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Could you make a business case for upcoming new kit subjects?


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#41 Greg Myers

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 03:54 PM

Read that OP again Andy. Take your time, it's about making a business case not a fantasy wish. Ain't no what ifs to it. ;) a few just got side tracked on the Tucker thing. :o

 

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Edited by Greg Myers, 02 May 2014 - 03:57 PM.


#42 Greg Myers

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 04:01 PM

My apologies if I'm rehashing a topic that's already been covered. Well, I know it's KIND OF been covered before, but I don't recall the emphasis on "practicality", if you will. If that was Luc's angle, we'll just say that great minds think alike! ;)

Not a problem. I really like the way you presented this. I usually cringe when everyone drags out the "Car Grama used to drive" and we end up with a list of stuff that no one would buy.  :) The Revell Of Germany Poll ( ROG Poll http://www.modelcars...showtopic=88305 ) is a good / bad example of this :rolleyes: 


Edited by Greg Myers, 02 May 2014 - 04:04 PM.


#43 Tom Geiger

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 04:41 PM

My apologies if I'm rehashing a topic that's already been covered. Well, I know it's KIND OF been covered before, but I don't recall the emphasis on "practicality", if you will. If that was Luc's angle, we'll just say that great minds think alike! ;)

 

No, I think your thread is valid and the game has changed a bit since Luke did the $25,000 kit challenge. BTW, I won it twice with a 1965 Barracuda and the split window VW.  Funny thing is that nobody has ever done a split VW in 1/24 or 1/25 ever!

 

The game today is that nobody can turn a profit off a tool in a single run of kits.  The cost of tooling vs the small runs the market can absorb today make that a necessity.  I've recently been told they need a minimum of four different potential kit releases to be viable.

 

Look at the Moebius strategy for the Hudson tool...   Up front they released a 1953 Replica stock car, followed by a 1952 Convertable Replica stock car.  Then they got into the old Nascar cars.... 1952 and 1953 Marshall Teague cars, 1952 Tim Flock car. That's five so far, and with the announced two body styles of the 1954s, bet your bippie that those will be followed with race versions as well. Figure we will see at least 10 versions.  And it's a given that guys will do kit bashes for 1952 stock coupes and 1953 convertibles.  12 possible versions so far.

 

Revell's recent strategy has been to invest in new tools of  timeless classics that you will build over and over again. The world was clammering for a good 1932 Ford and they responded.  So far we've had a 3 and 5 window coupe, a 2 door sedan, Highboy convertible in both standard and Good Guys boxes and now the Rat Roaster/ Gearz version. That's six versions so far and the possibilities are endless. Never mind that this kit's chassis will be used under countless other bodies, both plastic and resin.  Note that this isn't a car that will go out of style.  We all know tooling can last 50 years, so there's no reason why this kit won't sell forever.  

 

Revell has also done the Tri-Five Chevys, 1957 Ford, 1970 Nova to name a few. We've already seen the '57 Ford as the Custom (wisely not competing head on with the classic AMT Fairlane 500), the Police version and Fireball Roberts stock car. People are asking for a new Ranchero (to put Revell's classic but tired kit out to pasture) and a Ranch Wagon.  I'm putting money on some '58s as well.    No end to what they can do off this basic chassis!   And I won't even get into the Chevys.

 

So as you think what you would tool up, think in this kind of strategy.  No Tuckers or other one offs.  The companies are realizing that the Baby Boomers are retiring and will be taking up hobbies and spending more time and money in pastimes.  So we should see a renaissance over the next 10-20 years.

 

And the hobby has taken interesting turns.  Someone recently said, "Who would have thought we'd have a Hudson shelf in our collections?"   We do live in interesting times!



#44 ToyLvr

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 05:00 PM

A 64 Chevelle, could be made from the existing 65 Z-16/ 66 El Camino/ wagon tooling. A 65 Malibu/ SS, 66 hardtop, & 67 Chevelles, could also be done, with the same chassis.


Would LOVE to see a decent kit of a '64 Chevelle. The original curbside AMT doesn't quite cut it, and they're so rare that the price is outrageous (if you can find one).

#45 62rebel

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 05:06 PM

look how many mid-70's/early 80's econo-box kits have been popping up in the Workbench threads... look how well modern tuner/drift cars do, and look at the artistry that is embodied in the Bombas and lowriders..... Revell hit one out of the park with their 59-66 series of Impalas..... RC2/Ertl did the same with the '62 Catalina.... the recent although mistake-ridden LX Mustang is a big hit; seems like more than enough builders can excuse the short roof..... Moebius is due to release those long-awaited F series trucks soon; with a little luck maybe they'll do some accurate GMC/Chevy and Dodge trucks so we don't have to correct a raft of errors to build one from what is presently offered.

 

accurizing presently offered kits would me my target; correcting flaws and adding optional trim levels if possible, or restoring parts like the IROC Camaros and Firebirds had. correcting serious flaws in NEW kits as well, such as the afore-mentioned Mustang roof or grossly misshapen quarter window on the new Duster, or cleaning up misaligned seams......

 

one key item that's been recently noted is that the makers have been showing potential buyers the stuff in the box more accurately... parents don't want to have a kid open a box and be overwhelmed by a hundred frail and easily lost parts if that kid doesn't have a lot of experience building.... those "promo style" kits STILL have a place and it's squarely in the lower end of the learning curve for beginners to get some nice looking completions done. experienced builders can hack 'em up and do exceptional stuff with them, but beginners need some successful completions to get their confidence up for tackling say a Revell Mysterion...



#46 berr13

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 05:53 PM

How about a 1963 Falcon Sprint?  It's an early attempt at the muscle car idea with appealing styling, and would make a great box stock kit.  A follow up could be the Monte Carlo rally cars (they're so hip even Jay Leno has one), and NHRA stockers, I suppose.  In my perfect world (an imaginary one, for sure), this kit would transform in time to a convertible then a Squire wagon.  Oooooh....



#47 Robberbaron

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 07:56 PM

Well said, Tom.

My original thought process was focused on kit subjects that currently aren't available at all, but so many people mentioned a modern, full-detail 1/25 first generation Mustang. That got me thinking of some of the other cars that are currently available, but only as sub-par kits. First and foremost in my mind is the lousy selection of 2nd generation (68 to 72) Chevelle kits. For the 1970 Chevelle, what many people consider one of the apex 1:1 muscle cars, we have the old 1/24 Monogram with the "something's not quite right here" front end, the backdated 1/25 AMT kit which is 44 years old, and the fairly new Revell 1/25 snap kit, which I'm told is actually quite accurate proportionally, but a lot of folks have no interest in it since it's a curbside snapper.

For other year 2nd generation Chevelles, we also have the inbred-looking 72 Chevelle that RC2 created based off their 1970 Chevelle, which itself was backdated from the original (decent looking) 72 annual. Rounding out the mix is the old pair of AMT 69 Chevelles, both the hardtop and the convertible. Again we're talking about 45 year-old tooling, but these are even worse than the 70, since there's a laundry list of accuracy problems with the bodies of these kits, especially the butchered, asymmetrical taillights. (I support a lot of what Round 2 has been doing with their recent releases, but they should be ashamed for trotting out that 69 convertible without fixing that bumper/taillight assembly). We haven't seen a styrene 68 or 71 Chevelle available since the 1:1 cars were new.

Imagine having a new, modern, full detail 70 Chevelle LS-6. I think that would rank right up there with the new Revell 70 Cuda. Mechanically and chassis-wise, all the 68 to 72 Chevelles are pretty much identical appearance-wise (a 454 block looks the same as a 402, which looks the same as a 396). I believe the interior remained pretty much unchanged from 70 through 72. So it would be possible to field a whole roster of Chevelles with just body/wheel changes, plus new interiors for the 68 and 69.

If you really want to run with this idea, you could even use the basic chassis for B-O-P variations (new 70 GTO Judge anyone?)

#48 ChrisBcritter

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:29 PM

I wonder if AMT could pull off a '51 Ford based on their dated but decently accurate '49-'50 tooling? Particularly since a Victoria hardtop and convertible could use the same body, windshield and vent windows. Maybe Revell should take a crack at this, with detail like the '49 Olds coupe and a lot of period custom goodies. Shoebox Fords have never gone out of style; about the only limiting factor would be that they weren't too famous for racing.



#49 Luc Janssens

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 10:40 PM

 

No, I think your thread is valid and the game has changed a bit since Luke did the $25,000 kit challenge. BTW, I won it twice with a 1965 Barracuda and the split window VW.  Funny thing is that nobody has ever done a split VW in 1/24 or 1/25 ever!

 

The game today is that nobody can turn a profit off a tool in a single run of kits.  The cost of tooling vs the small runs the market can absorb today make that a necessity.  I've recently been told they need a minimum of four different potential kit releases to be viable.

Hey Tom, I even re-posted these on the Revell Germany site...

You're absolutely right about designing siblings from the get go too, the funny thing is one of the great kit designers was promoting that business case way before the 2000s, also sharing r&d with die-cast, sadly he couldn't sell the idea, because at that point in time money came in by the truck loads and when the bottom fell out, well.....they threw out the baby with the bath water...

 

#50 alan barton

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 01:58 AM

Here's one that has been so ignored I just don't get it.  Nearly every significant pre-war Ford has been kitted in one form or another but the Chevies not so much.  Go to any street rod event and the number one most popular Chevy by a country mile is the '34 Chevy.  Ever seen a model of one?  O.K, there is a deranged, confused 1/43rd scale sedan delivery by a European diecast company and a cheap and cheerful rip-off of same in the form of a plastic R/C car. 

 

1/18th diecast?  Nope 

1/25th plastic?  Nope. 

1/43rd resin?  Nope 

1/64th diecast?  Nope.

 Anyone ever seen another one?  Nope, not me!

 

With the Chevies, no one body style seems to be more overwhelmingly popular than another.  Five window coupe, two door sedan, roadster, sedan delivery, they are all rather popular, both here in Australia and the USA and Canada.  They are obviously popular enough for fibreglass manufacturers to make them.  So Revell and AMT and Moebius have the chance to be first on the block with a car that has never been kitted but has a ton of fans.  The approach that Revell took with their "32 Fords would be a perfect match.  Police car guys would probably kit bash an AMT 37 Chevy six in for a replica stock patrol car.  34 Chevy rods often have relatively stock front and rear suspensions so conversion to factory stock would not be anywhere near as complicated as the equivalent Fords with all their street rod industry components.

 

So Revell and AMT and Moebius have the chance to be first on the block with a car that has never been kitted but has a ton of fans.  Model builders would like them because they would be different.

Plus thousands of 1:1 owners would be able, for the first time, to have a model of their ride for the TV or the bookshelf or the office desk.  A natural tie in for another Goodguys release. 

 

Sounds like a business plan to me!

 

Cheers

Alan



#51 Jeff Johnston

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 03:08 AM

Bill is correct these aren't '32 Fords. Being Model A Fords with their straight A and B pillars one couldn't ask for an easier body to chop or channel. Jeff you need to do your home work and look on the H.A.M.B. site for some great 1:1 tutorials as well as some of the dedicated Rod magazines. Man it don't get any more basic than this. When in doubt chop it.

 

 

 

Well I'm not exactly an inexperienced model builder and I can tell you that I've botched this twice...  The fact that they are not 32s is not important.  What I mean to suggest is that it'd be nice to have a kit of this era that's already chopped and channeled.  The chopped 49 was very successful, and I'm sure Revell is smart enough to find the right balance of chopping and channeling for most of us.  

 

As far as a Tucker.  My opinion, for what little its worth, is that its an ugly car that 90% of people buying models would not buy.   I  get why some folks would want to build it, and also why most wouldn't.  



#52 1930fordpickup

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 03:43 AM

Greg read my first post on the second page.



#53 Tom Geiger

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 04:12 AM

Tucker has been done both in resin and die cast. A few seasons ago I had a summer intern named Tucker. He had never heard of the car but I got him into the history and he thought the whole thing was cool. I got him the die cast as a parting gift.

A Tucker would be a disaster as a new kit, but it would be pretty cool to get that helicopter engine on scale!

#54 Danno

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 04:30 AM

DSCF0460-vi.jpg

 

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#55 Jeff Johnston

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 04:41 AM

I have to agree on the Mustang coupe.  64/66 or 67/68 I'd take.   My bet is that the 64/66 probably has more options and appeal (though I prefer the 67).  The AMT kit really is dated.  I mean, Revell is doing the 67 Camaro where the old AMT still exists...  So why not the Mustang ?  Makes sense to me. 



#56 Greg Myers

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 04:43 AM

Greg read my first post on the second page.

Yep I see a  possibility here. 1957-dodge-d-100-sweptside.jpg



#57 tim boyd

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 05:08 AM

Chopped and Channeled 32 hot Rod.  Think of all the variations of body styles you could release.  Hood, no hood, copue, sedan, convertible....  Plus the chassis an body would be already chopped and channeled.  Kind of like they did with the 49 Merc.  I tried and failed to shop an AMT 49...  Revell solved that issue.  I also failed at chopping and channeling an AMT switchers kit.   I bet I'm not alone either...  Build it dirty.  Build it shiny....  I can see at least 5 releases of this in different variations.  

 

 

a9e33869724f3b1a3ca67ffefe846b3b.jpgtumblr_lq6t5e6BGb1qzq4jto1_500.jpg

Jeff...those are actually an early ('28/'29) Model A on the left, and a late ('30/'31) Model A on the right, but I fully agree with you, these would make excellent kit topics and particularly the chopped and channelled '31 A Coupe on the right is about THE hottest subject in the 1/1 scale Hot Rod world right now.  

 

I just finished a model build very similar to the one of the right, using the new Replicas and Miniatures body from Norm Veber, and I was extremely pleased with how it turned out.  

 

TIM    


Edited by tim boyd, 03 May 2014 - 05:10 AM.


#58 tim boyd

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 05:20 AM

  Go to any street rod event and the number one most popular Chevy by a country mile is the '34 Chevy.  Ever seen a model of one?  

Cheers

Alan

 

Alan, Cheers  yourself, mate!  

 

Fully agree with you on a '34 Chevy series, although from my point of view, I would be happy with anything from a '33-36 model year vintage, Master or DeLuxe series.      

 

I heard a rumor that a kit topic something like this might have been under possible consideration at one point, but that was several years ago and I don't recall where I heard it (it wasn't directly from the model companies, that's for sure, because if it was, I couldn't be mentioning it here!), and I can't remember to what company (if any) the possible development was attributed, either.  

 

A few years back I would have said "no way ever on this face of this earth", but what with chopped '49 Merc and early 50's Hudson kits having been developed and selling successfully, these days a more topical statement might be "Never say never".  

 

TIM 


Edited by tim boyd, 03 May 2014 - 06:03 AM.


#59 tim boyd

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 05:24 AM

Well said, Tom.

Imagine having a new, modern, full detail 70 Chevelle LS-6. I think that would rank right up there with the new Revell 70 Cuda. Mechanically and chassis-wise, all the 68 to 72 Chevelles are pretty much identical appearance-wise (a 454 block looks the same as a 402, which looks the same as a 396). I believe the interior remained pretty much unchanged from 70 through 72. So it would be possible to field a whole roster of Chevelles with just body/wheel changes, plus new interiors for the 68 and 69.

If you really want to run with this idea, you could even use the basic chassis for B-O-P variations (new 70 GTO Judge anyone?)

 

Robert...right on, man!  Love that '70 LS6, and would also love to see it as an El Camino (ergo my article in the latest Model Cars magazine).  

 

Not to mention that '70 GTO Judge convertible you suggest, which would also need to include the first-ever in 1/25th scale correct Ram Air IV engine as well.  That one is at the top of my personal "new muscle car model kit list" right at the moment, now that the '70 'cuda has made it to the market ...

 

TIM  


Edited by tim boyd, 03 May 2014 - 05:33 AM.


#60 Luc Janssens

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 05:34 AM

 

Robert...right on, man!  Love that '70 LS6, and would also love to see it as an El Camino (ergo my article in the latest Model Cars magazine).  

 

Not to mention that '70 GTO Judge convertible you suggest, which would also need to include the first-ever in 1/25th scale correct Ram Air IV engine as well.  That one is at the top of my new muscle car mode kit list right at the moment now that the '70 'cuda has made it to the market ...

 

TIM  

 

 

Not exact the same vehicle but one of it's possible siblings...

http://ideas.revell....deas/item/2630/

Please feel free to share your thoughts and or ad comments Tim & Robert.