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Why aren't all model kits awesome?


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#81 Chuck Kourouklis

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:35 AM

Got no reason to doubt ya, Johnny, though I gotta say armor's still getting good stuff too.

 

Warning: possibly off-topic continuation...

 

HK Models, Bill.  Here's a taste:

 

179597_418197921605122_16181592_n.jpg

 

Off-topic for car models, definitely ON-topic for "awesome".   B)


Edited by Chuck Kourouklis, 07 March 2013 - 10:36 AM.


#82 Guest_Johnny_*

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:57 AM

Now that is awesome detail! B)



#83 Greg Myers

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:10 AM

BIG BIRD

 


Edited by Harry P., 07 March 2013 - 11:28 AM.


#84 Brett Barrow

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:05 PM

 

I think you and I are making flip sides of the same point, though I gotta say, if the AFV guys are dyin' out, it ain't quick enough yet to stop manufacturers from sinking cubic dollars into new military tooling.  We got a 1/32 B-17 with forty inches of wing on the horizon, which would indicate that the 1/32 B-25 that preceded it found a sufficient audience - to say nothing of manufacturers like Tamiya being rather more ambitious lately with all-new military tooling than it is with autos, or the scads of smaller Cyber-Hobby, AFV-Club, Zveda, ICM, Eduard and Meng- type manufacturers that treat street cars on a very limited basis if they bother with them at all.  

 

On the other hand, Revell's latest Facebook posting has a general observation that "New technology, however, may soon make pattern models a thing of the past" and a staff comment specifically on digital scanning.  And I hold that if Revell adapts its process to 3D scans of the prototype, that step alone will raise them to a much more consistent level of "awesomeness" even if they don't change a single other aspect of their current design m.o.

No, I didn't really mean it like that, like military modelers are dying off, but that the "older, more discerning enthusiast" element is shifting the military genres towards the uber-kits. New tooling drives military and aircraft modeling, since you're pretty much selling to the same crowd, you have to give them something new.  Reissues don't work on them the way they work on car modelers.  Although, I gotta say, the recent Renwal resurrections by Revell, especially the Atomic Cannon, are selling like hotcakes, and more to the nostalgic crowd, not as much to the serious military guys.  But the Atomic Cannon was pretty much an uber-kit in its day.   

 

And IMHO, the HK 1/32 B-17 would have been much more awesome had it been 1/48.  We need a new-tool 1/48 B-17.  At 1/32 it's just a little too much awesomeness for most folks to afford, or to even have the display space for.  I've seen plenty of folks pass on the newer Revell 1/32 German twins just simply because they lack the space for them, and they're dirt cheap kits compared to most current 1/32 stuff.   

 

I'm just happy we're finally getting an accurate (I hope!) 1/48 Spit IX from Eduard.  That's as awesome as anything outside of the car world to me. :)



#85 Chuck Kourouklis

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:12 PM

HO!  Hadn't heard about the Eduard Nine!

 

As for the rest, ah, okay, I getcha now.



#86 Rob Hall

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:14 PM

Speaking of military kits, at my LHS a few months ago I got see a new tool aircraft carrier or battleship in the box...this thing was massive, maybe the biggest kit I've ever seen--the box was about 4 feet long...the trees had a vast number of parts....would need a lot of space to build it.   IIRC, it was something by Trumpeter.



#87 Harry P.

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:28 PM

I recently bought the new Trumpeter 1/32 Junkers "Stuka" WWII dive bomber. All I can say is, wow, the military guys really have it good. What incredible detail... crisp engraving, no flash, parts fit like a glove, PE parts, and on and on. I almost never built military models (aside from my 1/32 WWI fighters), but if that Stuka is indicative of the quality of armor and military kits in general, all I can say is that model car builders are being served up a lot of sub-par stuff. A lot.



#88 martinfan5

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:34 PM

Speaking of military kits, at my LHS a few months ago I got see a new tool aircraft carrier or battleship in the box...this thing was massive, maybe the biggest kit I've ever seen--the box was about 4 feet long...the trees had a vast number of parts....would need a lot of space to build it.   IIRC, it was something by Trumpeter.

Did the price tag match the size of the box? :lol:



#89 Greg Myers

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:38 PM

I'd bet a bunch of us got started with airplanes. ( I say "airplanes" in the vernacular of a young builder) I did, and reading Harry's post I gotta wonder if that's the way to go ?

 

Kitty-Hawk-Models-F-94C-Starfire-Fighter


Edited by Greg Myers, 07 March 2013 - 01:38 PM.


#90 Chuck Kourouklis

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:58 PM

I recently bought the new Trumpeter 1/32 Junkers "Stuka" WWII dive bomber. All I can say is, wow, the military guys really have it good. What incredible detail... crisp engraving, no flash, parts fit like a glove, PE parts, and on and on. I almost never built military models (aside from my 1/32 WWI fighters), but if that Stuka is indicative of the quality of armor and military kits in general, all I can say is that model car builders are being served up a lot of sub-par stuff. A lot.

 

It's very difficult to put one genre up against the other and not come to that conclusion, and I'm not just talking the high-zoot big scale stuff either.  1/48 Eduard models, like the one Brett mentioned?  The basic "Weekend Edition" kits approach the rough size and price of a US 1/25 auto kit - and the cars don't generally weather that context well.



#91 Rob Hall

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:49 PM

Did the price tag match the size of the box? :lol:

I think it was the Trumpeter 1/200th Bismarck.  Tower Hobbies lists it for $284, and it's over 49 inches in length.



#92 martinfan5

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 06:08 PM

I think it was the Trumpeter 1/200th Bismarck.  Tower Hobbies lists it for $284, and it's over 49 inches in length.

Ok math genius on here, can we a dollar to inch ratio please :lol:

 

I am going to check it out it now



#93 Chuck Kourouklis

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:25 PM

Funny, right about what the 1/32 17 is supposed to cost.



#94 MAGNUM4342

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 08:37 PM

I don't think they should all be awesome. Think about this for a moment- If all kits were awesome and perfect scale reproductions, where would your skill set be? There would be minimal room for improvement beyond cleanup, painting and assembly. Then, once those three skills are mastered you'll find that the kits become boring. Traditionally as a species, the more we improve things the worse our state of minds become. we got computers...which of course spawned computer shorthand...IIRC. Then cell phones gained the ability to text...this spawned the ever more popular texting shorthand. Now ask yourself, how well are our children doing in school these days with oh, say, reading and WRITING.

Not very well are they? No, because text speak LOL is too easy and longhand cursive is quickly becoming a thing of the past. The smarter our phones get the dumber we get. If all kits were perfect, none of us would know anything about bodywork, chassis stretching or the mechanics of engine swapping. Well, some of us might, but my point is if it was easy, it would no longer be fun. ;) 


Edited by MAGNUM4342, 07 March 2013 - 08:38 PM.


#95 Hayabusa

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:22 PM

The kit that Rob Hall mentions is the german battleship "Bismarck" in 1:200 scale, by Trumpeter. The model is huge! A swedish modeler completed it just recently:

http://www.ipmsstock...marck&start=110

 

I like building model cars, but I also build AFV´s. Clearly, there´s a difference between the 2 genres - what the producers of AFV kits have to offer is quite amazing, I think. The world of 1:35 scale AFV kits was ruled by Tamiya for many years (they started it), but today there´s a vast array of producers bringing high quality kits to the market. Each year, there´s many "new tool" kits released and the level of detail and mold quality is very high for most of the time. If you build AFV models - life has never been better  ^_^ However, a bit hard on your wallet...these kits are not inexpensive, but you do get what you pay for.

 

If you like WWI airplanes, check out Wingnut Wings. I mean - wow! The kits they produce are impressive.

 

Like I said, the world of model cars look a bit different but I still enjoy building model cars.



#96 Chuck Kourouklis

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:32 PM

Exactly as you state it, Kevin, your premise is plenty reasonable.  But with only a subtle tweak - it's a builder's responsibility to correct a manufacturer oversight, and the builder is somehow deficient if he points out the manufacturer's error - we're right back at that blog section I linked to earlier.

 

I bent the focus a bit to proportioning problems, but if you check the original poster's comment, he also talks about detail.  And high levels of detail rarely lead to easy kits.

 

I'd also go so far as to say that a properly proportioned kit still leaves plenty of a canvas for bodywork, be it conversion to a different style or trim level, or especially to a custom.  Elective craftsmanship is a very different proposition from corrective craftsmanship - to most, the former is far more stimulating and less annoying than the latter.



#97 Harry P.

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 04:19 AM

Elective craftsmanship is a very different proposition from corrective craftsmanship...

 

I like that line. Very true. A well-designed, well-detailed and correct model kit in no way tamps down the creative process. You're still free to customize, kitbash and parts-swap to your heart's content... but you don't have to first correct all the errors that should never have made it to production!

 

It's like buying a car... you expect a brand new car to work correctly... not needing a trip to the mechanic to first fix all the manufacturer's defects before you can start driving it! Can your mechanic (or you) fix the car? Sure... but the point is, you shouldn't have to. Those problems should not have been present in a brand new car to begin with.

 

Same deal with model kits.



#98 Erik Smith

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 04:36 AM

I recently bought the new Trumpeter 1/32 Junkers "Stuka" WWII dive bomber. All I can say is, wow, the military guys really have it good. What incredible detail... crisp engraving, no flash, parts fit like a glove, PE parts, and on and on. I almost never built military models (aside from my 1/32 WWI fighters), but if that Stuka is indicative of the quality of armor and military kits in general, all I can say is that model car builders are being served up a lot of sub-par stuff. A lot.


I have this from Trumpeter:

77F1BBD9-3189-4205-A5A6-F47EB2243B42-284

1/35 scale, it has a couple hundred parts including a PE fret. I think I payed $28. I will post pics later to show how detailed and beautifully molded a kit can be...

#99 Brett Barrow

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 05:32 AM

I recently bought the new Trumpeter 1/32 Junkers "Stuka" WWII dive bomber. All I can say is, wow, the military guys really have it good. What incredible detail... crisp engraving, no flash, parts fit like a glove, PE parts, and on and on. I almost never built military models (aside from my 1/32 WWI fighters), but if that Stuka is indicative of the quality of armor and military kits in general, all I can say is that model car builders are being served up a lot of sub-par stuff. A lot.

Funny you bring that particular kit up, as the rivet coun....   er... um... the "mechanical fastener enumerators" over on the Large Scale Planes forum (and other aircraft forums, but LSP especially) pretty much tore that kit to shreds over inaccuracies when it was released. Read at your own peril, remember - ignorance is bliss... And also know that the only surviving B-model Stuka which hangs from the ceiling at the Chicago Museum of Sceince and Industry not only took a nose-dive when it crash landed during WWII, but also took another nose dive when it fell from the ceiling back in the 70's.  So there's no surviving WWII perfectly intact Stuka B nose for anybody to measure or scan or whatever, so I cut them a little slack in the nose department. 

 

 http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=41786&hl= trumpeter stuka

 

http://forum.largesc...rumpeter +stuka

 

http://forum.largesc...rumpeter +stuka

 

http://forum.largesc...rumpeter +stuka

 

http://aeroscale.kit...content&id=8054

 

It might look like I posted the same link 3 or 4 times, but they're different threads. 


Edited by Brett Barrow, 08 March 2013 - 05:46 AM.


#100 Casey

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 05:54 AM

This F-B Chrysler Imperial kit should give you a good idea of how "awesome" kits were in the 1950s.  ^_^

 

Nice box, contents well protected. There shouldn't be any breakage or warpage with this one!  :) :

 

chryslerImperial1.jpg

 

 

Oh yeah, nice illustrated instruction sheet. I'm gonna love building this kit!  :)  :) :

 

chryslerimperial2.jpg

 

 

Open it up a bit further and-  :wacko:  :o

 

chryslerimperial4.jpg

 

 

-_-