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B-17 flying fortress (and the questions that go along with it)


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#1 diymirage

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:33 PM

hey guys

 

very very long way about but we will be studying the book of revelation in my sundayschool class soon and this is a perfect excuse to build a WW2 bomber

(a gold star for anyone who can find the connection)

 

I haven't build a plane in decades and I haven't put any serious effort into it, ever

 

 

I have no intention of replicating a actual plane so I don't mind if I mix call signals or paint the propeller hub the wrong colour

 

what I would like to get right is the "look" of a WW2 bomber plane that has put in some time and has the scars to show for it

so, if anyone has any advise on how to weather the thing, or how to paint it (for instance, what colour is the inside of the wheel wells?) i'd love to hear it

 

 

oh, when I finally get round to building this will be where the progress will be reported



#2 Len Woodruff

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:10 PM

I would be interested in any information you collect. My dad was a Tail Gunner on a B-17G flying bombing runs over Europe in the 100th Bomb Group.



#3 slusher

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:38 PM

Eelco, sounds like a very interesting build subject. There are so many parts on those. Escale forum has lots of military builders..



#4 rustbucket82

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:17 PM

Interior of the plane with be interior green, your wheel wheels will be green zinc chromate 



#5 diymirage

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:32 PM

thanks Jared

would the same go for the inside of the engine cowl? (chromate yellow)

 

 

Carl. I think im gonna stay here, I like this crowd ;)

 

Lenn, (not named after your grandfather are you?) I actually found a ton of references from different model builders and one site in particular you might find interesting:

http://www.100thbg.com/

 

oh, and I also found your grand dad: tail gunner corporal Leonard G. Woodruff  (bottom right)

1_32_1_zpsefe9bde7.jpg

 

 

 

 

ill see if I like the marking off the century bombers, 350th squad, I may incorporate some of them in my build :)



#6 rustbucket82

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:42 PM

depending on where the plane was built would determine the primer used on the engine cowling. green zinc chromate or yellow would be correct



#7 slusher

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 05:20 PM

Eelco, l like it here to. Just thought you could do some research there. Same setup as this forum but not near as good of forum...



#8 Steven Zimmerman

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 05:55 PM

For some reason the lyrics of a Neal Young song come to mind....



#9 jeffb

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 06:01 PM

cool stuff. the b17 is one of my fav aircraft. my 6th grade teacher was a pilot.. cant seem to find his name anywhere tho.



#10 Len Woodruff

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 02:26 AM

thanks Jared

would the same go for the inside of the engine cowl? (chromate yellow)

 

 

Carl. I think im gonna stay here, I like this crowd ;)

 

Lenn, (not named after your grandfather are you?) I actually found a ton of references from different model builders and one site in particular you might find interesting:

http://www.100thbg.com/

 

oh, and I also found your grand dad: tail gunner corporal Leonard G. Woodruff  (bottom right)

1_32_1_zpsefe9bde7.jpg

 

 

 

 

ill see if I like the marking off the century bombers, 350th squad, I may incorporate some of them in my build :)

 

Thanks for the post. It is my DAD (not granddad) in the picture.

I am named after him. Leonard G. Woodruff, Jr.

 

Years ago the pilot in the picture owned a B-17 that he flew to Dallas and my dad (and others) were able to take a flight around the area on it. He was ecstatic after the flight and talked about it for years afterwords.

 

I recently purchased the 1/48 Revell/Monogram B-17G since it looked like it had the most after market parts available. However I hear someone is doing a 1/32 scale version of the plan. 


Edited by Len Woodruff, 13 July 2013 - 02:27 AM.


#11 diymirage

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:36 AM

steve, the song that came to my mind was by Jamey Johnson "in color"

the second verse actually talks about a tailgunner :)

 

Lenn, you did mention it was your dad, I just assumed it was your grand dad, probably because my grand dad lived through the war and he was a little boy, 7-12 I think

 

the revel 1/48 kit is the one I will be building

I started working on it yesterday and the first thing I did was "wrong"

the instructions call for the trim on the glass pieces to be the colour as the fuselage but I decided to paint them silver

my hands aren't that stable and I was never very good at painting tiny trim like this so I used the silver sharpie I also use to paint trim on car interior and it worked great

(the trim is raised detail so I just very lightly put the tip of it on there and let the paint flow into the detail)



#12 Agent G

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 02:17 PM

Cockpit-Bronze green Kinda a Boeing trademark.

 

Interior is mostly yellow zinc and or green zinc chromate stringers with natural aluminum side walls. Remember the actual primer does not have a color per se. It is tinted for the painters to tell coats/coverage.

 

Engine cowlings wheel wells could be green or yellow. Propeller blades are black with yellow tips. Hubs are usually bare metal. :D

 

Until late '44 or so B17G models were Olive Drab over Neutral Gray. USAAF OD faded to a slightly brown green in the sun. Patches/repairs would be painted fresh showing darker. After that bare aluminum with OD or bronze green anti glare panels Lots of staining from those big leaky radials.

Ailerons, rudder and elevators were mostly fabric covered. They would fade differently.

 

G



#13 diymirage

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 05:43 PM

thanks Wayne

 

 

I've decided to go with olive drab over neutral grey though I might put in a tad more blue

for the interior I have read the cockpit used a green (ish) insolation, im planning on using paper towel for that

 

I also picked up a can of green chromate and a can of yellow chromate

I will use the yellow for the inside of the engine shrouds and the wheel wells

 

the green is too bright, I was going to mix in some grey or so and use that for the interior

but you tell me the interior is not painted nor primered, save for the stringers

 

 

I kinda really like this one (is this the radiators you refered to leaking on the wings?)

 

02_zpsd6bcbacd.jpg



#14 Agent G

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 07:43 PM

Yes there, around the cowlings and underneath the wings as well. The turbo's were just as leaky as the engines themselves. Those are wing vents as there are no radiators, the engines are air cooled. Waste gas from turbo dumps was vented out there I believe.

 

Also the floor that the waist gunners stood on was just varnished plywood as was the floor in the nose and navigators table.

 

That is a good representation of an early G model.

 

G


Edited by Agent G, 13 July 2013 - 07:45 PM.


#15 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 08:39 AM

This is a great warbird weathering article.  http://www.rcscalebu...ing/default.htm

 

The B-17 had a very distinct underwing appearance too. If I recall correctly, the turbos exhausted under the wings, out of ports behind the wheel wells on the inboard engines, and a bit farther forward on the outboard engines. This is clearly evident in this shot. (Pirated from an open internet source under the "fair use" definition in copyright law)

 

real.jpg

 

There is a ring of oil mist residue around the back side of the cowling (just behind the cowl flaps) and a high-time engine could leak a lot of oil. There is also a concentration of oil residue at the bottom of this area, where engine oil would drip into the cowlings and collect while the aircraft was parked, and then be blown out on engine-startup. Steps were taken to channel this excessive oil leakage away from the landing gear wells aft of the inboard engines.


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 14 July 2013 - 12:34 PM.


#16 diymirage

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:56 AM

thanks for the link Bill, there are some good tips on there

 

the turbos are a nice molded in detail on the kit so that should be simple enough to detail

since we're talking about the engine cowl, I was thinking of painting those red, those and the tail rudders

 

so, cowl flaps, what are they, what are they for and what colour should they be?



#17 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 12:09 PM

Here's a good shot of a turbocharger on the inboard engine. ( Both photos pirated from open internet sources under the "fair use" definition in copyright law )

 

14B-17turbocharger.jpg

 

 

The best shot I found of cowl flaps is of this P-47 fighter, which also has a big radial air-cooled engine. They are the slightly overlapping doors between the main section of the engine cowling and the fuselage, and they open and close to divert cooling air...typically open on the ground while taxiing, and under high power. They are open here, and are open on the above photo, but are closed and streamlined on the left outboard engine (closest to camera) in the in-flight picture I posted earlier, but appear to be partially open on the left inboard engine. On the B-17, they'd usually be about the same color as the rest of the airplane.

 

07.jpg


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 14 July 2013 - 12:35 PM.


#18 diymirage

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 02:54 PM

thanks Bill, that's a great help

 

and to show you I am actually working on something, here are a few shots of the engine

 

2013-07-14_18-37-28_101_zps68770f62.jpg

 

haven't paint the props yet, or the outside of the cowls but just to show how it sits in there

 

 

2013-07-14_18-37-56_635_zps839e6543.jpg