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Paint Questions and Experiments!


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#1 1hobby1

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 02:48 PM

To start off I am a modeling newbie so I am open to all kinds of advice, so feel free to share advice! I decided to do some experimenting today. So I am in the process of finalizing a 1978 corvette but decided to experiment some polishing on an extra hood I painted to mimic the color on the corvette. I used Rustoleum Plastic Primer and Rustoleum Gloss Enamel grey for paint. This shows the difference between the regular enamel gloss compared to when I used the LMG polishing kit (wet sand with 3600,4000,6000,8000,12000) WITHOUT a clear coat. I will also be adding photos in a few days of the difference between Testors Clear Coat and Rustoleum Acrylic Enamel Gloss Clear.

 

I taped off half of a spare hood I had lying around and began to wet sand. Here is the Before and After

 

(Clicking on the image makes it easier to see the difference)

Attached File  securedownload (15).jpg   89.21KB   0 downloads

 

Attached File  securedownload (14).jpg   82.9KB   1 downloads

 

Now, I don't know if I did this correctly but, I followed the instructions on the kit and I wet sanded increasing the grit with water and a drop of dish soap. The rough, pitted looking side of the hood is the AFTER from the sanding and applying scratch remover polish! and the "smoother" look is the before with just the gloss enamel on it.  I was shocked!

 

I am looking to get that smooth glossy mirror finish everyone is after!

I will also be comparing clear coats before and after polishing once I spray another spare hood and will post the results!

 

Thanks for reading!


Edited by 1hobby1, 07 September 2014 - 03:46 PM.


#2 bobthehobbyguy

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 04:11 PM

Looks to me that you are getting a lot of orange peel. How far back are you shooting from?
Also from the picture you need to spend more time with rougher polishing cloths , the polished paint still has some heavy orange peel.

Another thing how long are you letting the enamel dry before you are polishing it? That may be part of why the paint is duller after polishing.

#3 bobthehobbyguy

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 04:13 PM

Duplicate post.

Edited by bobthehobbyguy, 29 August 2014 - 05:11 PM.


#4 my80malibu

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 04:22 PM

I would agree with the above statement, it looks like a spatter job.  You cannot get close enough with a spray can or it will start to run. You Could be at least six inches away, and move a little slower, to give you just enough of heavy coverage on your final pass to make it smooth. 



#5 1hobby1

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 04:40 PM

Looks to me that you are getting a lot of orange peel. How far back are you shooting from?
Also from the picture you need to spend more time with rougher polishing cloths , the polished paint still has some heavy orange peel.

Another thing how long are you letting the enamel dry before you are polishing it? That may be part of why the paint is duller after polishing.

It has been dry for 5 days. but you are correct on the spray distance, I did spray about 12inches away for the first coat because I did not want to cover to much area at once. for the second coat and third coat I was closer but not as close as 6 inches away from the body while spraying. I was still further away than that.
 when polishing should I start with a lower grit like 1800 or 2000 and spend a good amount of time on that before moving up the scale?

 

My08malibu :Should I always be that close or only on the final pass?

 

Thanks guys!

 



#6 1hobby1

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 04:45 PM

Also does not having a clear coat on make a difference? I watched a youtube tutorial on paint where a Ferrari model was painted and polished without any clear coat and the paint seemed to have that smooth mirror finish I am after. is that possible without clear?



#7 my80malibu

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 04:50 PM

I spray about that far away when using spray cans, with steady passes. If you get the paint to lay down smooth enough, 3200 grit is good to start with.


Edited by my80malibu, 29 August 2014 - 04:53 PM.


#8 bobthehobbyguy

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 05:08 PM

You want your color coat to be smooth so that when you polish the clear it won't be a lot of work to polish it out. I like to have clear over the color so there is less chance of polishing through the color coat

Edited by bobthehobbyguy, 29 August 2014 - 05:15 PM.


#9 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 05:35 PM

The WHOLE POINT of sanding is to get rid of the orange peel first. Sand it FLAT with whatever grit paper you use first (with that much peel, you ought to start with 600-800). Then, WHEN THE ORANGE PEEL IS GONE, you move to progressively finer grits TO REMOVE THE SANDING SCRATCHES FROM THE PREVIOUS GRIT and bring up the gloss.

 

Also practice painting. You CAN get a finish like this green hood with NO sanding or polishing whatsoever...it just takes practice. 

 

AUG12014Caddy_Challenger_50olds079_zps80



#10 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:47 AM

PS. I'm not trying to be mean, just helpful.

 

That excessive orange-peel you have is one of the problems a lot of beginning modelers get into by taking the popular advice to spray your paint in light "mist coats". This almost invariably leads to heavy orange peel and excessive paint film build-up, unless you're shooting well-reduced paint with an airbrush.

 

Learning to shoot rattle-can paints wet enough so they'll flow out is an learned technique, but YOU CAN DO IT. You just have to TRY DIFFERENT TECHNIQUES until you master getting a slick surface every time (or almost every time). There's a somewhat fine line between shooting your paint wet enough so it will flow and self-level, and shooting it TOO wet so that it puddles, bubbles and runs.

 

EVERY RATTLE CAN PAINT HANDLES SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY, but if you practice and master the basics, like keeping the can moving and getting good overlap and edge-coverage, you'll find that you can adjust your technique slightly with each new paint you try.

 

This also pre-supposes that YOU HAVE TO EXPERIMENT with each new kind of paint and GET YOUR TECHNIQUE DOWN BEFORE YOU PAINT YOUR MODEL.



#11 unclescott58

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 10:35 AM

I use to get orange peel like that on all of my models. And I use to get a ton of advice from other model builders on how to fix the problem. Very little of their advice worked. So how did I get rid of the problem? I quit using enamel paints and switched to lacquers. Especially for painting car bodies. I use to be a cheap SOB. I thought lacquer, especially Tamiya was too expensive. But using lacquer in the long run has turned out cheaper. I have not had to strip one model yet because of a bad lacquer paint job. With enamel I've had to strip quite a few.

Recently I built a model of MPC's Space 1999 Eagle using Testors gloss white enamel. The paint came out okay. I had a second can of the same paint. So I went to paint my MPC '75 Dart Sport with that second can. First coat I got mild orange peel and air bubbles along different edges of the model. So out come the sandpaper. Off come the bubbles. Went to shoot the second coat. More and worst orange peel. Showed it to our expert model painters in our local club. All they could suggest was stripping the body and starting over again. So into the purple bath with the body. Now I need to go to a hobby store and buy some Tamiya lacquer. Should have used Tamiya lacquer in the first place.

Scott

#12 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 12:53 PM

I use to get orange peel like that on all of my models. And I use to get a ton of advice from other model builders on how to fix the problem. Very little of their advice worked. So how did I get rid of the problem? I quit using enamel paints and switched to lacquers. 

 

I don't mean to be argumentative, but any decent-quality paint will give excellent results if you learn to use it correctly.

 

Lacquer is very forgiving of technique and dries hard and fast, so wet-sanding and polishing work very well to bring up a maximum gloss.

 

Enamel works well for getting a gloss straight out of the can. (I freely admit Testors enamels can be frustrating, as they sometimes do like to bubble for absolutely no apparent reason, and they take forever to dry enough to sand and polish...if you shoot from the cans... but the problems CAN be overcome with patience and practice)

 

This body was shot with cheap hardware-store rattle-can black lacquer, lightly sanded and polished. 

 

The WHEELS were shot with Testors ENAMEL (directly from the can) precisely because it self-glosses and there is NO WAY to sand and polish wheels. I needed something that would gloss itself.

 

The results speak for themselves.

 

DSCN0632_zps0c80f1c8.jpg

 

Learning to shoot your paint wet enough to slick-out and self-level, whether lacquer OR enamel, will save you hours and hours of tedious and repetitive wet-sanding.

 

This is the body above, just-shot. Notice the orange-peel is almost non-existent.

 

DSCN0164_zps63f5dded.jpg

 

And this is what your paint should look like AFTER the orange-peel has been leveled, prior to sanding with finer and finer grits and polishing to get the gloss back...

 

DSCN0158_zps51ce9f9f.jpg


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 30 August 2014 - 04:04 PM.


#13 1hobby1

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 03:26 AM

This is all great advice! I'm sorry for all the questions!

 

I have a few model car body's that were painted when I was younger and will probably use those as practice. What is the best way to strip the paint so can I start from scratch with those cars and not harm the body?

 

As for paint, I really would like to use rattle can spray paint either dupli-color or rustoleum. I have easy access to it and to get any model car paint it's about an hour drive for me. I could order them online but, Im trying to save that as absolute last resort. That being said I'm going to have to practice with rattle can paint. I also did not use any clear coat on that practice hood. Would clear coat help when polishing and wet sanding?

 

 Back to the model I am focusing on, Since I already painted the body with the same technique I used on this practice hood, should I leave it with just the gloss enamel with no sanding or polishing, or is this going to have to be a total stripped paintjob and start from scratch?  This is how the body looks.

 

Attached File  securedownload (3).jpg   79.46KB   0 downloads 

 

Last question I promise! when wet sanding I never got that scratched look. The paint also started to thin in some spots and it was just horrible. does that mean I need to apply more paint to the body? I believe this is due to the fact I was spraying in light coats.


 



#14 unclescott58

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 04:18 AM

Plenty of info on striping paint on other postings within this area of web site. Good luck. And have fun.

Scott

#15 Ace-Garageguy

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 04:57 AM

I think you'll like Duplicolor. You get a lot in a can, it's easy to handle, there's a WIDE selection of colors, and it produces excellent results. The green Oldsmobile hood in my post #9 is Duplicolor rattlecan over Plasticoat primer (very similar to Duplicolor primer, which also gives excellent results).

 

The green hood is EXACTLY as it looked after spraying with NO sanding or polishing. After a few days, it lost a little gloss as it shrunk in, but a light polish brought the gloss up better than in the photo.

 

Remember that every model painter has techniques he's developed from trial and error over time, and what we say here is only a guide, each based on his OWN experience. That's why some things may seem to be contradictory, but all I know for sure is what actually works for me, over and over and over, and what I have pictures of to illustrate.

 

I'll put up a little more info about what works best for ME this afternoon when I have more time.


Edited by Ace-Garageguy, 31 August 2014 - 05:06 AM.


#16 1hobby1

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 06:05 AM

Plenty of info on striping paint on other postings within this area of web site. Good luck. And have fun.

Scott

found a great post and got some great info on it. thanks!

 

I think you'll like Duplicolor. You get a lot in a can, it's easy to handle, there's a WIDE selection of colors, and it produces excellent results. The green Oldsmobile hood in my post #9 is Duplicolor rattlecan over Plasticoat primer (very similar to Duplicolor primer, which also gives excellent results).

 

The green hood is EXACTLY as it looked after spraying with NO sanding or polishing. After a few days, it lost a little gloss as it shrunk in, but a light polish brought the gloss up better than in the photo.

 

Remember that every model painter has techniques he's developed from trial and error over time, and what we say here is only a guide, each based on his OWN experience. That's why some things may seem to be contradictory, but all I know for sure is what actually works for me, over and over and over, and what I have pictures of to illustrate.

 

I'll put up a little more info about what works best for ME this afternoon when I have more time.

Great! looking forward to reading more and than trying out new techniques! very very helpful. thank you



#17 MrObsessive

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 06:37 AM

My thoughts on clearcoating..............

 

One does not need to clearcoat a paint job if the paint is a single stage solid color. There's enough hardener (enamel, lacquer, acrylic enamel) in the paint that IMO it makes clearcoating unnecessary. Conversely, metallics should almost always (there are exceptions) be clearcoated as trying to rub out and polish without doing so disturbs the metallic flakes lending to a swirled, mottled appearance.

 

Here are some examples where I did and did not use clearcoat..........

 

No clearcoat on the following........

 

P5110387-vi.jpg

P5050288-vi.jpg

 

The above model has a very subtle metallic finish, so I was able to get away with just rubbing it out and polishing.

 

P4063822-vi.jpg

P4063813-vi.jpg

 

Now here are a few pics of models that were clearcoated due to the metallic paint..............

 

005-vi.jpg

006-vi.jpg

001-vi.jpg

Pa231903-vi.jpg

PA231901-vi.jpg

pa231898-vi.jpg

 

As Bill mentioned, each builder has his or her own way of going about painting. I can only tell you what works for me. As far as burning through coats------I try to make sure that there are sufficient coats of paint to accommodate future rubbing out and polishing. Clearcoating is not always insurance against such a thing happening..............you can burn through the clearcoat as well. ;)

 

Hope this helps!



#18 1hobby1

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:35 AM

Wow those are beautiful finishes. Thank you again for the advice! I will keep that in kids when I come across metallic paint jobs! I believe I just need practice with the spray can as well as my polishing technique. But you have some amazing models there. Thanks for helping and sharing!

#19 Quick GMC

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 07:24 AM

I am an experienced painter who still sucks at painting. I think I can help.

I like polishing the enamels without clear coat because it gives that authentic vintage look.

3600 won't do anything for you on that orange peel. You need something like Tamiya 800 grit. Then 1000, 1500 and so on. It takes forever but you can polish out

You're better off practicing painting and not getting that orange peel.

I just polished the engine cover on my f40. Little orange peel hut not much. Because of the shape it took me an hour from 400 to 12000 and polish. This stuff takes time so you want to start with the smoothest finish possible

Edited by Quick GMC, 01 September 2014 - 07:32 AM.


#20 unclescott58

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 11:22 AM

Since Steve who started this tread mentioned he was new to model building, I need to give one warning about using lacquer paint. What ever you do, DO NOT spray lacquer over enamel paint. Even enamel primer. You can spray enamel over lacquer. That's okay. With most lacquer paints designed for plastic like Tamiya or Testor's One Coat Lacquer I don't even worry about using a primer coat. But, here you need to be careful too. Some lacquers are what they refer to as being "too hot" for plastic. You can use them, if you put down a primer coat first. But so far, with hobby lacquers like Tamiya's and Testor's I've found no problems. Other than the time I sprayed lacquer over an enamel primer.

Scott

Edited by unclescott58, 01 September 2014 - 11:23 AM.