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Pocher Rolls Sedanca


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#261 Harry P.

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 12:53 PM

About those springs...

The recent questions regarding the PE springs with no arch in them as I installed them led me to contact Marvin at MML. He sent me photos of a finished car assembled with them and they are indeed not arched. Further, the car sit at correct ride height and the front perches protrude as mine do.

In a 'duh' moment which I should have done sooner, I measured the Pocher rubber springs and found that the PE steel front springs are 3mm longer, accounting for the forward angle of the spring perch. The rears, are the same dimension. The front axle is situated in the correct location related to the other chassis points.

So I'm following the advice of the men that made the parts. They haven't been wrong yet. :)

 

Photos of the real deal say otherwise...  ;)



#262 Cato

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 01:20 PM

 

Photos of the real deal say otherwise...  ;)

No question but yet again, another step away from OE in my journey.



#263 Harry P.

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 01:50 PM

No question but yet again, another step away from OE in my journey.

 

Jerry Garcia was right...

 

...what a long, strange trip it's been...  :lol:



#264 Cato

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:50 AM

Wire Wheel Pain...

I'm showing you the 'glamour' shots-the pain shots are too painful right now. :angry:

This is the first completed wheel-3 solid days, one aborted attempt and finally a decent finished product. 80 spokes / 80 spoke nipples and lots of hub and rim parts. I won't give a pain-by-pain description because it's too lengthy. But I will give anyone who cares enough a detailed description of successful techniques off line-it's way too much for this thread. Sadly, I was battling brittle (very old) plastic which snapped on me in the beginning causing a vocabulary demonstration known only to aliens. I quickly learned some tricks to deal with it and will be able to salvage some interior damage without outward evidence.

Shown with the MML tire which is beautiful by itself:

http://108Medium_zps2e78c05e.jpg

Here's the back side. I bought the whitewalls to give me the option if I want to use them facing out. The black side is very handsome and I may use that out and spray the white side black for the inside. Shown with the cream color the wheels will be sprayed:

http://109Medium_zpse25ee9c3.jpg

The tires are supple with a very firm tread area-no fear of collapse. Yes I will sand the parting line when I stop twitching:

http://110Medium_zps8244fd07.jpg

http://111Medium_zpsfd1bffcc.jpg

http://112Medium_zpsffba718f.jpg

I'll post a few construction pics to give the idea. The important point is that it IS doable; you must have Koo's notes and photos (he shows a better way for accurate spokes than the kit way), unlimited patience and a determination to get them right. You must acquire a 'feel' with your tools, soldering iron and of course prep every single wheel part meticulously. Now just 4 more to go.... :blink: (We need a 'crying' icon Harry...)

 

 

 

 



#265 Harry P.

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 12:53 PM

 (We need a 'crying' icon Harry...)

 

I didn't have any problems assembling any of my various Pocher wheels. They go together just like the instructions say. But assembling them is very tedious, and the parts, especially the spoke nipples, are so small that it tends to stress you out... even though the assembly process is actually pretty straightforward. You need a lot of patience to build these wheels. But from your photos, it looks like you did just fine! They are a thing of beauty when assembled.  B)



#266 Cato

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 01:16 PM

Thank you Harry and everything you say is true especially the stress from fumbling. The one wild card was having brittle plastic between the spoke slots on the outer rings. Snapped a couple until I got the idea to use the 'melting method' to heat the spokes into place rather than 'snap' them in as Koo's instruction shows. And Pocher's (jokingly named) instructions don't even tell you that!

Then I had to get the feel of how much heat and how hard to press (not at all) before they sunk into just the right depth.

All my kit's gray plastic is like that. The black plastic of the frame and body has a different composition. It's harder but less brittle. I melted all those screws in and never broke or stripped one (so far :) ).



#267 Harry P.

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 01:23 PM

A lot depends on the particular kit you're dealing with, and how it's been stored over the years. So far, all of my Pocher kits have been ok... I've never had a problem with the brittleness of the wheel rings that you describe, so all I've ever had to do is use a very small screwdriver tip to push the spoke nipples into place... the plastic wheel rings have always given way nicely. But you never know what you get when you buy a 40 year old kit. You also seem to have had issues with the kit springs, which I never had. Must have something to do with how the kit spent its previous life before you bought it.

 

But just think how proud you'll be of the finished model, knowing what you went through!  ;)

 

Edit: Actually, the toughest part of building a Pocher wheel is making sure you put the spoke nipple on the spoke in the correct orientation... the wide flare goes down into the plastic wheel ring. I use a magnifier desk lamp when building my Pocher wheels... I couldn't have done it using only my natural unaided vision! 



#268 Cato

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Posted 28 April 2014 - 01:47 PM


 

But just think how proud you'll be of the finished model, knowing what you went through!  ;)

 

Edit: Actually, the toughest part of building a Pocher wheel is making sure you put the spoke nipple on the spoke in the correct orientation... the wide flare goes down into the plastic wheel ring. I use a magnifier desk lamp when building my Pocher wheels... I couldn't have done it using only my natural unaided vision! 

I'm afraid I'll be proud posthumously... :(

So true about seeing what you're doing with these 1mm parts. I use 5x glasses and an Ott- Lite and it's fine. But changing focal length from the tools a foot away to the workpiece 3" away gives me headaches by the 3rd hour.

Snapping the nipples in would have been fine but I had to use the hot iron which added another dimension of stress. But I've got the feel now and the others should go more quickly.

I've actually got to take another of those backward steps now. The modified steering shaft came back from Marvin and I will assemble it into the steering box, finish it and install into the chassis, Then the steering arm to the front axle.

Then back to wheel fun. :blink:

I still want a 'crying icon!!'.



#269 David G.

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:13 AM

Here's a question:  How is Pocher pronounced?    Is it like Poker, Posher or Poacher?

 

 

Thanks,

 

David G.



#270 Cato

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 03:20 AM

Here's a question:  How is Pocher pronounced?    Is it like Poker, Posher or Poacher?

 

 

Thanks,

 

David G.

Poker. ;)



#271 sjordan2

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 07:55 AM

I would have a hard time trying to decide what to do about the wheels and tires. American customers would often opt for outer whitewalls and polished wires, such as those made in the Springfield factory. AACA purists would say it's okay to have inner-facing whitewalls (though blackwalls would be more typically British) with wheels painted silver, black or body color. I don't think you can go wrong.



#272 Harry P.

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 12:37 PM

Here's a question:  How is Pocher pronounced?

 

FRUS-trat-ing.

 

:lol:



#273 Cato

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:07 PM

 

FRUS-trat-ing.

 

:lol:

:lol: :lol: :blink:



#274 Cato

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:21 PM

This is only a test...

http://113Medium_zpsaa33e533.jpg

Front axle in place. Wheel / tire and fender mocked-up for relationship with each other.

Wheel is correctly centered, ride height very close to what I hoped. Completed weight should settle it a bit more. Everything seems to be playing nice with each other. Will post the axle installation soon.

 

Also gives a ton of incentive to continue down this rabbit hole. It looks gorgeous and big in person-beyond my dreams.

 

I will now happily continue hitting myself in head with this hammer... :blink:



#275 Eric Macleod

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 07:20 AM

This looks fantastic. I encourage further rabbit hole exploration!

 

I know the white wall tires look good (and they do look very good indeed!) but I would like to see the same shot with the black-wall tyre (as the Brits would say) out! Just to see how it looks....

Those wheels though. I have to concede that they spectacular and would be a real shame to cover up, even if it might be more historically accturate to have the covers on them.



#276 Cato

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 07:41 AM

Will try the black side out when i complete the next wheel. Might look very good with the cream colored wheel.

Installing he forward brake rods and connecting the dampers now. Steering box, linkage and column after that. The chassis will be essentially done after that.

Then wheels and engine.



#277 Cato

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 06:06 AM

How to win the dumbazz award...

 

No matter how careful you try to be, you can cross yourself up. Here is the assembled steering box, steering lever and arm, all connected to the steering arm on the front axle.

 

This simple MML bronze arm required modification to the kit steering arm. It changes the mounting of the kit arm from through the top opening to the side, as the 1:1 was located:

http://114Medium_zps0b222533.jpg

To do this, MML has you cut the steering arm and rotate the forward end 90 degrees so it bolts correctly to the front arm. Once cut, you must drill into each half and insert stiff wire then rejoin the halves. Without a Sherline and the brains to use one, I was very apprehensive as to how to do this. I cut the arm using a steel V-block for parallel edges. I marked two lines (90 apart) on the pre-cut side so I could rotate it 90 degrees accurately. This is a top view:

http://115Medium_zpsc32e1c75.jpg

Again from the top, you can see that the forward attach point (right of picture) is turned 90 to the rear one:

http://116Medium_zpsae419520.jpg

Using a .039" drill and clamped square in the block, I took my best shot and drilled about 3/8" deep:

http://117Medium_zps38c5ecac.jpg

I made a .010" styrene shim to make up the kerf from my razor saw to keep the arm the correct length and inserted the wire. Looked straight:

http://118Medium_zps11194214.jpg

Continued below...

 

 



#278 Cato

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 06:27 AM

The moment of truth. Both halves rejoined and mocked-in place to test. Steering box complete, all parts unfinished. The steering arm is concentric which is a miracle considering how I did it:

http://119Medium_zpsb825c2a4.jpg

All finished in black, graphite and a little corrosion:

http://120Medium_zps791eb8af.jpg

The steering box in place seen from the engine compartment side:

http://121Medium_zps7bcb2c95.jpg

All dressed-up and in place:

http://123Medium_zps3e699258.jpg

Seen from the front, the axle steering arm is the stout curved bronze piece. The wheels pivot freely side to side with no rubbing:

http://122Medium_zps7c9d4b10.jpg

So why the dumbazz award??

In the second pic in the previous post you see the two cut halves, with the 'Z' bend going upward. Well...........that bend should be downwards; to clear the shock damper tower. Thankfully everything does clear. But I was so worried about getting a true cut and join, I fell asleep on the direction to join the front end.

I considered making another cut on the arm and turning 180 degrees but decided not to press my luck. And again, yes Harry, you can see all this stuff... :D

That's my dirty little secret; thankfully there are very few of you to laugh at me. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

 

 



#279 David G.

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 03:19 PM

Truly an amazing kit.  Thanks for sharing your work with us.

 

David G.



#280 Cato

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 04:11 PM

Truly an amazing kit.  Thanks for sharing your work with us.

 

David G.

Thank you David. :)