BigDaddy

Looks great Ken !!! However, big blocks arent used in Late Models. Too heavy. Small Blocks, bored out to upwards of 430 ci are common for Open Late Models. Weekly-rules style Late Models will max out at around 364 ci. 406, 415, 418....etc. are just a few of the common displacements in the Open rules. But, they're all Small Blocks, be it Chevrolet, Ford, or Mopar.

Now, back in the 70's, Late Models were using Big Blocks, because they were stump pullers, and the tracks were always heavy, and muddy in those days. A track like that, back then, would blow the bottom end out of a Small Block !!

As you know, tracks nowadays, are all dry slick.

Of course, this is YOUR model, so really, you could have a SuperCharged Hemi Detroit Diesel in there if ya wanted to !!!

I agree completely with both Wayne and Mike.  They are awesome wheels, for sure.  

I may not have explained what I was attempting to say correctly the first time.  I have a tendency to do that !!!

I was going from my experience in slot car drag racing and being forced to use the ProTracks as they come from the factory.  The rears, with the foam rubber, are just too short of a diameter to really replicate a true drag slick.  At 1 3/16", they are short compared to a GoodYear, or Hoosier, in scale.  The fronts, with the puny O-ring they come with, at 3/4", just appear way too small in the wheel well of a model car body.  In slot car drag racing, this is called "hardbody racing", since there is also Lexan bodies being used.  But, those Lexan bodies are terrible for detail compared to a styrene model body.

If you're building a static model, then you wouldnt use the foam rubber anyway, and strip it off.  Same with the front O-ring.  You'd just use a Front Runner, or a BIG O-ring anyway.  I guess I was really not thinking about a static model when I chimed in before !!   In slot drag racing, the front tires dont even touch the track, anyway.  Im sure that's the reason for the puny O-ring.

Micro Nitro can make some extremely nice wheels, maybe nicer than ProTrack.  And you wouldnt have to mess with stripping off foam rubber.  Same money.  Plus the ProTracks have that mounting hub on the backside that you'd have to hide somehow.  Not sure how you guys have worked around that.  Ive never used ProTracks on a static model, so Im lost on that one.

There are a couple other slot car drag car manufacturers out there, that make really nice wheels.  JDS, who has just recently become a member here, and WRP.  Both can be found at www.bracket500.com.  Check either of them out, also.

Dale.......Pro Track's only come in 3/4" for front wheels.  This includes the O-ring in the diameter.  These are the slot drag wheels.  The regular slot car wheels are either only 1/2" or 5/8".  They do make a 1 1/16" front, but it has a foam tire.  Still the same 5/8" rim.

All Pro-Tracks are available anodized in Red, Blue, Black, Gold, and Purple. Or raw aluminum, un-anodized.

It's my experience, with slot car drag racing, that under a model car body, the fronts and rears appear a bit small.  Almost as if the wheel wells are way too large.  Some racers have found much larger wall-thickness O-rings for tires, but I have yet to find them.

Check their site for photos and sizes............

http://protrackcorp.com/cnc.htm

Yeah, there is some unsprung weight there. However not much more than a Sprint Car. Hubs, axle tubes and larger birdcages, of course. The weight of a Sprint Car gives it that power to weight ratio advantage.

Late Models can be as light as around 2200 lbs, whereas a Sprint Car has gotten down to about 1250 ? Forgive me, as the we only have one Sprint track around these parts, and they're 360 cars. So, Im not so much up on the specs as I am for Late Models.

Our Late Models here, are weekly rules cars with 360 ci limit, on a 4 bbl 850 carb. They also have a 8500 chip rule. We also have a "Limited Late Model" which started out as a iron motor on a Holley 4412 2 bbl carb flowing 500 cfm. But, they have graduated to the GM 602 and GM 604 crate engines, running Holley 4 bbls. On a big 4/10ths mile, like I-80 Speedway where I work, it's kinda like watching paint dry !! But, there are also tour Late Models that swing thru here, and they're open cars. Big inch motors on big carbs, no chip rule, and they're at the 2200 lb range. Those cars put on a good show as they're practically wide open all the way around.

When the ASCS cars come to town, they ARE wide open all the way around. And they flat haul the mail !!! Brian Brown practically owns the place as he's won every race he's ever entered there, but one !! We've had some non-wing shows as well, the big 410 cars. THAT is some crazy stuff there !!! Dave Darland, Levi Jones, Robert Ballou, Cory Kruseman, et al......put on probably the best Sprint show that was ever at that track. Slide jobs, wheel stands, etc etc.

Interesting story.........when I used to work the pits as the "pit reporter".....we had a TNT non-wing show. Damian Gardner, former winner at the Chili Bowl, was running his car that nite. He had a fuel pump come apart and his car caught fire. Although, none of us knew it till he came to a stop on the front stretch right in front of me ! Only then did a few of us see the methanol fumes that were burning his legs. Which are sure not easy to see !! He climbed out of the car and bailed over the top of the cage with his legs on fire. I guess I just reacted and jumped down off the front stretch wall, and did the best I could to put the fire out. I think I fell off that wall, more so than jumped, but it was an adrenaline thing and I wasnt going to watch that kid burn in front of me and the entire grandstand. I did the best I could to beat down the flames, but it just wasnt going out. I burnt the hair off of my arms and backs of my hands, and scared the living you know what outta me !! It felt like an eternity for the fire crew to get there, and finally, Jack Dover's dad, Marc, jumped off the wall, and used his shirt to help snuff the fire. We got it out, and then, did we realize the car was still burning !!!! If that thing had gone up, all three of us wouldve been french fries right there. The car was only 10 feet from us. Keep in mind that rest of the field handnt yet come to a stop for the red flag. So, we're down on the track with a bunch of cars whizzin' by us at full tilt !!! Finally, they got the field stopped, and the fire crew got there to assess his injuries. THEN, the race director, who's a former racer and a good friend of mine, took me aside and asked to see my hands. In all that action and confusion, I was so amped up on adrenaline, that I didnt even think about that. I was still in a bit of shock and just stared at him and put my hands up, and he said "turn them over". I thought, "oh geeeezzzz, my hands are hamburger right now". I turned them over and he just said "good, you're ok". I looked down and they were a little red, and a little blackened, but no damage !!! Gardner had some 1st degree burns on his feet and lower legs, but he walked away and they took him to the hospital for treatment and he was racing a few days later.

That was a scary deal, for sure !!! Hope I never have to see that kinda thing again, but if I do, I hope I can react the same way. Just couldnt let that kid burn up like that.

Didnt mean to hijack the thread !!

We now return you to regular scheduled programming................

Hey Ken........yeah, it's kinda strange that a Sprint Car or Midget is so "simple" compared to a Late Model. One must wonder, why ??!! Why couldnt the Late Model be that simple !!

As far as the shifter, yes, it is a simple two handle shifter that literally sticks up thru the tunnel. Since the Late Model isnt an "open cockpit" type of car such as a Cup car, or a simple Hobby Stock.......the "wall" dividing the rest of the "passenger" area is used as a sort of fire wall. And there is a simple "shelf" or tunnel built into that wall. The shifter assembly passes up thru this "shelf" and the driver will shift just like a normal car.

However, the transmission is completely different than a standard transmission in a street car. The clutch in a dirt late model works just the opposite !! Rather than let the clutch out to move the car forward....in a late model, you press the clutch in to get the car to move forward. Start out in first gear, push the clutch in, hold it in as you pull away. Get up some speed, and rpm, then just yank it back into 2nd or High gear and left off the clutch. And you're racin !! It's an internal clutch transmission and only 2 speeds forward. Reverse is the same way as pulling away in first gear. Push the clutch in, and you go backwards.

The shifter rods look very much like, say a Muncie 4 speed. Two simple aluminum tubes with rod ends/heim joints, that attach to the shift levers on the transmission. You will probably have to scratchbuild a Bert or Brinn transmission as they look very different than a Muncie or Powerglide. Same type of bellhousing as a Muncie, but the trans itself is very different.

I'll attach some photos here that I was able to find.............



In the photo above, you can see the shifters on the right side, sticking out of the "tunnel". Straight ahead is the clutch/brake pedal assembly, with the master cylinders above. The bracket sticking straight out above the pedals is the steering shaft mount. A rod end/heim joint will be used here to pass the steering shaft thru and mount the quick change steering wheel to. This photo is taken from the back of the cockpit. Where the seat would normally mount.




This photo shows a Brinn transmission. The two levers at the side of the trans is the shift levers, that the shifter assembly shown below will attach to. The shifter handles is what is shown above, on the right side of the photo. These are made of aluminum, and most of the time anodized, either purple, gold, red and sometimes black.




Hopefully, this helps !! The transmission simply bolts to the bellhousing and "hangs off" the back of the motor. There is sometimes a mounting point under the tailhousing of the trans. Alot of time time, there is no mount so the trans can flex with the chassis. The cockpit is the only part that is separated from the underside of the car. Otherwise, the rear end, trans and all the suspension as well as the drive shaft are only encased, by the body panels. They sort of just sit there in the open....so to speak, but under the body. There are no belly pans on these cars. The only panel under the car is sometimes a 1/4 inch thick aluminum sheet under the driver compartment. To keep things coming thru the floor of the cockpit. Otherwise, it's open to the elements under there.

Also, a Late Model doesnt use that rear end disengaging shifter that a Sprint Car uses. Since it uses a transmission. The rear end is always engaged to the trans. Placing the trans in neutral, obviously, allows it to be started standing still. No push trucks in late model racing !!!!

Keep up the good work !!!