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CAT in an Italeri Ford LTL


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#1 Aaronw

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:20 PM

I'm working on the Italeri Ford LTL (U.S. Wrecker kit) and I'm contemplating swapping out the Cummins with the CAT 3406 out of the Revell Peterbilt snap kit as that is the actual engine in the truck I'm replicating.

 

Wondering if anyone has done this or a similar swap that could point out any potential pitfalls. Just familiarity from building this kit before might be helpful.

 

I'm waffling between full accuracy or just doing the easy thing and sticking with the Cummins (if I didn't tell you what was under the hood of the real truck nobody but me would be the wiser). My biggest concern is making sure the air cleaner assembly lines up right. I realize there is a slight size issue with the CAT being 1/25 and the Ford 1/24 but I can't see the difference being that noticeable.

 

Thanks



#2 Old Buckaroo

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:32 PM

I did a similar swap replacing a Detroit V series with a Cummins 6 in a KW coe.  I had to move the front mount lower, trim it so the alternator cleared (made the other side match so one side was not wide and the other thin). And I had to locate the rear mounts farther back . Cut 2 mm off fan shaft to move it closer to engine for radiator clearance.

 

Basically build your engine first before you glue in the front crossmenber/ engine mount . Lots of test fitting and bendable soda straws are your best friend for air and exhaust piping.



#3 Kostas Parchas

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:37 AM

Although I am not familiar with this, I don't see any reason for not doing it.

If it happens in real it can be done in a model. You have the skills and the knowlegde, so go for it.

Don't forget, measure twice - one cut, test fit test fit and test fit.

The smaller scale of the engine it will not be noticable at all and also works in advantage for you, smaller size more space...

Keep us posted.

 

Kostas.



#4 BigBad

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 04:16 PM

Like Nike says: Just do it! That is what makes this hobby fun, you can do whatever you want. Just take the time to look at pictures from the net as reference. If you want to put some plumbing under the hood to detail that engine even more, any chance the Cat might seem a bit small will be mostly hidden. As far as the fit, like Kostas said, it'll probably fit better than the kit Cummins. By the way I had plans for my own LTL kit, I want to install a Detroit 8V92T, so I'll be doing some measurments as well. Enjoy!



#5 Aaronw

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 05:05 PM

Alright, I'll go for it then. The lack of nightmare stories is encouraging.



#6 Old Albion

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:14 AM

Aaron,

 

Check the overall length of the 3406.  Its a long engine longer than the Cummins.  You may need to make some adjustments to the bulkhead and or doghouse.



#7 mistermodel

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 02:11 PM

I put a 3406 in an autocar.A little filing for the front engine mount and it fit perfect.The upper rad hose and drive shaft matched right up as a bonus. I need to finish it sometime, the twin intake plumbing was giving me a few fit issues,but that's my own doing it didn't need to be so complicated.



#8 highway

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:36 PM

Aaron, I agree with what everyone else has said, make sure you check the front mount location and height first and leave that until you have test fitted the engine first. Also, from experience, if you can possibly use the mount for the Cat out of the frame of the Pete, I would suggest you use it. I found out WAY too late the front mount in the Ford kit really only likes to have the Cummapart mounted to it, and when I was going to put mean green Detroit power in mine, I already had the frame painted. I got it to work with the Cummins mount, but it will require some careful gluing to hold it. :lol:

 

HPIM2901.jpg

 

I really wish I would have thought about using the Detroit before I built and painted the frame because I would have used the Detroit mount out of the Pete 377 A/E I stole the engine out of.


Edited by highway, 20 February 2014 - 06:39 PM.


#9 Aaronw

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 02:51 PM

So I suppose the best way to approach this would be to mount the radiator and hood first since there really isn't much adjustment available there. Then temporarily fit the engine as far forward as possible and test fit the cab?

 

Frame is already built but not painted, but I'll take a look at the motor mounts and see what I can do there.



#10 Bgrgbldr

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 08:44 PM

According  to the 1993 Ford Truck Body Builders Layout Book on the LTL the front of the radiator is mounted 14.89 inches forward of the center line of the front axle for both the Cat 3406 and the Cummins N-14. For the 3178 and L-10 the distance is 13.54 inches. Unfortunately they do not show an actual mounting diagram like the did in earlier years. Let me know if you need any other info. These books are odd sized so hard to scan.



#11 Aaronw

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 11:22 AM

According  to the 1993 Ford Truck Body Builders Layout Book on the LTL the front of the radiator is mounted 14.89 inches forward of the center line of the front axle for both the Cat 3406 and the Cummins N-14. For the 3178 and L-10 the distance is 13.54 inches. Unfortunately they do not show an actual mounting diagram like the did in earlier years. Let me know if you need any other info. These books are odd sized so hard to scan.

 

Thanks, it is helpful to know the two engines theoretically sit in the same place.



#12 lapazleo

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 01:50 PM

855 block cummins ie n14 and big cam and 3406 cat are about the same physical size both are simialar shaped the interchange fairly easily should be neat project.



#13 Aaronw

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 04:46 PM

The engine swap will probably be easier than my other plans...

 

When I'm done I'm hoping to resemble this

 

WT35_zpsf017fe17.jpg



#14 bandit1

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 07:21 AM

Take a look at my thread on the 377 i am working on... I did the swap and the truck being a sba needs the hump part of the oil pan in front like how the kit pan is for the detriot... and for a sfa visa versa



#15 Aaronw

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 07:45 AM

Sean, I couldn't find the 377 you are doing, but I have test fit the engine and everything seems to be lining up well.

 

Thanks.



#16 bandit1

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 09:41 AM

Sean, I couldn't find the 377 you are doing, but I have test fit the engine and everything seems to be lining up well.

 

Thanks.

 

No wonder why you couldnt find it... For it was over 3 years ago that i posted an update? :P

 

Here it is:

 

www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=41636&hl=



#17 Old Buckaroo

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 10:14 AM

I looked all over for it also, thanks for posting the thread.

Now 3 years is a long time for no updates.



#18 Truck parts

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 11:40 AM

Thanks guys for the tip on using other engines.



#19 bandit1

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 01:00 PM

I looked all over for it also, thanks for posting the thread.

Now 3 years is a long time for no updates.

 

I know... I need to get my butt back in gear on it... But trying to locate supplies is hard when you cant find them even in hobby shops...



#20 Old Buckaroo

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 05:48 AM

 

I know... I need to get my butt back in gear on it... But trying to locate supplies is hard when you cant find them even in hobby shops...

 

Are you talking Resin and Photoetch ? Cant help you there.

 

If just needing "regular" hobby supplies may I suggest this catalog. Find a RR Hobby shop and see if they have one you can glance through if you have sticker shock.

 

http://www.walthers....uctinfo/913-214

 

Yep that is the price but it is a reference bible. Every bit of Plastruct, Evergreen, K&S and all others.  I get one every 5 years. Prices on items fluctuate but when you have the part number and order online it does not matter.