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building a spray booth in a dusty environment. need some serious advice


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#1 Quick GMC

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 02:12 PM

I know there are a lot of threads on spray booths but I couldn't find the answer I was looking for. 

 

I live it a desert climate with high winds. In the summer it is regularly 110 and up. This means two things; the wind is always blowing dust and dirt around and my A/C is always on for half the year, which also blows cap around. There is always dust blowing around. This has done everything short of making me just quit building all together. It's been devastating to my motivation, I have never 100% completed a model. 

 

I have always had a spray booth of some sort, which has helped a lot, but I want to do this right and be done

 

2 factors at play here: 1. The inevitable dust floating around. 2. I can't afford to build any type of completely enclosed room, and I don't have the space for it, or so I think.

 

I want to build my own booth rather than buy one. Not to save money but to be able to do it just the way it needs to be done. My current booth uses a 80cfm ceiling fan. I'm going to utilize two fans for a total of 300-500 cfm on the new booth.

 

I have a few questions/ concerns:

 

1. Is it possible to control or eliminate the dust immediately in front of the booth. With the cfm I plan on running I am afraid it will draw dust into the booth and just making it worse.

 

2. What would be the ideal style flow for the booth.  Down draft? Should I have filters in multiple areas?

 

3. What would it take to build a stand up, fully enclosed booth? I don't have the room for a sit down booth. I have one room for myself for this hobby,  but it triples as my office and guest room, so I don't get the whole thing. I'm 6,3", 250, so I figured a stand up booth would be more space friendly.  



#2 1930fordpickup

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 04:29 PM

High CFM will pull dust into the booth. It could even pull it in from another room.  



#3 Quick GMC

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 04:45 PM

I found this, which seems hard to beat for the money, but I am worried about the fact that it pulls the air down. It seems like that would be the worst case scenario if therected was dust present

 

http://www.amazon.co...h/dp/B000KNFR2S



#4 Quick GMC

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 04:52 PM

High CFM will pull dust into the booth. It could even pull it in from another room.  

 

Thats what I was afraid of. I can't think of anyou way to manage the dust without an actual room



#5 southpier

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 05:06 PM

if it's in a garage or utility room, dampen the floor an hour before you paint?



#6 Miatatom

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 05:39 PM

If you want to totally eliminate dust, you've got to create an enclosure. This is what I did.

 

http://www.modelcars...showtopic=76088



#7 Quick GMC

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 07:07 PM

if it's in a garage or utility room, dampen the floor an hour before you paint?

 

 

Doesn't matter, dust is in the air. There is a sand dune across the street, I literally live in the desert. We regularly see 30-40mph winds. It's minor, but I have ruined so many great paint jobs because there was dust or hair in it. I can only paint with fast drying acrylics or lacquers, enamels are out of the questions.

 

I have been fighting this for years, always looking for a solution. i am coming to the conclusion that I need an enclosure or it simply won't work.

 

My main problem is I have gotten to the point where I feel I should be able to have the space in my room, I shouldn't have to go out into the garage to airbrush, but I'm thinking that's what I will have to do. It's either get this figured out or quit the hobby, because I simply cannot complete a model. I have a dozen or so that are done, except the bodies have bad paint jobs or have been stripped so many times they're ruined.

 

I think I might just suck it up and build an enclosure in the garage. I can't afford the room inside right now. i have a 7 month old. When he is old enough, we can move the full bed out of this room and into his room. Then I will be able to have a little more freedom. I need to do something now though. This hobby keeps me in check and it's been 6 months since I've touched anything on my bench.


If you want to totally eliminate dust, you've got to create an enclosure. This is what I did.

 

http://www.modelcars...showtopic=76088

 

 

Thank you. i am going to read through this. I thought about a blasting booth, but I wasn't sure how it would work. I'm not a fan of handling things with the bulky gloves.

 

Edit: I read the thread. I'm very picky when I wear gloves, i have to be able to feel stuff that I'm touching with detail or I just fumble around. I want to check out those vet gloves you use and see if they might work for me. This might work out in the end, as I can set it up in the room or the garage and have it be somewhat mobile.

 

One thing I am going to do is drill a hole in the wall of my house and put a PVC pipe through it. Spackle it up and touch up the stucco, caulk around it on the inside, add a one way, spring loaded trap door on the outside, that can be operated from the inside. This way I have a permanent, professional and clean looking vent that can be sealed off from the outside. if I ever need to eliminate it, I can stuff it with insulation and patch over it.


Edited by Quick GMC, 20 July 2014 - 07:41 PM.


#8 Miatatom

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 07:36 PM

Thank you. i am going to read through this. I thought about a blasting booth, but I wasn't sure how it would work. I'm not a fan of handling things with the bulky gloves.

 

This cabinet from Harbor Freight can be adapted

 

http://www.harborfre...inet-42202.html

 

 

I wanted a lot of room so I built my own. I've got about $240 total in it, including the bilge pump , tubing and other miscellaneous stuff.

 

The gloves I use can be bought here. They're very thin, inexpensive and work great.

 

QC Supply

PO Box 581

Schuyler, NE 68661-0581



#9 Quick GMC

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 07:58 PM

Thank you. Is it pretty self explanatory how the gloves attach or did you have to modify anything?



#10 1930fordpickup

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 01:40 AM

A furnace filter taped to a box fan also helps pull dust out of the air in your house. You just can not run it right before you paint. It will work as a dust collector. My dad does it at his old farm house and it helps. Just put the filter on the pull side. 



#11 Chief Joseph

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 04:57 AM

How about building a framework from PVC pipes and draping plastic from it, sort of like a portable shower enclosure?  You would have to overcome the static electricity that would probably be present around your actual painting booth, but the larger enclosure should help with dust intrusion into the space.  Barring that kind of setup, the large enclosure that Tom built would be your best bet and you could probably configure the arm holes so that you have sort of a gasket that you stick your arms through and you can just wear normal nitrile gloves.  I live near the ocean so I would love to have your low desert humidity!



#12 Quick GMC

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:48 AM

How about building a framework from PVC pipes and draping plastic from it, sort of like a portable shower enclosure?  You would have to overcome the static electricity that would probably be present around your actual painting booth, but the larger enclosure should help with dust intrusion into the space.  Barring that kind of setup, the large enclosure that Tom built would be your best bet and you could probably configure the arm holes so that you have sort of a gasket that you stick your arms through and you can just wear normal nitrile gloves.  I live near the ocean so I would love to have your low desert humidity!

 

The humidity increases every few years. For a month or so it's pretty brutal. last year we had a week of 116-119, humidity in the 70% range. PURE DEATH. 

 

I use these things called Zip Wall for my business, they are designed specifically for this, and they can be broken down in a minute. The PVC pipe idea reminded me that I have these. 

 

You can even add a zipper flap

 

https://www.zipwall.com/

 

I really like that Artograph booth, but the only way it will work is if I have it sealed off. This may be the answer. I love the blast cabinet, but I don't know if I would be able to handle that. I hate feeling constricted and I have a feeling having my arms in a box is going to drive me nuts. 



#13 Miatatom

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:43 AM

Thank you. Is it pretty self explanatory how the gloves attach or did you have to modify anything?

 

The 5" PVC plumbing flanges I used for arm holes protrude about 3/4" out the front. I put the gloves through the opening and fold the ends over the flange. I always take a piece of duct tape and tape it down to prevent the plastic sleeves from tearing. They are held in place with large hose clamps. You've just about gotten me motivated to do a short video with more details about the booth and how it is set up and works.



#14 Quick GMC

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 09:34 AM

 

The 5" PVC plumbing flanges I used for arm holes protrude about 3/4" out the front. I put the gloves through the opening and fold the ends over the flange. I always take a piece of duct tape and tape it down to prevent the plastic sleeves from tearing. They are held in place with large hose clamps. You've just about gotten me motivated to do a short video with more details about the booth and how it is set up and works.

 

 

Thank you



#15 jwrass

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:01 AM

If you want to totally eliminate dust, you've got to create an enclosure. This is what I did.

 

http://www.modelcars...showtopic=76088

Cameron,

 

I have designed and sprayed in many 1:1 booths and I find Tom's design to be the closest thing to a real 1:1 booth out their ( great job Tom!!!!)

 

I don't know why these manufactures keep calling their booths, booths  They are exhaust fans!!!! or the equivalent to prep stations in a paint shop without the make up air.

 

The true definition of a booth is a pressure controlled closed environment, Meaning: Incoming Air Treatment, Outgoing Air Treatment, Pressures, Temp. humidity etc. Designing a booth has many different calculations that go into the success of a booth that performs well. I won't get into them here ( if you want to pm me I will expound further) Only the basics! To insure clean paint work in your conditions you need to bring in filtered outside air also know as Make up air with a pleated type filter in the air stream, The incoming air should have the a better quality filter than the exhaust fan filter ( much of that has to do with the EPA rules of the area 1:1) I doubt you will be getting permits yada yadas to do your project. I would use the same type of filters on the intake and exhaust.

 

When you put a enclosure inside a enclosure (Booth, Room) you need to have a slight positive pressure on the booth in relationship to the room to create a positive or exfiltration of the air to prevent sucking in trash from the space the booth is in, just a small amount of air will do.

 

On 1:1 systems the incoming air (make up air) is typically treated with a heat cycle or dehumidification cycle to insure year round production! As not to be waiting for that perfect day to paint as project time = $$$$$

 

I personally feel 300 to 500 cfm is way overkill, however if you go that route I would put speed controls on the motors to fine tune your airflows on shaded pole motors, a simple rheostat will do. 100 to 150 cfm should be more than adequate! for your booth, again I would use speed controls as this inexpensive feature lets you fine tune your system.  Keep the motors out of the air stream and stay away from propeller type fan blades as their resistance to over come static pressure in any type of duct work is very poor.

 

I hope this helps!!!! jwrass



#16 jbwelda

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:15 AM

one thing that no one has brought up yet is the possibility of planning your builds on a yearly basis. then do your painting during the wet and/or non-dusty season (there has to be one, right?) and your building the rest of the year. its pretty restricting, that's for sure, but it combined with spritzing down your paint area right before you paint could help you avoid the worst of it.

 

jb



#17 jwrass

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:00 AM

Seems I did address the problem of year round painting with my reference to a 1:1 booth. It's just like racing the more money you spend the faster you CAN go. I could easily put together, manufacture and market a enclosed climate controlled booth but who it going to pay upwards of $ 2000 to buy one. Maybe I should engineer one, draw the plans, put together a materials list and sell it!!!! A climate controlled booth can easily be done!!! No more waiting for weather (which is way over blown) what is that worth? Who knows?



#18 Quick GMC

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:25 AM

one thing that no one has brought up yet is the possibility of planning your builds on a yearly basis. then do your painting during the wet and/or non-dusty season (there has to be one, right?) and your building the rest of the year. its pretty restricting, that's for sure, but it combined with spritzing down your paint area right before you paint could help you avoid the worst of it.

 

jb

 

Our record rainfall for the year is under 5 inches, and that pretty much happened within 48 hours. It rains about twice a year, outside of that it is typically dusty. Some nice days, but if I waited for the dust free days, I wouldn't be accomplishing much. We don't experience seasons, or freeze thaw. It's death for 5 months and pretty BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH nice for the other 7. Minus the wind. In other areas of the valley, like 15 minutes East, it's perfect. No wind at all. 

 

Seems I did address the problem of year round painting with my reference to a 1:1 booth. It's just like racing the more money you spend the faster you CAN go. I could easily put together, manufacture and market a enclosed climate controlled booth but who it going to pay upwards of $ 2000 to buy one. Maybe I should engineer one, draw the plans, put together a materials list and sell it!!!! A climate controlled booth can easily be done!!! No more waiting for weather (which is way over blown) what is that worth? Who knows?

 

 

I think I have it figured out, at least on a temporary budget anyway. The way my bench is positioned, i can place the artograph booth on top, then surround the bench with plastic from floor to ceiling with those Zip Wall things. If I need to take it down, it will all come down in a few minutes. 

 

I don't like the idea of a visquene room inside my room, but for right now, it's the only thing that makes sense to be. it's the easiest to set up and break down. 

 

The one thing I have not addressed is the heat. It's in front of the hottest window in the house and there won't be ac inside the plastic. I guess if it's sealed off, and I run the booth to clear the air, I can run a small fan to cool me down, or is that a bad idea to have any moving air in there?


Edited by Quick GMC, 22 July 2014 - 11:27 AM.


#19 jbwelda

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 12:31 PM

Cameron, you live out in Darwin or somewhere?

 

jb



#20 Quick GMC

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 12:51 PM

Palm Springs. It's not all like that though, It's certain areas where the wind funnels through, which happens to be exactly where I live, and where I work. I grew up a few towns over, which is just a 10-15 minute drive, and we never had wind issues. 

 

 

Here is another idea. Building a Lexan box to drop down over the booth onto the desk. This way I can enjoy the AC, I get the spray booth I want and it's sealed like the blast box, but it's easy disassembled. 

 

I hope you can make sense of this

 

EOOXPzO.jpg


Edited by Quick GMC, 22 July 2014 - 12:59 PM.