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Could really use spray can advice


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#1 JasonFL

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 10:56 PM

I wanted to grab some paint tomorrow but had a few questions I was hoping you guys could answer.

I was really liking all the RustOleum paints for 5 bucks you can get at Walmart. I was thinking about getting the self etching or filler primer, some colors, and clear, all lacquer.

My questions - is it worth it? Do they turn out nice after polishing/buffing or am I better off to go with Krylon, Testors? Do I go with enamel, acrylic, or lacquer?

If anyone could throw up examples that'd be great

I am open to opinions on what to use just remember
*NO expensive stuff, need to get more bang for my buck.
*NO airbrush, need to be spray cans.
* stores near by - Micheals, Walmart, Target, Home Depot, Lowes

Thanks for any help.

#2 charlie8575

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 12:03 AM

I would suggest sticking to Plasti-Kote or Dupli-Color primer for priming needs, as it seems to be a litttle more plastic-friendly, Plasti-Kote especially. Plasti-Kote can be found at CarQuest stores.

 

As to the other stuff, Rust-Oleum seems to use rather hot bases. Test it on sprue before applying to plastic.

 

Airbrushes needn't be expensive or complicated, nor do you necessarily need one. Look into a Preval sprayer. If you can handle a spray-can, you can handle this. The sprayers are about $20. You will need to buy a new air cartridge periodically, but they're a good alternative to airbrushes, especially if you have a color you want to use and don't have available in spray-bomb.

 

Charlie Larkin



#3 1930fordpickup

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 02:50 AM

I would stay away from self etching with plastic. 

Like Charlie said check the all parts stores by you. 



#4 PappyD340

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 03:58 AM

Jason, I use alot of Rustoleum products and have had great success with them, but I use Dupli color primer almost exclusively, and I especially like the rustoleum 2x clear it has a really nice gloss to it, but I agree with Andy I would stay away from the self etching primer, it has acid in it to etch metal so it probably would damage the plastic. Plastikote or Duplicolor primers are your better choices. You can get some plastic spoons and test different variations before you paint your project, that's what I do.  Hope this helps!!  :) 



#5 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 08:10 AM

From personal experience, I've found self-etching automotive primers like SEM to be too hot for most recent kit styrene. They will craze the surface badly, and take a lot of work to repair. On the other hand, they work exceptionally well on some earlier plastics, and flow out very smooth...as on this '60 Johan annual body (black self-etch SEM)

 

DSCN7671.jpg

 

The gray primer I favor is Duplicolor high-build (which will fill minor bodywork imperfections very well) and Duplicolor sandable, which is great if you DON'T need a filling primer. That's gray high-build on the hood, and it will also flow out pretty slick if you learn to shoot it wet enough. This is also Duplicolor high-build on the chassis, and it will slick out nicely, shot wet. It fills minor imperfections, but doesn't obliterate details...as the crisp scribed line shows.

 

DSCN7513.jpg

 

I've had very good results using Rustoleum and Krylon indoor-outdoor for engines and other parts. This is Krylon gloss hunter-green in the foreground. It gives a good gloss for mechanical parts without being too shiny.

 

DSCN7144.jpg

 

I'd stay away from hot paints like Krylon Fusion and similar products unless you TEST, as it has solvents that will often craze plastic and make a real mess.

 

As far as the "spoon test" goes, that's good advice as far as checking COLOR, but the formulation of spoon styrene is NOT NECESSARILY the same as kit plastic. To be safe you MUST test the material you're wanting to use ON THE KIT YOU WANT TO USE IT ON. There are now vary many variations and inconsistencies in kit styrene, so testing on the backside of parts of the specific kit you're working with is mandatory if you want to avoid unpleasant surprises.

 

Just about any big-can household enamel product will polish out to a very fine gloss IF you let it dry long enough, and have enough material on the surface to wetsand out any orange peel or other defects, but there are so many possible combinations of non-model-specific materials, you pretty much have to TEST every one before you commit to painting a model you care about.


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 15 December 2013 - 08:17 AM.


#6 Mike Kucaba

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 08:17 AM

Testor's makes a sprayer that fits on the top of an air can. It allows you to use any paint. It does take some finesse as heating the can is essential, and don't shake the can as propellant will spurt out with your paint. I've used etching primers (Dupont Vari_prime) and never had any plastic damage, even on bare plastic. I don't regard Rustoleum and Krylon as model safe paints. Too many problems reported here and on other forums, yet many people regard it as their go to spray.  As usual, test on spoons AND some plastic from the various kits. There's no way of knowing how much reground plastic is going into models. Good Luck!! 



#7 JasonFL

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 09:02 AM

I appreciate all the advice guys.

I would suggest sticking to Plasti-Kote or Dupli-Color primer for priming needs, as it seems to be a litttle more plastic-friendly, Plasti-Kote especially. Plasti-Kote can be found at CarQuest stores.

As to the other stuff, Rust-Oleum seems to use rather hot bases. Test it on sprue before applying to plastic.

Airbrushes needn't be expensive or complicated, nor do you necessarily need one. Look into a Preval sprayer. If you can handle a spray-can, you can handle this. The sprayers are about $20. You will need to buy a new air cartridge periodically, but they're a good alternative to airbrushes, especially if you have a color you want to use and don't have available in spray-bomb.

Charlie Larkin


Hey Charlie, I used to paint for my dads auto body shop and some other jobs but never worked with an air brush. I looked into the Preval sprayers but if I go that route I'd rather go with an airbrush and do some killer paint schemes. But how involved does it get? Meaning, would I need to buy a decent airbrush, a bunch of different paints, an air source, etc? The only reason I ask is because I have $75 to work with for Xmas but I don't have any other income so I need it to last for a lot projects. That's why this is more of a budget buy. Thanks for any advice.

#8 JasonFL

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 09:27 AM

From personal experience, I've found self-etching automotive primers like SEM to be too hot for most recent kit styrene. They will craze the surface badly, and take a lot of work to repair. On the other hand, they work exceptionally well on some earlier plastics, and flow out very smooth...as on this '60 Johan annual body (black self-etch SEM)
 
DSCN7671.jpg
 
The gray primer I favor is Duplicolor high-build (which will fill minor bodywork imperfections very well) and Duplicolor sandable, which is great if you DON'T need a filling primer. That's gray high-build on the hood, and it will also flow out pretty slick if you learn to shoot it wet enough. This is also Duplicolor high-build on the chassis, and it will slick out nicely, shot wet. It fills minor imperfections, but doesn't obliterate details...as the crisp scribed line shows.
 
DSCN7513.jpg
 
I've had very good results using Rustoleum and Krylon indoor-outdoor for engines and other parts. This is Krylon gloss hunter-green in the foreground. It gives a good gloss for mechanical parts without being too shiny.
 
DSCN7144.jpg
 
I'd stay away from hot paints like Krylon Fusion and similar products unless you TEST, as it has solvents that will often craze plastic and make a real mess.
 
As far as the "spoon test" goes, that's good advice as far as checking COLOR, but the formulation of spoon styrene is NOT NECESSARILY the same as kit plastic. To be safe you MUST test the material you're wanting to use ON THE KIT YOU WANT TO USE IT ON. There are now vary many variations and inconsistencies in kit styrene, so testing on the backside of parts of the specific kit you're working with is mandatory if you want to avoid unpleasant surprises.
 
Just about any big-can household enamel product will polish out to a very fine gloss IF you let it dry long enough, and have enough material on the surface to wetsand out any orange peel or other defects, but there are so many possible combinations of non-model-specific materials, you pretty much have to TEST every one before you commit to painting a model you care about.

You always do some really nice work so that makes me feel better about buying the can stuff. I've been hearing a lot about the duplicolor primer over RustOleums. When you use the type of paint like the one for your motors, do you also use clear on top of them to polish it out cause I wasn't sure if I could polish and buff out the paint without throwing some clear on top? I was also going to go with lacquer instead of the enamel. Thank you for all the advice and help.
Btw. That quote at the bottom of your signature, "work your plan, plan you work". Ever since I've seen that on one of your responses a while back, I live by it. For some reason it has been a huge help to my patients with patients for building. So I thought I'd say thank you for that.

#9 plowboy

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 10:04 AM

Cheap paint is just that. Cheap paint. You're gonna get exactly what you pay for. I currently have a project that I used Krylon paint on and personally, I don't care for it. The Krylon Crystal Clear paint is very prone to orange peel. I gave it a try. But, I'll only use it in a have to case as I did with my current project (couldn't find the exact color I was after). The problem with the larger cans of paint is that unless you have three or four projects that you plan on painting the same color, they're actually a waste of paint and space. I try to avoid painting two models the same color myself. 

 

If you want more paint for your money, get Dupli Color. An 8 oz. can costs around $8. It sprays very nice right out of the can. The next time I'm out, I'm going to buy a can of their clear and try it out. I've been lost since Tamiya stopped sending the TS-13 over here.

 

Personally, I love Tamiya's paints. It's the best spraying paint out of the can that I've ever used. To me, it's always worth the money. Close behind is Model Masters. You just have to make sure to use MM clear over it.

 

As for primer, I use Plasti Kote exclusively. I always get great results with it. Since I began using it, I won't even consider using anything else. You can get a 12 oz. can of it for around $8. Hard to beat that price.



#10 slammedi'am

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 10:06 AM

I use everything from Duplicolor on all my stuff



#11 High octane

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 10:15 AM

I use WHITE primer under ALL colors as the grey primer seems to change the hues of the color one is spraying. I only use grey primer if I'm painting the car black or silver. I find that colors will not "pop" over grey primers, but they will over white primer.



#12 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 10:36 AM

 When you use the type of paint like the one for your motors, do you also use clear on top of them to polish it out cause I wasn't sure if I could polish and buff out the paint without throwing some clear on top?to go with lacquer instead of the enamel. Thank you for all the advice and help.
 

 

I don't use clear over the enamels on engines and other non-body parts...shot right it glosses very nicely. As far as shooting home-store-type enamels for body colors, I've only got a few test bodies I've done over the years, and with enough paint on them, like i said, they'll polish up nicely IF they're dry enough, with no clear. BUT...I let the bodies I've test-shot with the stuff dry for months before I tried to sand and polish it, so you need to test.

 

I don't know about where you are, but the home and hardware stores near me usually only have a VERY limited selection of lacquers...black, white and clear are just about it. The Duplicolor colors at the auto-parts stores are lacquer, but I don't have enough experience with them recently to give advice.

 

I've used Plasticoat primers, as many recommend, and they're great. I haven't been able to get them locally, reliably, for some time...which is why I use Duplicolor now. Plasticoat is better and dries-thru quicker, sands better...if I remember correctly.

 

Shooting big-can enamels, AND Testors enamels, you have to pay attention to the "recoat window" which is always listed on the can. If you ignore it and spray additional coats any-old-time, you risk serious wrinkling of the paint, requiring stripping to correct it. This also happened on 1:1 enamel jobs back in the '40s-'60s, before acrylic enamels came in.

 

. I looked into the Preval sprayers but if I go that route I'd rather go with an airbrush and do some killer paint schemes. But how involved does it get? Meaning, would I need to buy a decent airbrush, a bunch of different paints, an air source, etc? ... I have $75 to work with for Xmas but I don't have any other income so I need it to last for a lot projects. That's why this is more of a budget buy. Thanks for any advice.

 

I've used the PreVals in 1:1 work for touchups in the field, and to spray mold release agents. I used to think they were great, but the last few times the pressure wasn't consistent and that made it impossible to get predictable results.

 

If you DO decide to go airbrush, remember you can decant spray-can paint and air brush it. Sometimes you can find a used airbrush rig with an entry-level airbrush and a decent compressor for pretty cheap...but you gotta hunt.

 

Roger also makes a very good point about the large cans having a LOT of paint for a model, so you better want to do several cars the same color. The stuff in the big cans CAN settle and clog internally so badly while you're waiting to use it that it just won't spray, period. Any money you "saved" by getting a lot of paint in the can gets wasted anyway.

 

Donn Yost's advice for painting bodies with Testors bottle-enamels cut with cheap lacquer thinner is definitely worth looking at if you're even considering an airbrush.


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 15 December 2013 - 10:47 AM.


#13 Modelbuilder Mark

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 12:37 PM

Well, Tamiya primers both white fine and gray are avail from Hobby Lobby, so 40% coupon time there. Also, be sure to check out the VERY bottom rack of paints at Hobby Lobby, as they often have Testor's paints on clearance, including the lacquer primers etc.

 

Otherwise, most all paints from the spray can are just way way too thick for my taste. IF you think airbrushes are too expensive, just keep in mind that you can pick up a decent double action brush for only $15 with free shipping from Amazon etc,.



#14 JasonFL

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 01:05 PM

Well, Tamiya primers both white fine and gray are avail from Hobby Lobby, so 40% coupon time there. Also, be sure to check out the VERY bottom rack of paints at Hobby Lobby, as they often have Testor's paints on clearance, including the lacquer primers etc.
 
Otherwise, most all paints from the spray can are just way way too thick for my taste. IF you think airbrushes are too expensive, just keep in mind that you can pick up a decent double action brush for only $15 with free shipping from Amazon etc,.

Unfortunately no hobby lobby near me, just Michaels. I've been looking on amazon but I don't know enough to make an educated decision. I was looking at the kits so I could also get the compressor. I don't know what's good, whats bad, what paints to use, etc. I herd that Don Yost recommends the Paache H Series so I've been looking for kits based off that. I just want something that can handle all kinds of different projects. Any other advice you have I'm all ears. Thanks.

#15 mnwildpunk

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 01:45 PM

If you have a harbor freight tools near you they sell a nice compressor and a.b. set up. I got mine a few years ago and love it you could check out their online catalog too.

#16 grt222

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 02:27 PM

Well jason, first of all most of the advice you get here in my opinion is correct, these guys are great. As for me i use to be strickley spray cans.I bought airbrush items here and there until i had everything to use it correctly.I bought my airbrush at hobby lobby with the 40% coupon. you can also get the airbrush online just as cheap if you shop around. This place has good deals(http://www.coastairb...m/index.html).I now use both techniques. I personally like the plastikote primers and dupli that you can get at most car parts stores. I stick to mostly hobby type paints like tamiya,testors and model masters. As someone else mentioned i purchased the donn yost DVD's and his technique of cutting the bottle enamels with lacquer thinner works well.
i tried the rustolems once but personally didn't like the results. good luck with what direction you decide to go with.

#17 DPNM

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 03:09 PM

Count me in with the Dupli-Color crowd. I use that and fingernail polish for my finishes. I have airbrushes but spray the primer and clear from the can. Also the color coat if it's the color I want to use.

 

Available at a lot of different auto parts stores.


Edited by DPNM, 15 December 2013 - 03:11 PM.


#18 wagonmaster

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 05:35 PM

I use Dupli-color auto spray can paint. I works well straight out of the can. I however heat the can by holding the can under the hot water faucet. once it gets warm shake it repeat until it doesn't cool off while shaking it. I layed down a beautiful black on my Burt Reynolds edition Trans Am then a Dupli-color gloss clear. came out great.

 

I too use theDupli-color hi build primer. mostly gray as white doesn't hide the color or body work well, IMO. The factory didn't use a certain color primer, they used what ever they had.

 

Tim



#19 charlie8575

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 08:51 PM

Jason,

 

Check your newspaper want-ads, your local shoppers, Craigslist and other local advertising outlets. As Bill noted, you can pick up airbrushes inexpensively, sometimes a complete unit with a compressor, or at least get a compressor for short money.

 

A Badger 250 is about $20 and is a good simple starter airbrush. :I have a Paasche H and like it, just be sure to clean it VERY thoroughly, as it can clog easily.

 

Cutting enamels with lacquer thinner works well, as does de-canted spray paint, which requires little or no thinning. Except with Testors or Tamiya lacquers, which have their own thinners (trust me, nothing else works that I've run across), you can cut everything with hardware store lacquer thinner and use that for cleaning the airbrush. Simply block the nozzle with a paper towel and spray. This back-flushes the brush and does a pretty thorough job of cleaning it. Spray it normally and disassemble and clean prior to chagning color, though, to be safe.

 

Charlie Larkin



#20 Mike Kucaba

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 07:29 AM

Compressors are the least of the expense these days. I recently saw a small pancake type tank unit at HF for 39.99!!

I've also picked up some decent airbrushes (paasche  VL and a badger 100 and  no name for about $40.00 TOTAL!!.)

I disassembled them and cleaned them and they shoot fine. This was at Ultimate Consignment.