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1929 MercedesSSK


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#41 Plastheniker

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:12 AM

                                                                

 

Kenneth, Skip, here comes the screenshot:

I hope you can use it.

 

 

 

Skip, your translation is linguistically perfect but I am afraid you were misled technically.

#851301 "Handluftpumpe" is translated litterally "manual air pump". Nowadays we use an air pump for inflating tires, so you drew this obvious conclusion. 

In those old days you find such an airpump at least on every racing car. It has the purpose of generating an over-pressure in the fuel tank and by this securing the fuel supply of the engine. Since I am not a technician I dont know if this pump has to be operated continously or only when starting the engine. F. e. the Bugatti 35 or the Fiat F-2 (I will show both) have very large pumps on the passenger side. All items on the dashboard marked with " *) " are connected with the pump.

 

 

 

Besides the mentioned Mille Miglia car there is probably a second Mercedes coachwork with conventional fenders and running boards - but this is contentious.

I do not believe it because the rear end looks completely different.

 

 

To everyone who is interested in Mercedes cars I do recommend a visit of the German Mercedes homepage. If nothing has changed you can download there for free two comprehensive English books with tons of historic pictures in the press area. For immediate access simply type in any modelling magazine - even Bavarian-Australian Beerdrinker News  should be sufficient. You can download as pdf-files

  1. a history of the Silver Arrows racers from W25 to present
  2. a production history from the very beginning to present

 

Skip, p l e a s e  reconsider your colour choice for this fantastic kit. I built it approximately 40 years ago and in the meantime I saw many versions. Best by far looks on the model white cachwork, black fenders and trunk, silver wire wheels, raised black soft top, fenders with the integrated running boards as on your picture. But of course colours are always a matter of personal taste. 

 

Harry, of course I will show my SSKL in this forum with some acknowledgements within the next weeks. Additionally I will present several historic GP cars (among others Mercedes W 154 and W 196), some as superdetailed twins, that is the first one with and the second one without coachwork. I hope you all will be interested.

 

                                                              


Edited by Plastheniker, 12 February 2014 - 01:55 PM.


#42 sjordan2

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 10:26 AM

My color choice is based on a one-of-a-kind 1933 factory model, which also has kind of a strange engine with extra air intakes, as described in the Schlegelmilch book. Almost everyone builds the black and white version (made famous by Willy Forst), which is less to my taste. The original SS brochure also shows it in kind of a greenish cream with chocolate brown fenders with a tan top. This is a very mysterious car that I can't track down (the Mercedes Classic Center releases that kind of detail only to existing owners, they tell me), though I did see it in the corner of a video on a Salzburg car meet.

 

 

I've never seen this engine configuration on any other version.

 

33SSengine2.png

 

As for the hand pump, I was probably confusing it with this, though there is a floor-mounted foot pump on the passenger side for pumping gas.

 

mm_zpsf44fc3d4.jpg

 

 

Thanks for the gauges.


Edited by sjordan2, 08 May 2013 - 10:56 AM.


#43 Plastheniker

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 01:03 PM

Skip, Mercedes is very helpful and friendy whenever you need pictures or copies from their archives. When I scratchbuilt a pre-war Mercedes truck about 10 years ago they sent me a lot of material without any charge. I suppose they never give such an information as you wanted in order to make it difficult for criminals to make f. e. fake SSK from S or SS.

 

 

I suppose you refer to the special intake manifold on the Schlegelmilch-photo. Indeed I found no similar picture either.

There seems to be the following solution:

As seen on this table there were two different types of engines and several different versions.

 

This second picture

shows ( photo top left) engine M06, obviously for display, with an identical manifold, the 3 openings in it, however, are closed by screws. The drawing of the M06 (bottom right) shows those downward bent tubes additionally that fit into these holes exactly as seen on your picture.      


Edited by Plastheniker, 12 February 2014 - 01:56 PM.


#44 Harry P.

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 01:06 PM

Those cars had no fuel pumps, so keeping the fuel pressurized meant working the hand pump pretty much all the time, didn't it? Wasn't that one of the jobs of the ride-along mechanic back in those days?

 

Skip... "reifenluftpumpe" means "tire air pump." German has a lot of long words that are combinations of several smaller words, in this case "reifen" (tire), "luft" (air), and "pumpe" (pump).



#45 sjordan2

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:03 PM

Those cars had no fuel pumps, so keeping the fuel pressurized meant working the hand pump pretty much all the time, didn't it? Wasn't that one of the jobs of the ride-along mechanic back in those days?

 

Skip... "reifenluftpumpe" means "tire air pump." German has a lot of long words that are combinations of several smaller words, in this case "reifen" (tire), "luft" (air), and "pumpe" (pump).

 

Clearly, one semester of college German was not enough.



#46 sjordan2

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:27 AM

Jurgen -- almost all archive shots I have seen of the SSK/SSKL rolling chassis show it as completely white, including the drive shaft and axles. I know the visible parts of the axles and frame members are usually body color, but Mercedes also has an ancient history of showing a chassis in white (even the Gullwing) for PR purposes and reproduction in print.

 

Would the SSK chassis really be all white or all body color?


Edited by sjordan2, 09 May 2013 - 08:30 AM.


#47 gtx6970

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:32 AM

The Alfa I worked on has an underhood vacuum canister on the firewall. Engine vacuum fills it up and gravity feeds the carb from the reservoir



#48 sjordan2

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:46 AM



The Alfa I worked on has an underhood vacuum canister on the firewall. Engine vacuum fills it up and gravity feeds the carb from the reservoir

 

Sort of like this? It's the intermediate fuel container on the SSK.

 

878756BIGfirewallfuelank_zps736b00ae.jpg



#49 Plastheniker

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 12:06 PM

                                                                Attached File  smileys-winkende-047.gif   8.45KB   0 downloads

 

 

Skip, spontaneously I would say yes, all white without any exception. I will try to clear this up Attached File  smileys-berufe-035.gif   5.07KB   0 downloads and post tomorrow.

 

                                                                  Attached File  winke.gif   487bytes   0 downloads



#50 sjordan2

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 12:35 PM

This is what I have from my factory brochure...(click to enlarge)

 

Attached File  Picture 2.png   853.08KB   10 downloads

 

Attached File  Picture 3.png   605.6KB   9 downloads


Edited by sjordan2, 09 May 2013 - 12:36 PM.


#51 sjordan2

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 06:54 AM

kennb has moved on to the On The Workbench forum and it looks like he's off to a good start.



#52 Plastheniker

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:23 AM

                                                              

 

Skip, I reviewed everything I have upon the SSK and SSKL. I found some photos of chassis that were obviously not made for display because they are rather dirty.

 

SSK

 

SSKL

 

On these pictures are some chassis parts that are not white, f. e. the rear shock absorbers, the battery boxes end the lateral brackets for the fenders or the running boards.

 

Did Mercedes spray the SSK/SSKL chassis only white?

I found no explicit information about that, but in my oppinion it is a question of plausibility.

  • I found no clue that there was any works coachwork in a different colour than white. This seems consequential because both SSK and SSKL were meant for racing and the German racing colour was still white. There were several cars with red or black fenders ( besides white the other colours of the German flag in those days) but the chassis always remained white.
  • If a  buyer of a rolling chassis wanted his bespoke coachwork in a different colour, was it nevertheless delivered in white, only primed or sprayed in the colour of his choice? The latter seems to me least probable, because in Europe there were no standardized paints before the mid-thirties; that is why the paint of the chassis would hardly have matched the paint of the future cochwork. A primer coat only seems not very likely either, because the chassis looks so rugged and difficult to be sprayed neatly that presumably parts of the chassis were sprayed white already in that factory where they had been manufactured. Finally a I think there was no other colour choice than white. Remember that the price of SSK/SSKL was between 30.000 (SSK Chassis) and 40.000 Reichsmark (complete SSKL). Today this would be a purchasing power of roughly estimated 1.000.000 $. For a buyer who was willing and able to spend such an amount for a car it should not have been any problem to take the chassis down partially for a matching paintwork. But this all remains speculation.

 

By the way I found a picture of the SSK that won the Mille Miglia 1930. It had red fenders that look similar to the fenders of the Lindberg model.

 

                                                         

 


Edited by Plastheniker, 12 February 2014 - 01:57 PM.


#53 sjordan2

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:56 AM



I went back and looked through my files, and your bottom shot appears to be one of just a few examples with Erdmann & Rossi coachwork. The bottom picture below seems closest to the Lindberg kit.

 

ssker2_zpsffe44ede.jpg

 

 

ssker1_zpscfac1b7c.jpg

 

 

 


Edited by sjordan2, 10 May 2013 - 11:00 AM.


#54 kennb

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:46 AM

I may have to do one of these in a larger scale...................................it looks like it could be a great build.....in plastic of course,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :P The kit does not do this car justice................thanks for all the information on this..............................I almost bought the 1/16th scake 35 mercedes today..........but resisted,,,,,,$80........... :o



#55 kennb

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:59 AM

Do you know of a set of accurate drawings for this that I can work from....................................



#56 sjordan2

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:01 PM



I may have to do one of these in a larger scale...................................it looks like it could be a great build.....in plastic of course,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :P The kit does not do this car justice................thanks for all the information on this..............................I almost bought the 1/16th scake 35 mercedes today..........but resisted,,,,,,$80........... :o

 

Keep watching the 1/16 on eBay. $80 is ridiculous, but up to $65 with shipping is reasonable. Bookmark this -- you'll find a Buy It Now for $49.95. Same kit boxed under many different labels.

 

http://www.ebay.com/... ss&_sacat=2580

 

 

 By the way, the late Martin Swire was working on turning that kit into an SSK by shortening the chassis. It was his last work, and here's where he was at the time.

 

014copy.jpg



#57 Plastheniker

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:28 PM

Skip, I was wrong. My photo at the bottom shows Carraciola's 1930 car in which he arrived sixth. Of course he won in 1931.

My picture is a scan from a book where it is much clearer. Regarding the picture in the book more closely I am quite sure that it shows a standard works coachwork added by unique fenders for the Mille Miglia.

 

Indeed there is a strong resemblance between your second picture and the Lindberg model even if the top of the coachwork seems to be more roundish.



#58 Plastheniker

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:50 PM

Kenneth, I saw your request for drawings. I have some scale drawings for SSK/SSKL. If you want them, please let me know. Then I would post them tomorrow.



#59 sjordan2

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:05 PM



Do you know of a set of accurate drawings for this that I can work from....................................

 

Can't vouch for the accuracy here

 

http://www.the-bluep...des-benz_ssk_l/

 

 

This is a factory brochure drawing

 

sskbroch_zpsb62d5ce2.jpg

 

mercedes-benz-ssk-71l-1928copy_zpsf38e59

 

Mercedes-SSKL-1929Scopy_zps90263abf.jpg

 

Here's a better image of the last one:

 

http://www.mgussin.f...s-SSKL-1929.jpg


Edited by sjordan2, 10 May 2013 - 01:09 PM.


#60 sjordan2

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:49 AM

Attached File  MERCEDESBENZTypSSK-2541_10.jpg   51.69KB   2 downloads

 

 

I also made the following post in kennb's work in progress thread, but I thought it made as much sense to post it here...

 

 

For those who are interested in building a box-stock version of the Lindberg kit, I found several shots of a very similar car at the link below. Click through the slide show. As Jurgen mentioned in the kit review thread of this subject, leave off the bumpers.

 

 

http://www.autoevolu...ml#sjmp?slide=1


Edited by sjordan2, 13 May 2013 - 10:52 AM.