Jump to content


Airbrush Help


  • You cannot reply to this topic
13 replies to this topic

#1 Chris White

Chris White

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,129 posts
  • Location:Toronto, Canada
  • Full Name:Chris White

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:00 AM

I am really trying hard to enjoy this airbrush, but I am coming across a lot of cons vs pros. I have a badger 350, and a paasche 400 r compressor. I think my main issue is with the budget friendly airbrush. It is hard to get right with the thinning of paint, and is a pain in the butt to clean. Would I be better to swap it out to a Iwata Neo, or Eclipse model, or stick it out with a bigger needle in the 350. I also don't like the fact that the paint cup does not have a lid ( I have spilt allot). I have always appreciated the advise of my fellow forum members and look forward to your suggestions here.



#2 Mike Kucaba

Mike Kucaba

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,153 posts
  • Location:Mesa,AZ
  • Full Name:Michael J Kucaba

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:14 AM

I use 1:1 as a starting point for thinning. Your right about that AB, but it's Still better than any aerosol nozzle. Maybe try a Paasche H? It's a external single action, but a little more precise? 



#3 Bill Eh?

Bill Eh?

    MCM Avid Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 368 posts
  • Location:Toronto, ON
  • Full Name:Bill Allen

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:17 AM

Hey Chris, if you are thinking about an Iwata Neo, then if you could stretch the budget a little further, then consider the Iwata Revolution CR. Are you going to the Group 25 contest next weekend?



#4 Chris White

Chris White

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,129 posts
  • Location:Toronto, Canada
  • Full Name:Chris White

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:20 AM

Hey Chris, if you are thinking about an Iwata Neo, then if you could stretch the budget a little further, then consider the Iwata Revolution CR. Are you going to the Group 25 contest next weekend?

thinkin about it, for once I am off your that weekend  



#5 Chris White

Chris White

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,129 posts
  • Location:Toronto, Canada
  • Full Name:Chris White

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:22 AM

I use 1:1 as a starting point for thinning. Your right about that AB, but it's Still better than any aerosol nozzle. Maybe try a Paasche H? It's a external single action, but a little more precise? 

 

Thanks Bill, what do you cut with, thinner or glass cleaner  



#6 Bill Eh?

Bill Eh?

    MCM Avid Poster

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 368 posts
  • Location:Toronto, ON
  • Full Name:Bill Allen

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:51 AM

Chris, for Tamiya acrylics, I use Tamiya acrylic thinner. For just about everything else, (cheap) lacquer thinner. Every type and brand has its own characteristics as to thinning ratios. As Mike said, start with 1:1 and go from there; either more thinner or less thinner. Heck, even within some paint lines, you have to thin differently depending on which colour your spraying; different colour pigments can each have a different viscosity.



#7 Erik Smith

Erik Smith

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,057 posts
  • Location:Spokane, WA
  • Full Name:Erik Smith

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:56 AM

Don't get a NEO. Get an eclipse or comparable Badger model. I prefer my eclipse gravity feed over the siphon - and it comes with a cup cover.

Also, cleaning shouldn't be a chore - spray cleaner through after painting, swab, and you should be good. Spray cleaner until no color is evident. You can tear down and clean, but that's not necessary after every change.

I find, with the Iwata, thinner is better. Tamiya paints go in 1 part paint, 1 part thinner. Maybe a little more paint, but that's where I start with most ratios.

Once you get in a groove, hopefully, you will find yourself spraying everything - it just gives a better finish and faster drying than hand painting or rattle cans.

#8 Chris White

Chris White

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,129 posts
  • Location:Toronto, Canada
  • Full Name:Chris White

Posted 15 September 2013 - 07:15 AM

Don't get a NEO. Get an eclipse or comparable Badger model. I prefer my eclipse gravity feed over the siphon - and it comes with a cup cover.

Also, cleaning shouldn't be a chore - spray cleaner through after painting, swab, and you should be good. Spray cleaner until no color is evident. You can tear down and clean, but that's not necessary after every change.

I find, with the Iwata, thinner is better. Tamiya paints go in 1 part paint, 1 part thinner. Maybe a little more paint, but that's where I start with most ratios.

Once you get in a groove, hopefully, you will find yourself spraying everything - it just gives a better finish and faster drying than hand painting or rattle cans.

Thanks, that's the answer I was looking for. I appreciate that. Looks like I have to convince the wife I need to spend more money He He   



#9 my80malibu

my80malibu

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,916 posts
  • Location:Gilbert Arizona
  • Full Name:GABRIEL SOTO

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:10 PM

The Neo, by Iwata comes in a gravity fed model too. about $45.00 with a Hobby Lobby 40% off coupon,  It is a double action, not one that I would recomend for a beginner, although it does work well once you get thee hang of it. As for a beginner A.B. Badger 200 is my preference, about $80.00 avg range, it is a suction fed brush that does very well, and will out perform the 350 any day.It features easy cleaning, well balanced, and lifetime warranty teflon seals.Usually found at Michaels craft stores and they have a 50% coupon offer from time to time. Use that logic on the Wife, they love a bargain especially when you just surprise them with it, and just show up with it. Kinda like a new pair of shoes. B)  



#10 935k3

935k3

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 931 posts
  • Location:Mechanicsburg, PA

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:18 PM

Chris whatever you do don't give up on airbrushing. It is really fun and satisfying when you learn to do it. We all start somewhere and learn allot on the way. You can get Iawata Eclipse at Hobby Lobby with a 40% off coupon for about $120.00. The NEO is an authorized by Iawata airbrush made in China. I t needs extra seals due to poor mfg tolerances. Do not be intimidated by double action airbrushes, they atomize and spray paint better than single action brushes do. Checkout Don Wheelers excellent site he has reviews on the various airbrushes at this link https://sites.google...nsairbrushtips/   .


Edited by 935k3, 15 September 2013 - 05:21 PM.


#11 Mike Kucaba

Mike Kucaba

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,153 posts
  • Location:Mesa,AZ
  • Full Name:Michael J Kucaba

Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:47 PM

I second that on the double -action. Most have a way to adjust the paint flow function and then all you do is press down on the trigger for the air.

 

Like someone once told me "if you can swim in shallow water, you can swim in deep water too". 



#12 Skip

Skip

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 608 posts
  • Location:Port Orchard, WA
  • Full Name:Skip Ragsdale

Posted 15 September 2013 - 07:43 PM

Get some newsprint paper, practice on it until you master a good spray pattern. Learn to make the adjustments with the mix jet and with the paint itself. Sounds like you may need to take a step back to go forward.

I'm going to go against the advice of getting a double action airbrush until you learn to work with the brush that you've got now. Not trying to sound insulting but did you read the instructions that came with the airbrush? A single action airbrush is a pretty basic piece of equipment, get the air pressure right which your airbrush specific compressor is already doing. Adjust the mixing valve/jet and you should be spraying a pattern that you should be able to work with until you do get a good pattern. Try tightening the mix jet, then bring it back out a half turn until you get paint to spray. Then make adjustments of a quarter turn until you get a good pattern.

How thick / thin is the paint you are trying to spray through the brush, should be the consistency of milk, watery but with color from the pigment. Adjust one thing at a time so that you can zero in on the issue.

Finally, if you really cannot get the airbrush to work contact Badger and tell them what your issue(s) are so that they can advise you on brand and model specific fixes to correct the issues you are experiencing.

Once you get it right you should be spraying noticeably better paint jobs than through aerosol spray cans.

Hope this helps even a little, what you learn with a basic airbrush is going to help you with the next one.

http://badgerairbrus...uction Book.pdf

Edited by Skip, 15 September 2013 - 07:54 PM.


#13 Art Anderson

Art Anderson

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,399 posts

Posted 15 September 2013 - 08:15 PM

I am really trying hard to enjoy this airbrush, but I am coming across a lot of cons vs pros. I have a badger 350, and a paasche 400 r compressor. I think my main issue is with the budget friendly airbrush. It is hard to get right with the thinning of paint, and is a pain in the butt to clean. Would I be better to swap it out to a Iwata Neo, or Eclipse model, or stick it out with a bigger needle in the 350. I also don't like the fact that the paint cup does not have a lid ( I have spilt allot). I have always appreciated the advise of my fellow forum members and look forward to your suggestions here.

A couple of observations here:  First, thinning paint for airbrushing.  A very good way to see what properly thinned paint should look like in your color jar is to spray (gently and softly) paint from a spray can into your color jar.  As it fills up a bit, tilt the jar, notice how the paint "sheets" down the inside of the glass--it flows down the surface of the glass jar in a manner VERY similar to 2% milk--visually that is my standard for properly thinned enamel or lacquer paints for airbrushing on models.  With water-borne acrylics, however, they don't like being thinned nearly that much--use the recommended thinner for these paints, and the paint mfr's suggested thinning ratio and relax, even though you likely won't thin water-borne paints nearly as much as lacquers or oridinary enamels, it will spray just fine.

 

 

 As for how thin is too thin, bear in mind that lacquers can be thinned a lot more than enamels or waterborne acrylics, as lacquer behaves a good bit differently on the surface painted (it starts to dry very quickly once sprayed onto a surface), where enamels are much more prone to "runs and sags" if thinned too much--and waterbased paints?  They have their own quirky behavior if sprayed on using too much thinning,  When I use say, Testors or ModelMaster enamels, I use Kleen Strip  lacquer thinner (available in the paint department at Walmart in quart or gallon cans), as it does a much better job than does enamel thinner for airbrushing, and in the bargain, the lacquer thinner "flashes off" (evaporates much more quickly than does enamel thinner), but I still use the visual effect of how 2% milk "sheets" down the side of a glass tumbler as my guide--if my enamel paint slides/sheets down the inside surface of the color jar just like 2% milk, it's properly thinned.  And no, there really can't be a set "formula" for thinning bottled enamels or even bottled lacquers, such as MCW Automotive Finishes (or Scale Finishes Acrylic Enamels), as no matter how careful the manufacturers or bottlers of these paints are, no two bottles of their product can be automatically expected to be exactly the same consistency (thickness or thin-ness), so I find that my "eyeball chemistry" here works very, very well (I've been doing this for decades now).

 

Next:  Even though the Badger 350 is a "low end" single action, external airbrush, it is, for this type of airbrush, VERY close to equivalent to the Passche H series, and even the venerable Binks Wren--both of these are designed to the same principles as your Badger 350, and an awful lot of winning model car paint jobs have been done with this type of airbrush (including myself--having used only this type of airbrush since my very first Binks Wren acquired in December 1962--I now use Paasche H airbrushes exclusively.

 

 Your Badger 350 (like the Binks Wren and Paasche H) is as simple as simple gets for cleaning, too.  For cleaning this type of airbrush, no matter the brand, the tools and cleaning solvent are very simple, and inexpensive!  For a cleaning solvent when I use enamel or lacquer, I use ordinary lacquer thinner, in a sealable glass jar (I'm using a 3.5oz Aero Gloss Model Airplane Dope Thinner jar that I've had for a good 35 years for this, but a baby food jar (one of the larger sizes) or even a Ball Company Jelly Glass jar will work just as well).  For quick color changes, with either lacquers or enamels, I simply use a plastic eyedropper (which any Walgreen's or CVS Pharmacy stocks--and they are cheap).  I open up the material control all the way (no need to remove this from the airbrush for a quick color change, or if using lacquers or enamels) and simply immerse the tip into the lacquer thinner.  I then draw lacquer thinner up into the eyedropper and push it into the large (where the airbrush jar coupling slips in!) end of the material control, and squirt the thinner through the material control, and let my pressure off the rubber bulb, which pulls more lacquer thinner backward up into the material control.  By palpating (squeezing and releasing the little rubber bulb on the eyedropper, and keeping the nose of my airbrush in the thinner) the eyedropper, this flushes thinner back and forth through the material control, which will flush the thinner out of it more than sufficiently to remove all but the most minute traces of the color.  I pour out all the leftover paint in my color jar into another resealable glass jar (this is where one of those inexpensive jelly glasses with the mason jar type lid on it comes in handy!).  If I am using rattle can (spray can paint), I generally don't save the leftover, as it takes only about a teaspoon worth or even a bit less, to completely paint a model car body with an airbrush.

 

 Any leftover paint is not going to be significant enough to worry about saving.  (however, if I'm mixing my own colors, I then get extra Badger paint storage bottles (Michael's and Hobby Lobby both carry those, BTW), take the Badger color jar off, put the lid from one of the paint storage bottles on it, and use the new glass jar with my airbrush (Badger jars fit all three types of external airbrushes in common use today, BTW).  If I have to clean out a color jar, after pouring out the waste paint, I use cheap paper toweling to wipe out as much of the leftover paint from the jar, then wet some clean paper toweling and use that to wipe out the jar itself until clean.  For cleaning the color jar lid and delivery tube, I use the ModelMaster soft clear plastic paint "droppers" (Hobby Lobby, and most decent hobby shops carry these, in multipacks which are also inexpensive, considering that these plastic paint droppers can be reused again and again for cleaning an airbrush).  I flush the delivery tube in the same manner as I flushed the material control nozzle of the airbrush, and dip the lid into the thinner deep enough to fill that with thinner, which I then wipe out clean and dry with paper toweling.

 

 Total time for me to clean my Paasche H this way?  About 5 minutes, and no disassembly is required.  For cleaning the material control and the metal top of the delivery tube after it's sat and dried (and especially if my last use was with enamels, I remove the material control, and unscrew the outer "tapered" part from the needle inside, and then "ream out" just the needle with an ordinary pipe cleaner soaked in lacquer thinner, finishing that by flushing it with lacquer thinner. Do not use a pipe cleaner on the inside of that tapered body that the needle goes into--push a pipe cleaner too far inside that part, and you can actually split the metal at the thinner, delicate front end, and even the tiniest split can cause your airbrush to hold drops of paint and then "spit" them right onto your paint job!  Same cleaning technique works with the delivery tube (both parts).  Time to do this?  Maybe 10 minutes max.

 

The thinner I use for cleaning up the airbrush (and it gets the call for cleaning brushes too!) does get pretty dirty after awhile, so I simply pour that off into the jar holding my scrap leftover paint, and simply screw the lid back on tightly to keep paint fumes from escaping.  if it gets too dirty, I will pour that out into an empty soda or beer can, wrap that tightly in a couple of those thin plastic bags that supermarkets and convenience stores use in much of the country, label it as to what it is, put it out in my recycle here (a recycling center will separate that out and send it to a hazmat center in most cases for disposal (at any rate, it isn't a lot of material generally, so it really should not cause much of a problem for disposal--depending on your local laws or regulations--but that's true of any solvent you might use for airbrush cleanup).  Of course, water borne acrylic paints clean up with water, just don't pour it down the drain though, but you can let it sit open and the water will evaporate, leaving behind dry solids.

 

I hope this shows that cleaning up your Badger 350 need not be a major surgical operation.  By contrast, the higher-tech, much more delicate internal mix airbrushes, such as the Iwata, Badger 100, 150, and Crescendo or Paasche's similar internal mix airbrushes (either single or dual action) do take a lot more time, and the disassembly and reassembly of some rather delicate and tiny parts.

 

Art



#14 Chris White

Chris White

    MCM Ohana

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,129 posts
  • Location:Toronto, Canada
  • Full Name:Chris White

Posted 21 September 2013 - 11:59 AM

Well just bought the Iwata Revolution airbrush. Nothing like having a problem and throwing money at it :D