured the stock wire wheels in this kit (below), and the diameter is right, though the center cap detail is soft. I also have a set of these I'll never use. The wheel centers where the outer spokes attach isn't really right on these AMT wheels, but it's probably as good as you'll get.

 

$%28KGrHqJ,%21nwFBYWgVH3wBQYvcghWzg~~60_

 

The AMT '34 Fords (5-window and sedan, NOT the much earlier 3-window) have better centers, but they're 17 or 18" wheels.


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 26 February 2013 - 06:19 PM.


#14 Kyle Krueger

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 02:50 AM

 
The hubcaps on the Lindberg truck are much smaller than what you want.
 
But this kit (below) has 16" X 6.5", 32-spoke wire wheels with chrome V8 hubcaps. Measured correctly, the diameter is very slightly undersize, and they are easy to narrow. I've got a spare set.
 
AMT%2031758%2032FordPh.JPG
 
I just measured the stock wire wheels in this kit (below), and the diameter is right, though the center cap detail is soft. I also have a set of these I'll never use. The wheel centers where the outer spokes attach isn't really right on these AMT wheels, but it's probably as good as you'll get.
 
$%28KGrHqJ,%21nwFBYWgVH3wBQYvcghWzg~~60_
 
The AMT '34 Fords (5-window and sedan, NOT the much earlier 3-window) have better centers, but they're 17 or 18" wheels.


Those would be the wheels I'm looking for. The ones in the first kit. I'll pm you.

#15 Art Anderson

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:18 AM

Those would be the wheels I'm looking for. The ones in the first kit. I'll pm you.

Kyle, every AMT, Lesney-AMT and AMT/Ertl, even Round2 AMT '32 Ford was kitted with 15" tires.  Bear in mind, the tire diameter is measured at the inside of the tire bead, not the OD of the flanges on the sides of the rim.

 

Those kit wheels are closer to the wheels on a '35 Ford than a '32, as the Deuce left the factory on 18" rims (for those wanting exact scale wheels and tires for a 1/25 scale stock Deuce, Replicas and Miniatures of Maryland makes them, and they are as perfect as perfect gets--oh, and Norman includes tires with them too.

 

Art



#16 rmvw guy

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 04:33 AM

Though I have not seen an OEM set of these for quite a while, I seem to recall that one version of the cap is a one-piece stainless stamping, with the outer part painted.

 

1936%20-%201937%20Ford%20Hubcap%202.JPG

 

There is another version, and most of the aftermarket ones, which are two-piece, with a stainless center held to a primered / painted outer rim with bend-tabs.

 

1936%20FORD%20HUBCAP.jpg....but they are all essentially one-piece, and do not have separate centers like the Revell '37 Ford trucks. IIRC.

 

When I say they are essentially one-piece, I mean that they are assembled before being attached to the wheel, while the Revell version would have the stainless part assembled to the wheel by itself. Not correct. And there are at least two versions of the cap (depending on year), and also a Ford-offered optional cap with a scalloped edge.  IMG_2702fordcapsbest.jpg?t=1313801751

These stainless hubcaps must be extremely rare, I searched swap meets for years just hoping to find one, I had three good ones on my '37 Ford and one not so good.  Finally I purchased four matching like the ones with the black. The black part was steel and would rust over time.



#17 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 05:24 AM

Kyle, every AMT, Lesney-AMT and AMT/Ertl, even Round2 AMT '32 Ford was kitted with 15" tires.  Bear in mind, the tire diameter is measured at the inside of the tire bead, not the OD of the flanges on the sides of the rim.

 

Those kit wheels are closer to the wheels on a '35 Ford than a '32, as the Deuce left the factory on 18" rims (for those wanting exact scale wheels and tires for a 1/25 scale stock Deuce, Replicas and Miniatures of Maryland makes them, and they are as perfect as perfect gets--oh, and Norman includes tires with them too.

 

Art

 

I don't mean to be unpleasant or argumentative, but for what it's worth, I MEASURED BEFORE I POSTED (I build REAL cars for a living these days and kinda know how) and the wheels in the yellow box-art kit ARE SLIGHTLY LARGER and measure out to 16", measured on the rim itself, just about 1/2 scale inch inside the outer diameter of the wheel rim, where the actual tire sealing bead would be in 1:1.

 

I know the conventional wisdom seems to be to repeat endlessly that all the AMT '32 kits have 15" wheels, but if you actually measure, there is a difference.

 

A CAREFUL and open-minded comparison of the two kits pictured reveals that the STOCK WIRE WHEEL TOOLING IS DIFFERENT, and that, measured with a digital caliper in the location a real wheel would be measured, and multiplying by 25, the yellow box-art car HAS 16" WHEELS.

 

The flanges on the wheels ARE MUCH TOO DEEP to be scale-correct, so again, taking into consideration what SHOULD be the scale-correct depth of the rim flanges, the wheels measure damm close to 16", correcting for the incorrect tooling.

 

In addition, the measurement across the full OD of the yellow roadster kit wheels is a scale 17.125", or just about right for a 16" wheel, depending on actual design of the 1:1 of course.


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 27 February 2013 - 06:00 AM.


#18 southpier

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:15 AM

general question: is this why i find some wheels sit proud of the tires? i'm trying to jamb wheels that are oversized into too small rubber?



#19 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:30 AM

general question: is this why i find some wheels sit proud of the tires? i'm trying to jamb wheels that are oversized into too small rubber?

On some kit wheels, particularly the old AMT wheels, I've often had to remove rubber from the inside diameter of the tires, and in some cases to thin the back-side of the rim where it touches the tire, in order to get the wheels to fit closer to flush and look prototypically correct.

 

The rear wheels and tires on this model have been modified to get what I think is the right look, while the front wheel rim is still proud of the tire, and sticks out much more than is scale-correct.

 

DSCN6190.jpg


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 27 February 2013 - 08:45 AM.


#20 southpier

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:11 PM

exactly. back good; front not as nice. i particularly notice this with '34 Ford style wire wheels.

 

often i don't keep kit tires & wheels together, and when it's time to mount them, it's a bit of a chore to find a good match. i assumed it was just me, but some of the "under glass" models suffer the same malady.

 

 

perhaps i could use my dremel moto-lathe to thin down the wheel rim?