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Revell '65 Chevy Stepside (historical build)


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#21 James2

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:50 AM

That's a great kit to work with. Research and part sourcing is what makes the hobby more interesting. Good luck with your project.



#22 Union Modelworks

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:15 AM

@James Ries: Yeah the kit seems pretty good from what I can tell. The engine has been a little tricky since the fit is a little off for my "standards." I agree with your statement. Research is what makes this so great. I'm learning a lot about this truck and autos in general.

 

I have a question for everyone. I've been looking over a lot of engine compartment photos via Google image, and eBay Motors. While the top-down visual is great, for someone like me who knows very little about wiring and engines, it can be tough to know where wires go to. Does anyone know where I could find a 64 or 65 engine compartment diagram or illustration showing the bottom half as well?

 

I basically need to know where along the compartment the battery cable connects. I know the ground (-) hooks to the engine or the frame somewhere, but not sure of exact location. From what I understand the positive (+) connects to the starter, which in this case looks like is mounted to the side of the oil pan. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm also wondering how the alternator gets powered, and wonder if the starter wire continues along the compartment to eventually connect to the alternator? As you can see, I'm totally guessing.

 

I'd also like to remove the over-scaled fan belt off the pulleys and connect the alternator appropriately. Luckily I've found some decent reference photos for that. The only place I've seen aftermarket alternators is Model Car Garage. Please let me know if you guys have another source.

 

The stock carburetor will be replaced with a ProTech Holley. My uncle mentioned he had a Rochester carb, but I can't seem to find those in aftermarket. Again, let me know if you've seen the Rochester's.

 

I know there are some other small wiring parts and possibly the fuel line, but it all depends on finding a good wiring illustration to reference. I had planned on using a MAD distributor, but I'm still trying to find out what size wires he uses for the spark plug wire. I'd like to stay as close to scale as possible.

 

Here are some different size measurements I've come up with based on research here on the forum, and 1:1 motor part descriptions.

 

Spark Plug Wire: 8mm (generally)  |  1:25 = .0125" = 28awg wire.

Heater Hose: 5/8"  |  1:25 = .025" = 22awg wire.

Heater Hose: 3/4"  |  1:25 = .03" = 20awg wire.

Radiator Hose: 1 3/4"  |  1:25 = .07" 13awg wire.

Battery Cable: 1/4"  |  1:25 = .01" = 30awg wire.

 

I know Detail Master carries quite a few of these, but they are not always the "correct" scale. I've also heard the discussion on the boards about using a slightly bigger wire because of "scale effect." An issue where the correct size actually looks too small. Personally, I'd like to see both sizes for myself in person before I choose a size of wire. I'd like to be prototypical if possible, but understand it could look odd at times. Again, just need to see it for myself.

 

So there you have it. Lots of research. Any thoughts or feedback is very welcomed.



#23 James2

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:01 AM

​I like to use items found more so than store bought detail pieces, although I do use detail master wires. I source a lot of things at the show/swap meets.

Hobby Lobby is another great place to find small detailing pieces. I also like to go with what looks best on a model not always true true scale. 

Try narrowing your search too! Small block Chevy pictures in the search engine will give better detail. And one thing I do, if a wire runs some where you can't see why bother running all the way. Just do what looks good. 

Any way, I look forward to seeing the progress on your truck.



#24 Union Modelworks

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:16 AM

Hey James,

 

I totally agree about not running a wire if you can't see it. It's good to keep it simple in that case. I guess I'm mainly looking for the wire locations of what you can see from the top, but I know have to end somewhere. And I figured a couple of those wires will cross down into the engine into areas I currently can't see. I'll try your search term to see what else I can come up with.

 

Looking forward to feedback from others as well.



#25 Longbox55

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:48 AM

There really isn't much wiring that goes to the bottom of the engine compartment, with the exception of the battery cable that goes to the starter solenoid. The only wiring the would go to the bottom of the truck would be the harness going to the tail lights, fuel gauge sending unit, and  the back up lights if equipped (those were optional). The rest of the harness is pretty much on top.



#26 Union Modelworks

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 04:18 PM

@Bill Burmeister: Yeah, I totally agree this will be basic, and I understand that. I'm not trying to put every little detail, but the ones that stand out to me I'm not even sure where they are. And I guess I should mention hoses too.

 

I basically need to know where the positive and negative battery hook to.

Where at on the engine do the heater hoses connect. I've seen the photos and it looks like the manifold and water pump, but I'm not totally sure.

The radiator hose looks pretty straight forward, but I guess there is a bottom one too.

The distributor looks straight forward, but I know that one wire connect to the coil, correct?

What wires connect to the alternator?

What are the mess of hoses by the brake booster?

There are some random wires running across the back by the firewall that I am unsure of.

And some other details that are on the carburetor, brake fluid reservoir, etc.

 

All basic stuff to the trained eye, but I'm seriously a car novice. While I don't plan on modeling everything, I do like learning how things work too; thus the reason for asking. Thanks for the summary on the harness as well.



#27 Longbox55

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 01:25 PM

Burt, I see where you're coming from. I've been seeing about finding a good source of factory pix for you, not coming up with much. However, I can give you an excellent source of information and references, Stovebolt.com. It's a site for pre '72 Chevrolet and GMC trucks. Here's a link to the '60-'66 Gallery http://www.stovebolt...lery 60 66.html You might also check out House of Woogeroo, who is a moderator on Stovebolt and '60-'66 Chevrolet truck nut. http://houseofwooger...m/19601966ctis/

One more site that may help you is Jolly Goodfellows (yes, that's his real name) site, 6066 GMC Truck Guy http://www.6066gmcguy.org/ His site deals pretty much with GMC only, but there are similarities between them and Chevrolet (back them, Chevy and GMC were not the same truck with a different badge).



#28 Union Modelworks

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:40 PM

Thanks, Bill. I will look into those links. I do appreciate your time. At some point I will have something to actually show for all the help you guys have given me.



#29 Union Modelworks

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 08:49 PM

Can you guys tell me what kind of oil filter might have been used on this truck in the '80s? If you look at what the kit provides (photo below), I'm not sure that it is correct.

 

I have some aftermarket filters that look more modern, but only want to use them if it's prototypical.

 

You'll also notice the big gap between the filter and where it would attach. I have since cut the filter off and will glue it directly without that gap. I'm assuming the kit just doesn't fit well?

 

null_zps2789382c.jpg



#30 blunc

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:41 PM

Can you guys tell me what kind of oil filter might have been used on this truck in the '80s? If you look at what the kit provides (photo below), I'm not sure that it is correct.

 

I have some aftermarket filters that look more modern, but only want to use them if it's prototypical.

 

You'll also notice the big gap between the filter and where it would attach. I have since cut the filter off and will glue it directly without that gap. I'm assuming the kit just doesn't fit well?

 

null_zps2789382c.jpg

common "spin-on" oil filters for this would have been Fram(orange), AC Delco(blue), Purolator(white).

 

good call on cutting the filter off the pan, it will look better glued properly to the oil filter adapter.


Edited by blunc, 25 August 2013 - 09:52 PM.


#31 Union Modelworks

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:50 AM

Thanks, Mike. So is it safe to assume that the kit filter was an older style used in the '60s? I've seen pictures of them still in use, so it makes me wonder if they were just the outside and you replaced the filter inside. Unlike more modern filters where you just replace the whole thing. I'm totally guessing, so please set me straight if this is wrong. It also appears that modern filters have a "beveled" grab area near the top, where as these older ones did not. Again, I assume that any newer filter could fit on an older motor as there was no special modification needed to attach?



#32 blunc

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 07:04 AM

Thanks, Mike. So is it safe to assume that the kit filter was an older style used in the '60s? I've seen pictures of them still in use, so it makes me wonder if they were just the outside and you replaced the filter inside. Unlike more modern filters where you just replace the whole thing. I'm totally guessing, so please set me straight if this is wrong. It also appears that modern filters have a "beveled" grab area near the top, where as these older ones did not. Again, I assume that any newer filter could fit on an older motor as there was no special modification needed to attach?

Many early engines didn't even have an oil filter, some just had a screen to catch big chunks.

 

When they did move to filtering the oil, most had a filter cartridge/cannister system. When "spin-on" filters got to be popular, adapters were marketed to convert most of the common block types.  I had a '57 Ford Y-block that had been converted, it was a lot less messy than the cartridge/cannister type.

 

The oil filter cast on your motor is a little crude but visually "okay", most spin-on filters for the time period you are portraying had fairly straight sides with a slightly convex bottom.  I doubt any contest judge would ding you if you painted it the proper color and put the correct brand for that color.  How exactingly correct is up to you.

 

A google image search should give you some examples if you search for chevy engines of the displacement you are duplicating.

 

There are a couple decent looking quadrajet carbs that can be used for this but I don't know what kit at this time.  A Carter or Edelbrock carb will give a closer representation than a Holley will but that is up to you.



#33 Longbox55

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 03:14 PM

On '56-'67 Chevrolet V8s, they used a canister type filter. The housing had a large bolt that ran through the bottom of it into the block. To change the filter, the bolt was taken loose, and the entire canister was removed. Only the filter element and gasket were changed. Chevrolet went to the spin on style in '68 on V8s. There was both a GM adapter as well as several aftermarket adapters to convers the older engines to the newer style spin on. If you want to see the specific canister style filter, the element number is PF141 in AC, or CH200PL in Fram. The housing was generally black, though i have seen both blue and yellow variants that were factory.



#34 Union Modelworks

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:58 PM

Thanks to both of you for such great replies.

 

Bill, that is great to know for future reference as well. The reason I started questioning this was because of these two photos. Both are Chevy engines of the '60s, yet they use different filters. Any thoughts on why the second engine is not using the standard canister type?

 

01_zps1117713f.jpg

 

 

01_zpsd28bdfd0.jpg



#35 blunc

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 06:45 PM

the engine in the second photo could be a newer engine, I see an HEI distributor on it but that is not always a sure sign, the electronic ign distributors will fit most applications.

 

I changed out the points distributor in my 68 firebird to HEI, never had a problem with ignition nor timing after that.



#36 Longbox55

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 02:53 PM

If you look closely at the filter on the second engine, you'll notice what looks to be a 1/4" tall aluminum peice at the top of the filter. That's the adapter for converting it to the later filter.