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looking for exotic motor/chassis combo - need opinion...


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#1 tubbs

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 04:50 AM

I am looking for a very nicely detailed import engine/trans combo, something exotic to put into a mid 60's style big boat American car for a custom build. my idea is to take, say a Ferrari motor and trans axle, separate the 2 and move the motor into the front engine bay, connect the 2 by a drive shaft and use the suspension parts. 

 

is this feasible?

 

I don't see why not, but I want it to work, I am by no means a rivet counter, but I like my builds to be believable. I was even thinking of an indy style motor..... 

 

which kit would be a good choice to go after. I build strictly American cars and stick to the basic kit manufacturers (Revell, AMT, MPC, Monogram). I know nothing about the Japanese kits or any other ones. I do not need a whole kit, just chassis, motor and transaxle. I know these kits can get expensive and is it worth it to post something in the wanted section? I have stuff to trade, but no foreign or exotic stuff. i think i am searching for a needle in a haystack.

 

thanks in advance for any help or suggestions,

Tubbs



#2 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 05:43 AM

Many front-engined Ferraris already have a rear-mounted gearbox and diff ("transaxle") so you'd be ahead of the game by starting with something that's laid out like you want in the first place. That, of course, avoids much scale engineering.

 

For instance, i have a full-detail Italeri Ferrari 365 GTB Daytona coupe on the shelf, with a very nice chassis that would be an easy stretch to accommodate a big American body shell.

 

I'm sure there are many modelers on here who have other recommendations.


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 06 May 2014 - 05:55 AM.


#3 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 05:55 AM

 ...my idea is to take... a motor and trans axle, separate the 2 and move the motor into the front engine bay, connect the 2 by a drive shaft and use the suspension parts. 

 

is this feasible?

 

I don't see why not, but I want it to work, I am by no means a rivet counter, but I like my builds to be believable. I was even thinking of an indy style motor..... 

 

 

And yes, that's entirely feasible. The real Porsche 944, for instance, uses a transaxle designed originally to be mounted directly to an engine, and places it in the rear of the car, connected by a driveshaft running in a torque tube.

 

I'm currently designing a 1:1 hot-rod that uses a Datsun 240Z engine in front, and the Porsche 944 Turbo gearbox in the rear of the car. All it requires is careful measuring and some custom machine work in full scale. In a model, it only requires an understanding of the function of the components to get something that COULD work in reality.



#4 Exotics_Builder

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 05:56 AM

Many front-engined Ferraris already have a rear-mounted gearbox and diff ("transaxle") so you'd be ahead of the game by starting with something that's laid out like you want in the first place. That, of course, avoids much scale engineering.

 

For instance, i have a full-detail Italeri Ferrari 365 GTB Daytona coupe on the shelf, with a very nice chassis that would be an easy stretch to accommodate a big American body shell.

 

I'm sure there are many modelers on here who have other recommendations.

 

As stated above.  But, if you are adapting to American "iron", you'll need to consider adapting the transaxle (which are almost always independent rear) to a solid axle or add a full independent suspension as well. 

 

The Revell Ferrari California (8-cylinder engine) or 599 GTB (12 cylinder) would be good starting points if you want a modern engine.  If you want to be more period focused, the 365 GTB would be a good choice.  Beware that a lot of front engine exotic kits with transaxles have simplified suspensions since they have enclosed bottoms for aerodynamic purposes.

 

I think it would be helpful to detail out a little more about what you are trying to accomplish.


Edited by Exotics_Builder, 06 May 2014 - 05:57 AM.


#5 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 06:07 AM

 

As stated above.  But, if you are adapting to American "iron", you'll need to consider adapting the transaxle (which are almost always independent rear) to a solid axle or add a full independent suspension as well. 

 

 

That's why I suggested using the complete chassis from the Daytona, instead of getting into all the fiddly mess of converting a US chassis. Also, making a "solid axle" out of a "transaxle" would in reality create something with MASSIVE unsprung weight. Not good at all in a real car.

 

Using the rear chassis of something US that already has IRS, like a Mustang variant or a recent Mopar product would allow the transaxle to be used in place of the original diff, but it's a LOT more work than just using a complete front-engined Ferrari donor chassis and simply lengthening it.

 

The recent Revell Ferrari 575 Superamerica is front-engined, appears to have a full-detail chassis, and is available on ebay currently for about $18 plus $7 shipping.

 

The Revell Ferrari 612, also front-engined, appears to have a full-detail chassis as well, and is available for similar money.

 

612 chassis tree with suspension. Transaxle at upper left.  818-7780.jpg


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 06 May 2014 - 06:21 AM.


#6 tubbs

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 07:06 AM

I appreciate the help and the quick responses. this started as just a thought as I was looking for something and came across a glue bomb of this

 

no laughing....

 

seriously..... 

 

probably been done already

 

Attached File  1966-Oldsmobile-Toronado.jpg   38.02KB   0 downloads

 

I know Leno has his twin turbo one, and that's what gave me the idea of a Ferrari motor, cause Leno has his. didn't want to copy. too much of a stretch? really want to do a custom, a real non-traditional custom. lots of engine bay for that V12.



#7 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 07:17 AM

I think a Ferrari V12-powered Toronado would be just right. Chop that top a little and make up some 18 or 20 inch rims with the Toronado centers...yeah baby.



#8 MeatMan

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 01:02 PM

I like your concept.  May I suggest using an exotic American engine.  The Viper V10!  The Riv front end is plenty long enough, and you can get a kit cheaper than an import.  Either way, have at it.  I'd love to see the build.



#9 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 01:06 PM

... The Riv front end is plenty long enough...

 

?? Purple car in the photo is an Oldsmobile Toronado., about '66 I'd say.


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 06 May 2014 - 01:08 PM.


#10 Crazy Ed

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 01:27 PM

        You might consider one of the Accurate Miniatures McLaren M8B's. Period Big Block with Tall Injector Stacks. Heck you could even makeup a Story how the Guy had a Neighbor that wrapped his M8 'round the Oak Tree (rip) at VIR. You're just gonna widen the track 6 scale inches.

 

      Crazy Ed



#11 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 01:57 PM

Yeah, and you could even put the McLaren Chevy engine in the back seat. Make a mid-engined Toronado...sorta like the "Hemi Under Glass", or half of a Hurst Hairy Olds.



#12 LDO

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 05:44 PM

Something more affordable in real life would be a Porsche 928. It has a 5 liter V-8 and rear transaxle. It went out of production in 1996. A lot cheaper than a Ferrari.

If your donor can be American, get a C5 Corvette. It also has what you're looking for.

#13 tubbs

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 02:24 AM

man, its great how a simple idea can snowball. now I have to find more tornadoes to build because I like all the ideas..... will contemplate them all. I may have to get this on the bench sooner than I want too.

 

thanks so much for the ideas, keep them coming.



#14 Exotics_Builder

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 02:09 PM

 

That's why I suggested using the complete chassis from the Daytona, instead of getting into all the fiddly mess of converting a US chassis. Also, making a "solid axle" out of a "transaxle" would in reality create something with MASSIVE unsprung weight. Not good at all in a real car.

 

Using the rear chassis of something US that already has IRS, like a Mustang variant or a recent Mopar product would allow the transaxle to be used in place of the original diff, but it's a LOT more work than just using a complete front-engined Ferrari donor chassis and simply lengthening it.

 

The recent Revell Ferrari 575 Superamerica is front-engined, appears to have a full-detail chassis, and is available on ebay currently for about $18 plus $7 shipping.

 

The Revell Ferrari 612, also front-engined, appears to have a full-detail chassis as well, and is available for similar money.

 

612 chassis tree with suspension. Transaxle at upper left.  818-7780.jpg

 

You're right on.  The 612 would be a better choice given the longer wheelbase.



#15 om617

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 04:27 AM

Tamiya have some nice v12 engines in the w/c140 S-class models. This engine has been in some really

cool cars like the CLK-GTR ,and it`s final destination was the Pagani Zonda 760 putting out 552 kW/740 hp

at 8500 rpm and 710 N·m 524 lb·ft of torque. Naturally aspirated. Hypothetical speaking,if you used the engine

from the CLK-GTR model,you could mount the engine in front,scratch a transaxle and have the sequential

gearbox at the rear. Then you have a 630 hp N/A v12 with a really noisy gearbox lol



#16 SSNJim

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:10 AM

Most later model Corvettes have the front engine/rear transaxle layout. Not the most exotic engine around, but it might be a good starting point. Another option is the Porsche 928. Both have been produced by American manufacturers, and you can probably find them pretty cheaply.



#17 tubbs

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 05:59 AM

don't know why, but every time I try to load a picture, it says it's too big,.. so....

 

http://blog.hemmings...5-gtb4-daytona/

 

about half way down on this page is the motor I would like to use. everyone had good replies and I appreciate it. to reply to the replies, I have a nomad and a 65 impala with vette engines in them, I would like to keep it foreign, I have a thing with American cars keeping same make motors with same make cars, foreign motors are up for grabs, I know, strange, wheelbase doesn't matter as long as I can stretch it, it should be OK. I thought about making it a wheelie stander, but went this route, Tommy, my apologies, but that was a lot of Greek you just typed out, had to go to Google to figure it out (I know zero about foreign cars), the McLaren is a good one, but I would like to keep everything under the hood and I think as many cylinders as possible, as far as economics, it's a model so I have unlimited funds, as long as the wife doesn't find out.

 

thanks for all your help guys, I think may be hitting the bench soon, so I think I am ready to throw this on the "WANTED" section and start trolling for a Ferrari.....

 

now, what about interior and color....



#18 Exotics_Builder

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 06:10 AM

Based on your photo, you're looking for a 365 Daytona, not a modern Ferrari.  To get what you want, you'd need the engine, drive train and chassis.  That's a good part of any kit.  I suspect you would need to get a whole kit, not just the parts you need.

 

Good Luck!



#19 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 06:46 AM

365 Daytona kits can still be had in the $20 to $60 range. But be aware that the REAL Miami vice version was a Chevy-powered replica. I don't know if the Revell model has Ferrari guts or not.



#20 LDO

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 06:49 AM

The Revell Miami Vice Daytona is a model of a kit car; small-block Chevy andI think it has a Corvette chassis.