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Pocher Rolls Sedanca


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#21 Harry P.

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:12 PM

WELL GET IT UP HERE!! :angry:

 

I just bought a bunch of 1/16 scale kits. I really am getting into these small kits. Like Chris Walken said on SNL... I got a fever! And the only cure is more cowbell! No, wait, more 1/16 kits!   :lol: 



#22 Cato

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 12:46 PM

Then send it here so I can at least steal--err-observe your ideas. :wacko:



#23 Pocherphile

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 01:09 PM

You can tell by my handle I am a BIG Pocher fan..........I have been addicted to them from the 1st time I opened a box (FIAT) 1975, Frankfurt FRG.  I have over the years lost count of the number of them I have had, lets just say a bunch of'em!  But I too have been bitten again by a different bug.......the 1/16th bug.  The only problem w/Pocher kits......they are huge, hard to display and keep clean unless you have a wall to put that huge display case against, just for them?????

But I have again discovered the wonderful world of 1/16th Old Timers, add as much detail as you want and you can display a whole flock of'em where you would have just 1 Pocher sitting!

As a matter of fact as of today I have added 10 kits to my 1/16th collection, all of them old timers.

Got a Hudson Miniatures 1914 Stutz Bearcat today.......that one was tough to come up with, complete and un-started.

I agree, the smaller ones go alot faster and you are not spending a week putting spokes into a wheel!

Just my 2 cents worth.

Rick B)



#24 Harry P.

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 01:19 PM

Same here, Rick. For the price of one Pocher you can get a boatload of 1/16 scale kits. I've bought about ten different 1/16 kits within the last month. I've made myself a real backlog!

 

But my first love is still Pochers. I have built 6-7, and currently have two different Rolls kits under construction. I have a Sedanca with the chassis complete, seats built, needs the body. I have the "Star of India" that I will be converting into a RR woody... er, "shooting brake."

 

I've built the Fiat, two Alfas, two Mercedes, the Porsche 911 (not a "real" Pocher IMO), and have two RRs under construction. The only one I've never built is a Bugatti. Still looking for one at a price I'm willing to pay. Not going to spend $2500 on one kit.



#25 Cato

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:11 PM

I understand the passion for the smaller stuff you guys have-it's beautiful and everything Rick says is true.

In my case however, I'm  just not a prolific builder like you guys - and especially Harry-are. In fact, this might be the last replica of any scale (and certainly no more 1:1) that I'm able to do.

But I am throwing everything I've got at it, enjoying it and planning up a storm.

When done, (it, not me) I'll build my last glass case and a table to present it on, where I can see it everyday.

That's my wish and goal.



#26 David G.

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 03:24 PM

I'll be watching this one with great interest.

 

David G.



#27 sjordan2

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 05:38 AM

 

I just bought a bunch of 1/16 scale kits. I really am getting into these small kits. Like Chris Walken said on SNL... I got a fever! And the only cure is more cowbell! No, wait, more 1/16 kits!   :lol: 

 

You could put your Pocher experience into Revell's 1/16 Rolls Phantom II Continental and probably come up with the best version of that kit ever. [DO NOT use the "museum" kit -- it has gold-plated parts instead of chrome and klunky wire wheels].



#28 Harry P.

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 06:17 AM

Per Cato's request to keep all the Sedanca-related stuff in this thread... my scratchbuiult Sedanca seats. I used the basic kit seat shells (highly modified, though), created cushions with real foam padding, covered them with a faux-leather material I found at Hobby Lobby that looks perfect for 1/8 scale "leather." The piping is made of a soft rubber "string" that I found in the HL jewelry making aisle... I believe it's meant for stringing beads, but also makes perfect 1/8 scale seat piping. I painted the upholstery a medium gray with acrylic craft paint... it has a subtle sheen to it that looks amazingly like leather. All wood trim is basswood, stained and varnished. The carpeting on the scuff pad areas of the front seats is also material I found at HL and looks amazingly like 1/8 scale carpet. I also carpeted the car's floor with it, and will also do the lower portions of the interior door panels with it. BTW... the rear seat armrests are still to be done... will carve them of basswood and stain/varnish to match the other wood trim.

 

seats1_zpsaf2530dd.jpg

 

seats2_zpsb629b23a.jpg

 

seats4_zpsa4f3bfad.jpg

 

seats3_zps28b3e2ed.jpg



#29 Cato

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:02 AM

Great Harry-thanks. Now to some questions:

You picked a beautiful, simple (relatively) style for your functional seats. I am eyeing the seats in my 1/12 Cord for the style and then fab them in balsa in 1/8.

You covered over the foam in vinyl but have no 'pulls' at the corners of the squabs-great job. Was it difficult when you pulled it tight?

You put acrylic craft paint (sprayed) onto the store vinyl-how was the adhesion and did you prep it any special way? Assume you would not have done that if the material came in your correct color.

The piping is a fantastic find-did you use 'Bondini' to apply it?

The carpet-can you post a snap of it? I'm wondering if my wife can bind the edges on her machine. If not, I don't know how to get the 'real' bound edge... :(

I hope I can find these materials at Michaels as we have no HL out here.



#30 Harry P.

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:39 AM



You picked a beautiful, simple (relatively) style for your functional seats. I am eyeing the seats in my 1/12 Cord for the style and then fab them in balsa in 1/8.

You covered over the foam in vinyl but have no 'pulls' at the corners of the squabs-great job. Was it difficult when you pulled it tight?

 

No, not difficult, because the material is fairly thin and stretchy, so it can be pulled tightly around corners pretty well. I use contact cement... for each cushion I glue one of the four edges down to the basswood backer piece, then place the foam padding onto the backer piece, pull the material tightly around the foam padding and lock down the opposite side of the material onto the backer piece... then pull tightly across the cushion at 90 degrees and lock down the remaining two sides. Before I really mash down the stuff to get the full effect of the contact cement, I take tweezers and pull the corners tight. Once I have all the wrinkles and folds off the face side, I push everything down tight onto the basswood backer. Then I flow CA over the backside to really lock everything in place, and use an X-acto to shave down the bumps and overlaps on the back side, so the cushion will install flat and tight to the base.

 

You put acrylic craft paint (sprayed) onto the store vinyl-how was the adhesion and did you prep it any special way? Assume you would not have done that if the material came in your correct color.

 

Right, the material can be used as is, but I wanted a different color. Just simply brush painted acrylic craft paint, no prep. The acrylic shows zero brush marks when dry. Because I was going from the dark brown to light gray, it took 2-3 coats, but even at that the grain still shows through. Adhesion seems fine, nothing has flaked or peeled off, even after pushing down on the cushions and playing with the "squishiness."  :D 

 

The piping is a fantastic find-did you use 'Bondini' to apply it?

 

I used CA. I cut a piece slightly longer than what I need to go around all four sides of the cushion... I glue down the one end centered on one of the four cushion sides, then pull it straight and glue down a small section, pull straight and glue down another section, etc. using tiny dabs of CA. When I come to a corner I glue it down up to the corner, then turn the corner and add a tiny dab just past the corner. That holds it to shape around the corner. One I have circled the entire cushion, I carefully flow CA between the cushion and the piping to make sure the piping is glued to the cushion with no gaps in the glue anywhere. I intentionally do NOT apply it perfectly straight, as it would have slight irregularities in real life, especially after the cushions had been used for any length of time. The piping wouldn't be arrow-straight, so mine isn't either.

 

The carpet-can you post a snap of it? I'm wondering if my wife can bind the edges on her machine. If not, I don't know how to get the 'real' bound edge... :(

I hope I can find these materials at Michaels as we have no HL out here.

 

This is the stuff I use for all my upholstered seats. Don't know what it's called, I just saw it at the store and knew that it would work. The face of it is some sort of fairly stretchy vinyl with a grain that makes terrific 1/8 scale "leather." It's fused to a thin (1/16 inch?) black fabric backing that's sort of "cushy." However, I always pull the backing off and use only the surface vinyl "skin" of the material...

 

upholstery_zps40952a55.jpg

 

And this the "carpet." It's a velour (is that the right word?) type of fabric that looks just like 1/8 scale carpeting. The store just happened to have the exact right color I wanted for my Rolls interior. The photo came out a bit bright, the real stuff is a darker maroon, but that's irrelevant to your question...

 

carpet_zps1f951071.jpg

 

I didn't bind the edges by sewing... but by running a thin bead of white glue along the edges.



#31 sjordan2

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:48 AM

Do you have more details on the velour carpeting? It looks perfect for my 1/16 Mercedes SS, which so far works very well with the "faux velvet" I found in Christmas ribbon.



#32 Harry P.

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:54 AM

Do you have more details on the velour carpeting? It looks perfect for my 1/16 Mercedes SS, which so far works very well with the "faux velvet" I found in Christmas ribbon.

 

No, sorry. I just found it in the sewing/fabric section of Hobby Lobby. I knew the look I was after, and when I saw this I knew it's what I wanted. I don't know the name of it (or if it even has a specific name), but I think it's meant to be used as upholstery material on sofas and chairs. It's a pretty hefty fabric with that coarse canvas-like backing... looks to be pretty heavy duty.



#33 Cato

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 10:54 AM

Golden info for builders-thanks for sharing Harry.

Do drop in with tips, criticism and general RR discussion as time permits. Photos always welcome. :)



#34 Cato

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:02 PM

No flashy pictures to show like that show-off Harry ( :rolleyes: ) but some substantial progress today.

Namely a large and expensive order at Model Motorcars for their jewel-like upgrades. It's easy to go nuts on their website but I did use some restraint. Should be here early next week.

In the meantime, more boring clean-up and fitting stuff. And a couple of hours making glued-on 'feet' from sprue to start priming and painting chassis parts. Looks like a forest of crossmembers and exhaust parts stuck in styrofoam. Haven't figured the system for the 25" long chassis rails yet but wheels are turning.. Hoping the garage will get toasty with weather in the 40's tomorrow.

You really must plan ahead and be flexible with your thinking with a Pocher like this. I surmise the Benz would be even more of a cluster-flub. :blink: I bow to you that have built them....



#35 Cato

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 06:29 AM

The deeper I get into this thing, the more I realize there are some basic things about Pochers which first or second-timers (like me) should understand. It would help to make a decision to go or no-go on a project of this complexity.

Pocher has NOT done a bolt-by-bolt presentation of the subject. All the major shapes and assemblies are beautifully done, but for the sake of engineering, they generalized some of the way parts are fastened or mounted. Mostly in unseen or hard to see areas when it's all on its feet.

Examples of this are the hanger brackets, the crossmember into the frame rails, the plumbing and wiring.

Being a detail freak I soon realized you should choose your path first. Those wanting a perfect replica of the chassis, should build a chassis only model (with engine) so the coach does not obscure all the scratchbuilt stuff you added. And you'd need extensive research for that-but it's out there for the most part. I have seen some chassis-only models which are mind-bending and regretted I'm nowhere near that skill level.

So I chose a modified path- adding improved visual details where you can see it with a closed model. Model Motorcars is my choice for those aftermarket parts. A mirror on the model base will adequately display your extra work.

Among the parts I'm adding are; PE stainless leaf springs and hangers, their new improved tires, steering and brake arms, levers, and clevises, Also some nuts and bolts for the details and spares.

I've decided on building the stock Pocher wheels instead of buying the new wires from MM-although they are also beautiful. I made the decision to have painted wires and the multi-part Pocher wheels look much better (IMO) than left bright. Also saves $200 that way.

So I guess I'm saying you've got to stay a few steps ahead of the process and study everything out there on these cars-to avoid unexpected disappointments and expensive mistakes. Plan carefully what you want your final car to look like long before you pick up the tools (and you'll need a ton of those too) paint and glue.

On to the photos of the meager progress. But it's going faster with better painting weather.

The plastic is thick and somewhat brittle after 30+ years. Thankfully I've seen no warps so far and got a sturdy, square chassis in mock-up.  I'm using a Dremel wheel, sprue cutters and mostly sanding with 50 grit Emory (believe it or not) and 220 for the clean up. That's all fine for the chassis but not the gleaming parts to come later.

Unless you've built a few of these, don't tackle your first without Paul Koo's lifesaving build CD. Jus' sayin'...

These are examples of the endless flash, stubs, sinks and holes that need expanding or you break screws. They take a long time to get prepped:

http://7Medium_zps1695a6c8.jpg

8Medium_zps42073937.jpg

More in the next post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#36 Cato

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 06:52 AM

An old friend of mine is Micro-Balloons filler, from my RC flying days. Finer than talc it's seen here on the leaf spring mount on the chassis. I fill the gap with a neat bead of CA, then sprinkle on some MB (it's ultra fine and doesn't take much. In a minute it's cured and I shake off the excess, and file and sand (easily) to a neat, strong fillet.

The 'X' marks a sink in the plastic to be filled soon with Bondo-there are a few such places:

http://13Medium_zpsfc963fbf.jpg

http://12Medium_zpsd3ea2577.jpg

The gas tank is one of those compromised areas Pocher left that I didn't want to live with. It's big, noticeable and comes in two halves. I didn't want the seam. So I beveled and trued the edges, and made two side templates. I did so because it would be difficult to sand filler inside those flanges. Using tape then cutting .005 styrene, gives me nice flat tank sides. I joined the halves with liquid glue and clamped overnight. The bevels make it easy to get a nice Bondo fill on the seams with feathered edges,

Just before closing however, I epoxied-in 3, 7/16" bolts to the tank bottom. I like adding weight as I've said earlier and weight, low and back here, helps balance the natural weight of the engine up front. Might even add some sand to the oil pan. Makes for a nice 'planted' model-not so 'fragile' feeling.

http://10Medium_zps3e31e86c.jpg

11Medium_zpsfe09df70.jpg

Finally, here the 'sprue farm' of crossmembers and exhaust pipes after priming with Tamiya rattle can gray:

http://14Medium_zps46c78193.jpg

Questions or comments welcomed. ;)

 

 

 

 



#37 Pocherphile

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 07:30 AM

Just a thought, don't over do the added weight........the Roll's is already a big heavy car when completed, too much weight is not good for the suspension.....of course I noticed you already said you have ordered from MMC.com and I am sure you sprung for the cast front axle.  You will be surprised @ what this puppy will weigh when done.  I have and still do add support for my large Pocher kits to set on to take the stress of off the frame, wheels and suspension.  Over time w/o this, you will see the car start to settle in a un-natural stance!

Like what you are doing and the added effort will pay off in the end, just take your time and enjoy the complexty of the build.  Pochers are not for everyone, but if mastered, I do not believe there is another kit to match'em........ <_<

Rick B)



#38 Cato

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 07:49 AM

Golden words to live by-thanks Rick. Will mind that carefully.



#39 Pocherphile

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 08:24 AM

Don't know if they are golden......but I do hope they help.  There are certain things from Model Motorcars that to build a Rolls to last and pass on are very much necessary..........the set of SS Leaf Springs, I would not even think twice about pruchasing a set of these. I am in noway telling you what to spend your hard earned on, but believe me, I understand the price is in the clouds, but the results and what they do for the stability of the model is worth it.  I have seen many of these kits (Rolls) after built, over time sag @ the leaf springs that come in the kit.

Bronze front axel..........another piece that replaces a weak part of the kit.

Now as for the rest, thats up in the air and how much your wallet can take.

I would not go for the wheel sets, but I would spring for the new type tires they are making..........but they are not really needed other than ease of getting onto the rims and I have seen them split (kit tires) as you try to install them.

And if you have not already done so, one of the best ref books on a Pocher RR, buy the MMC's Build Manual f/a RR........much info in this little booklet for the price.

Rick B)



#40 Cato

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 08:48 AM

  There are certain things from Model Motorcars that to build a Rolls to last and pass on are very much necessary..........the set of SS Leaf Springs,

 

I would not go for the wheel sets, but I would spring for the new type tires they are making..........but they are not really needed other than ease of getting onto the rims and I have seen them split (kit tires) as you try to install them.

As I said above, I happily thought to buy what you suggest: The springs and tires.  Did not think the axle as critical as you said but am strongly reconsidering. Don't want wonky, knock-knees in time.

My wallet was sent to ICU for treatment... :blink: