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Contest models that got skunked - show 'em!


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#21 Eshaver

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 08:58 AM

Steve, having Gene Winfield pick up your car and look it over is better than any prize.

 

 

B)  :D

 

Yes, Mr. Winfield knows I'm one of his most ardent fans . A lady I do freelance writing for passes messages between us . One of these days' I hope to meet with him. Did you know he's completely "Self Taught " ?



#22 1930fordpickup

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 09:44 AM

B)  :D

 

Yes, Mr. Winfield knows I'm one of his most ardent fans . A lady I do freelance writing for passes messages between us . One of these days' I hope to meet with him. Did you know he's completely "Self Taught " ?

I have heard that from a very lovely lady at his both . I have talked to him a few times at shows . A great guy , just wonder if he has a book out yet? Better yet Ed write the movie script. 



#23 JM485

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 09:58 AM

Josh,

 

You said the most important thing to remember:  It's one of your favorite builds.  So enjoy it.  Build for yourself, not for "the audience."

 

A part of the problem with your model not getting the attention you think it deserves may be the subject matter.  A model should stand out from the crowd in order to get attention.  Frankly, the General Lee has been done way beyond death.  They all look alike.  "Just another General Lee."  Even if yours is the only General Lee at today's contest, it still looks just like all the others people have seen over the years.  Even if yours is the best ever, it's still just another General Lee at first glance.

 

I build a lot of police car models.  The same thing happens with them. EVERYBODY builds California Highway Patrol cars.  The manufacturers always kit police cars with CHP decals.  All the prefinished kits are or include CHP versions.  Go to any contest where there are police car models and there will always be some if not all or most CHP cars.  They've been done to death, too.  Most audiences looking at a black & white police car model will assume it's CHP without actually looking closer.  So, to stand out from that crowd and to get your police car model noticed, you have to build something OTHER than a CHP version.

 

Those are good points Danno.  Either way, I will keep on bringing it with me because I really like to display it.  Always important to remember, build for yourself, not others. :D



#24 IHSS

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 12:48 PM

I wasn't expecting an award or anything. But with how much work I put into the conversion I thought it might get noticed, but it was like it wasn't even on the table.

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Edited by IHSS, 16 June 2013 - 12:59 PM.


#25 Lownslow

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:09 PM

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#26 Tom Geiger

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 02:19 PM

Everything said about judging in this thread is pretty much valid.  The big problem overall is that we don't have an international or national oversight for judging standards and qualifying judges. So every show does it their way, from struggling to have the best most knowledgeable judges who strive to get it right, down to shows where the awards are won by their club members or judging is done by unqualified people who just 'pick their favorites'. I've seen shows that didn't have judges up front and were frantically chasing participants to help judge.  Not a model for fairness and consistency!

 

Back when competing was important to me in the 1980s, I noticed that I was competing against the same people in the shows I attended. The very same models would place in a different order at the different shows.  I'd win first, second and third against the same vehicles. I got to thinking we might just put them all in a paper sack and pull them out in random order for the awards.  

 

Then as times change, tastes and attitudes do also.  I built the below '59 Chevy convertible back when this kit first came out in the mid 1980s as part of my club's same kit contest. Junkers hadn't come of age just yet.  I built the car to compete in the Factory Stock class.  I made sure everything on the car was from the factory, just worn past the end of it's life. I even made sure the hubcap in the trunk was stock for that car.  Well the 1980s wasn't ready for this car and it never placed at a show!  Most shows would pull it out of the class and put it in the Misc class to compete with motorcycles and tanks.  I'd argue my point and read their own rules to them., Then they'd say something like, "Well what we really meant was..."  So I put the car on my shelf and forgot about it.

 

Ten years later a buddy and I were going up to Masscar. He asked what I was bringing and I told him I didn't have anything recent to compete with. He reminded me of the old Chevy on my shelf and suggested I just bring it along to participate. I agreed and was surprised when it won Best Interior. The next show it won Best Chevrolet and it placed at every show after that even winning Best Replica Stock at Mama's!  I guess the car came of age ten years later!

 

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On the other hand the 'Cutting Edge' advances every year. The vehicles I won with in the 1980s are no longer competitive in today's contests. And I'm fine with that. Today I build to satisfy the voices in my head. If I can get that image in my mind out in 3D on the bench in front of me, I'm a happy camper!


Edited by Tom Geiger, 16 June 2013 - 02:20 PM.


#27 jaymcminn

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 04:24 PM

Well, I'll just throw this one in here. I entered this a couple of years back in Pembroke Pines and thought it would have done a little better than it actually did. Not that I'm complaining or anything, as I did take home my share of hardware from that contest, but I had pretty high hopes for this little sucker...

 

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#28 Lunajammer

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 07:10 PM

'Cutting Edge' advances every year. The vehicles I won with in the 1980s are no longer competitive in today's contests. And I'm fine with that. 

 

My experiences exactly. I used to be confident I'd place somewhere at each contest but winning builds have advanced to a point that, frankly, I'm not willing to go to so I would not even feel that good about a win if I felt I didn't deserve it. It doesn't change my enjoyment of participating.

 

If it helps Rob, sometimes the most memorable, most talked about, most photographed models at a show don't place. No awards for you, but a half dozen modelers went home thinking about doing something you did. And that goes for the rest o' ya.


Edited by Lunajammer, 16 June 2013 - 07:11 PM.


#29 Tom Geiger

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 04:23 AM

 

My experiences exactly. I used to be confident I'd place somewhere at each contest but winning builds have advanced to a point that, frankly, I'm not willing to go to so I would not even feel that good about a win if I felt I didn't deserve it. It doesn't change my enjoyment of participating.

 

If it helps Rob, sometimes the most memorable, most talked about, most photographed models at a show don't place. No awards for you, but a half dozen modelers went home thinking about doing something you did. And that goes for the rest o' ya.

 

And that's exactly the reason for NNLs.  Everyone gets the enjoyment of participating and showing  their work without the pressure of judging, winning and losing.  In my book, if I meet someone at the show who really enjoys a model of mine, that makes my day, and I've made a new friend!



#30 Quick GMC

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:15 AM

I have never been to a mode show. I keep finding out about them after the fact and my schedule is hectic. I'd LOVE to go. If I had a model I felt was presentable enough to enter, that alone would be an accomplishment for me. 



#31 sak

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:40 AM

Everyone has different tastes. Might be the subject matter. I dont even open any 69 camaro, 57 chevy,32 ford or 50 mercetc etc.. threads just because its seems all the same to me now. But thats just me. I probably missing some good stuff. But what gets my attention is stuff like the amc matador or any obscure stuff. Or a replication of a strange color combo. A mustang don't need to be grabber blue to knock your socks off. Try champagne gold or medium lime.



#32 Eric Macleod

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:07 AM

I have been the organizer and (for a while) the only judge in a small local model contest. I actually stopped my participation in the event in part because of the backlash from participants, some of which was probably very legitimate. I did learn a few things from participating on both sides of the table.

1. Nobody knows the real quality of a model better than the builder. My own models have been skunked by other models of my own that I only brought along because I thought they were neat, not because I thought they were great builds.

2. Judging is indeed subjective, a beautifully built abliet "blah" model just doesn't get noticed on a table of red, yellow and plum crazy models.

3. The judge does not know if you built a model strait out of the box or if you completed extensive modifications unless you tell them, preferably with extensive documentaton. i.e. Once, a judge asked me where I got the kit for my 1930 Duesenberg Rolston Victoria. When I told him there was no kit he simply did not believe me. While I won the box stock class (I was happy about that) the other participants were not pleased to see me with the trophy because, justifiably, my model was not box stock.

4. Judges do not know every detail about every kit nor do they know the difficulty producing a spectacular model (unless it is a Pyro Cord, or any Revell multi-piece bodied kit) which everyone seems to know about.

5. There are some models and participants who are so pleasing that their enthusiasm outweighs the quality of their builds. I KNOW this is controversial, but it happens. I once had a participant show a model for the very first time. He built it as an 8 year old some 45 years previously and successfully argued that it should be in the youth class (he was the only one in the class by the way). It was a neat model for being 40+ years old. Later, I was then confronted by a participant who was holding literally an armfull of awards. He was mad that I had shown "favortism" and he vowed to never return to my contest. Good riddance!

6. In fairness to everyone, the best models don't always win. I have passed over a spectacular model (and arguably the best model at the show) simply because the builder won best of show the previous three years in a row. I decided (and that builder agreed with me when I talked to him about it) that we would lose participants if they felt there was no chance anyone else could win Best of Show at that particular contest.

There are probably other things, and perhaps I have stirred up a hornet's nest, but those are a few of my

observations.

The models I have seen in this thread all look great to me. Maybe some of my observations account for the reasons they were overlooked?

Eric


Edited by Eric Macleod, 17 June 2013 - 07:13 AM.


#33 Tom Geiger

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 11:46 AM

 

6. In fairness to everyone, the best models don't always win. I have passed over a spectacular model (and arguably the best model at the show) simply because the builder won best of show the previous three years in a row. I decided (and that builder agreed with me when I talked to him about it) that we would lose participants if they 

 

At most shows any model that wins a major award (first in category, best in show) is no longer eligible for awards at that show again. Most modelers I know wouldn't think of competing again with the same model.

 

While we're at it,  my  pet peeve is shows where the membership of the sponsoring club win the lionshare of the awards. My own belief is that you are either hosting an event or participating in an event. If you are hosting, your guests should win the awards.  It sets an air of fairness. Even if the club members won the awards fair and square, it just doesn't look right.  Same for judges. They'll say they are competing in categories they're not judging, but it just leaves them open for criticism.  For the record, at NNL East the Tri-State members aren't eligible for awards. Our models are all on our club table, without numbers needed for voting on them. 



#34 Danno

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 11:54 AM

Tom,

 

I don't think he meant the same model over and over.  I think he meant the same builder won best of show three consecutive years. 

I understand how that can stifle participation after awhile.

 

 

At Desert Scale Classic, we handle it a little differently. 

 

The members of our host club, Cactus Car Modelers, are not eligible to enter the critically-judged DSC. 

 

But, we have a separate and concurrent ( at the same time, Jim) club contest and display.  Host Club Members enter that, and the spectators and DSC entrants judge the Club contest by Peoples' Choice style balloting. 

 

That way, the hosts aren't competing with the entrants/guests, and the entrants/guests have a chance to get even with the hosts!     :P



#35 Ramfins59

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:20 PM

 

At most shows any model that wins a major award (first in category, best in show) is no longer eligible for awards at that show again. Most modelers I know wouldn't think of competing again with the same model.

 

While we're at it,  my  pet peeve is shows where the membership of the sponsoring club win the lionshare of the awards. My own belief is that you are either hosting an event or participating in an event. If you are hosting, your guests should win the awards.  It sets an air of fairness. Even if the club members won the awards fair and square, it just doesn't look right.  Same for judges. They'll say they are competing in categories they're not judging, but it just leaves them open for criticism.  For the record, at NNL East the Tri-State members aren't eligible for awards. Our models are all on our club table, without numbers needed for voting on them. 

I totally agree with you on this Tom.  For years, when I lived on Long Island (NY), I always asked that the members of the LIARS Club not enter their models in our Model Car Challenge show, but most of the members ignored that request.  I felt that it did not look good if a LIARS member won any of the awards, and it might discourage other people from attending and/or participating in our show.  Members who did not travel to other shows off of Long Island would enter our show as they felt it was their chance to enter a contest.  There really was no way to stop them, short of kicking them out of the club.  Even if we tried to "forbid" them to enter a model, chances are that they would have quit the club anyway.

 

I know what you mean about a sponsoring club's members winning the awards.... one club up in the northeast has had that "problem" for years...  First Place this class, First Place that class, Best this, Best that, Best In Show... They really should get that under control.  Granted, the best model in a class should win, however, let the people coming to the show have a chance to take home the Gold.



#36 Tom Geiger

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:59 PM

I don't think he meant the same model over and over.  I think he meant the same builder won best of show three consecutive years. 

I understand how that can stifle participation after awhile.

 

 

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Edited by Tom Geiger, 17 June 2013 - 01:00 PM.


#37 Nick Winter

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 01:06 PM

I only compete for fun, these ones I have taken and not won anything for, doesn't bother me though, still had lots of fun those days anyway.

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I don't have luck with my 32 fords I guess.

 

Nick



#38 sak

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:36 PM

Interesting theories.could it be possible that some badass models get snubbed outa spite. Because people know its better than the one they have...

#39 customsrus

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 11:04 PM

I entered this one at a local show a couple weeks ago and unfortunately it did not place. I was told by one of the people conducting the show that the people judging thought it was an out of the box build. I did take a few other builds and they all placed in their respective categories. Apparently they thought it was a 70 chevelle with painted bumpers and not a 2015 chevelle concept. I did have a great time at this show and I am not in anyway discouraged that this did not place, there was a lot of great build there that day. Maybe next time !!!!

 

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#40 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 11:55 PM

This Chevelle of mine has been consistently overlooked, and (like customsrus) I've also been told some judges thought it was simply an out of the box build with painted bumpers and nice paint. It would be good to be judged by people who had enough knowledge of car design to recognize a 4" top-chop, and enough knowledge of model building to realize the level of difficulty in chopping this particular car. It would also have been nice had anyone bothered to actually read the data cards with the model that explained all of the mods, including the full-custom C5-R derived, road-racing chassis. But hey, it's not a perfect world, is it? So far, best it's done is a second in a minor hobby shop show. Lost out to a box-stock build of a Hurst Hairy Olds because the judges saw TWO engines in the Olds and didn't realize the OLDS was a straight kit build. Oh well.

 

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Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 18 June 2013 - 12:08 AM.