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1:8 scratch deuce


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#21 comp1839

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:33 AM

 first, are you sure you want to tackle tig welding aluminum on that frame, on your first attempt at this?  don't get me wrong.....i believe in the can do spirit and all of that sort of thing but, "tig"ing aluminum is NOTHING like welding steel. especially thin sheet aluminum. even if you are successful at welding it. you will need to work it back to being straight again.  are you sure you really want to tig this frame?

 

  even a cheap tig that can do A/C welding is not going to be "cheap". the really cheap tigs out there only do d/c. that's why they are cheap. i also don't recommend it be a scratch type tig. you'll need a foot pedal control, not a preset or finger tip control.  the mini torch head you want will be an added cost too. then there's the tungsten electrodes, filler rod, gas and personal protective gear. i don't know what you're willing to spend on this so, i thought i'd let you know this ain't gonna be cheap or fast. the learning curve for welding aluminum is pretty slow. i've known guys who have welded all their lives who haven't mastered the skill of "tig"ing aluminum.   if you're sure about the cost thing and the dedication.  i'll be happy to walk you through it.

 

please, don't think i'm giving you a hassle or hard time on this. if you truly want to do this, i don't mind helping. i just don't want you to get all gung-ho and rush into this un-informed only to find out how much it REALLY takes to tig weld aluminum. on the other hand. the satifaction level is OFF THE CHARTS!!!



#22 Ognib

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:31 AM

Dave, I appreciate your straight-forwardness in this.

 

As I stated in an earlier post, I have no answers in the aluminum thing & am at this point, gathering information & "thinking out loud".

My main attraction to it as a modeling material has been it's easy availability...plus I think it's a beautiful material to built into cool things.

Hence my strong attraction to the mill work you do on your builds + the fact I understand the dedication you have invested in your skills to produce such striking results in your work.

 

One thing for sure, I've been planning, studying (lurking on model forums & seeking out scratch builders to study), reading & thinking about this build for quite some time.

 

Couple of years before I retired from doing cars after 30 + yrs, I was in my mid 50's & had already decided I wanted to do guitars.

That was 15 yrs ago & after being in the shop every day & thousands of hours of study & practice, I've pretty much mastered it.

And it has been a worthy challenge to learn how to build a good playable neck that good players want to play on.

 

Seems like though, every few decades or so, I need a new worthy challenge.

I've set my mind to learn how do this at a high level...I aspire to produce results with the same striking realistic detail as yourself & several other builders who's work I study.

 

The deuce is gonna get built, even if it takes another 15 yrs + another thousand hours of study & practice.

That's just the kinda guy I am once I get hooked in on something like this...I just can't resist the challenge.

 

So I just gotta decide what I'm going to build with & how I'm going to stick it all together & unfortunately cost does enter in to my end decision.

Heck, I may end up building it with steel, just for the unique factor...I do already have some experience with it.

 

And...thank you so much for your generous offer to share your knowledge & insights in this.

 

Best to you.


Edited by Ognib, 26 April 2013 - 02:28 PM.


#23 Ognib

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 03:24 AM

Found this

 

http://eastwood.com/...-dc-welder.html

 

ac/dc, footpedal, high frequency start, square wave inverter.

Best price I've found with all the desired features.

Good user reviews on value & quality for price.


Edited by Ognib, 29 April 2013 - 01:47 AM.


#24 Ognib

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 04:21 AM

This car is my main inspiration for this build.

Set it up right & drive it hard.

 

 

 

If I could afford to build a 1:1 this would be it.

 

Hum, the link isn't working...try to figgur out what's wrong.

Really would like for you guys to see this.

 

 

Got it!  B)


Edited by Ognib, 29 April 2013 - 07:27 AM.


#25 Ognib

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 07:21 AM

Also really like this car. although it's not a 32.

Had a hard time deciding between a 32 or a 33/34.

Especially dig the wire wheels.


Edited by Ognib, 30 April 2013 - 01:05 AM.


#26 Ognib

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 07:25 AM

This one has a real strong vibe about it that I like as well.



#27 RAT-T

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 01:06 PM

Found this

 

http://eastwood.com/...-dc-welder.html

 

ac/dc, footpedal, high frequency start, square wave inverter.

Best price I've found with all the desired features.

Good user reviews on value & quality for price.

 

HI RAY,

EASTWOOD DOES SELL SOME GOOD PRODUCTS, BUT I WOULD RECOMMEND YOU DEAL WITH A LOCAL WELDING SUPPLY STORE,



#28 Ognib

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 11:34 PM

Hi Tom,

 

I agree.

I prefer to do my business locally & buy a brand of equipment where parts & service are readily available, but since this is a hobby I really have to consider the best price/value available & check out all the options.

I'm also trolling CL etc in hopes of finding a good used unit at a reduced cost.

This is probably where the best bang for the buck will come from.

Just have to be patient till the deal I'm looking for comes along.

 

In the meantime, I'm looking for a 1:8 32 3 window to use for pulling templates for the body buck, so I can get started on that as well.


Edited by Ognib, 29 April 2013 - 11:59 PM.


#29 Ognib

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 11:42 PM

Check this out.

 



#30 vintagedragfan

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 01:25 AM

yea, Wingrove was definitely an inspiration for me to say the least!! 



#31 Ognib

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 02:28 AM

Especially in the part where it shows the body/fender bucks, how he does his tucks for gathering/shrinking, the annealing process to keep his material workable...good stuff!



#32 Ognib

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:31 AM

A ride in an old school hot rod roadster.

Note his cutting donuts in the parking lot, about half way through the vid.

Set em up right & drive em hard.

 

 



#33 Ognib

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 02:07 AM

Heres a thread on the hobby shop building of a 1:1 deuce frame.

He's doing it by shaping & jigging up the sides & welding the top & bottom edges in place, as I'm doing on my 1:8.

His full frame jig though simple, seems to have done a good job of holding everything accurately in place during the welding process.

Beautiful piece of work, when completed...check it out.

 

The concept for my 1:8 project calls for a traditional flathead engine, so I won't be boxing the rails as he did, in keeping with the vintage vibe I want for it.

 

http://www.jalopyjou...a35fed&t=671187


Edited by Ognib, 01 May 2013 - 11:22 AM.


#34 sjordan2

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 06:06 AM

3 and 5 window coupe bodies here...

 

http://www.edeuce.com/products.html

 

I think you could find some built examples at scalemotorcars.com

 

http://www.scalemoto...-big-deuce.html


Edited by sjordan2, 01 May 2013 - 06:51 AM.


#35 Ognib

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 11:22 AM

Thanks for the links, Skip.

Much appreciated.

Still a lot of stuff out there in the model world that I'm not yet aware of.



#36 dpride

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:33 PM

Ray, the first thing I would suggest is to find somewhere you can test weld some aluminum with someone who has training with tig.

The grade is also important as some (machine grades) are not considered weldable. If you are using scrap, you will have to identify the material.

6061 is a common structural grade and is good to weld. The type of welder that RAT-T suggested has the features you will want.

 

For a novice to attempt tig welding a full chassis as a first project is ambitious. Tig is a totally new ball game compared to stick or mig.

How do I know.............I've been welding for 46 years.

 

I'm not trying to put you off, just see what is involved first. 



#37 Ognib

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:07 PM

Hi David, thanks for your response.

 

The first time I had a need to cut & inlay pearl on a guitar headstock, I practiced on extra materials for close to 3 months before even daring to proceed to the actual project.

Very big on practice until I begin to get the feel & the eye for it, when learning new skills.

 

I have a friend who owns a large metal salvage business & he has mountains of aluminum that I can dig through & buy for scrap prices.

Still not yet sure how to specifically identify the different alloys.

My frame pieces are cut from a piece of angle that I split...looks like it's an extruded product.

When I bent it to fit into the assembly jig, it bent easily...I could feel it yielding to the pressure as I bent it over my thumb & held it's shape very well, with almost no spring-back...quite pliable.

 

If I remember my reading correctly, seems like the -00 designation is almost pure alum & is dead soft??

Was thinking probably that would be the best for forming the body panels & need less annealing as the work progresses??

And, once again if i'm remembering correctly, is good for welding.

 

Any and all advice & recomendations is greatly appreciated as I pick up speed on this project, thanks.


Edited by Ognib, 01 May 2013 - 03:09 PM.


#38 Ognib

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:12 AM

Here's a series of vids I've been studying.

 

 

 



#39 dpride

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:39 PM

If you want to attain the standard with the model  you have reached with the guitars, I would consider using brass................But if you still want to go aluminum...

 

Consider the solders available for aluminum which would be easier than tig... look on youtube for aluminum soldering.

 As to identifying  the different alloys, very difficult!  I always write (marker) or stamp the grade on the offcuts. If you are serious about welding and forming parts for the model, then I would suggest

buying new material for the important parts.....do a lot of testing with the cheap scrap first. :)

For the body, check Gerald Wingrove's models.

 

Got a website for the guitars? I have building and playing for about as long as I have been welding. Of the 9 instruments I have at home, only one is "standard"



#40 Ognib

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 04:25 PM

Here's a link to a big bodied, full hollow jazz box I did.

Close to 400 pics showing neck build, side bending, carving top & back plates, molds & jigs.

Been playing it about 3 yrs now.

http://s127.photobuc...277313854704172

 

 

A knock-off of a vox teardrop that Brian jones played early on with the stones.

It's still in the works.

http://s127.photobuc...740468866754371

 

A PRS that I did for a friend last summer.

Stripped the rosewood board & fabbed a 1/4 sawn maple board with inlaid purpleheart accent line & position markers.

http://s127.photobuc...929041432994939

 

 

 

I really appreciate you being willing to take the time to counsel me on my project!

Tapping the experience of others can go a long way towards shortening a learning curve.

 

I noticed on your twin engine coupe that you did the frame in steel.

What would be your thoughts on using steel vs aluminum on my build.

By everyone's admission, welding steel is vastly easier than alum & I welded steel on a daily basis for over 30 yrs, which would accelerate my progress on this.

 

I don't know...I mean...I really want to approach this from a different tangent/perspective...just to see if I can do it.

Not looking for a guarantee of success in it, just the challenge of doing it & the learning process of new skills is the best part of it all!


Edited by Ognib, 02 May 2013 - 05:04 PM.