J Morrison
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Posts posted by J Morrison
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I just read through all of this thread and my first impression is that a lot of you guys have an amazing talent for not understanding the original question and jumping all over the OP for completely invalid reasons.
That is a perfectly valid question. Why did so many of you jump in with inane comments that have nothing to do with the question asked? Why are so many of you so eager to start flame throwing? Why do so many of you not understand the question asked and respond accordingly? Seriously... every time someone tries to have an adult conversation here, they immediately get shot down and drowned out by people who don't even understand the question being asked!
Thank you Harry. I knew going in it was a provocative question to ask and was hoping for an adult conversation about it. BTW It's my opinion only. I am NOT trying to force anyone to build a certain way or to any certain standard.
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You haven't answered my question in response to your opening statement. Again, why do you feel a person is compelled to increase the accuracy of his/her work based upon how much public recognition that person's work receives?
Without citing specific examples as to not single out any one specific builder it's a little harder to make the point. Some seem to get the question though. I'll try to explain a little more in detail as best I can.
When someone is a builder held in high esteem in the hobby and one of the go to people for magazine articles and such, how many times can they make the same mistake or use the excuse "I don't know about xxxx"? At a certain point shouldn't those who are at the head of the hobby learn from their mistakes when they are pointed out instead of just playing the "I build for myself card"? Shouldn't they take a little time to learn about what they don't know? You only have to learn the basics once, not before every build.
I realize after rereading my reply that might not concisely answer your question to me Casey. I hope this answer does...I think a "famous" builder has a responsibility to the hobby and fellow hobbyists to represent us in the best light possible. Thereby no longer being able to use the "I only build for myself" crutch.
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So maybe instead of getting hung up on those "glaring" faults and itching to be negative, try looking from a positive perspective. Was the model interesting subject matter? Does it faithfully,if not accurately, leave the overall impression it was intended to leave? Find one thing done "right" on the model and complement that aspect.
Anyone can find fault in every model built, its not hard. If you don't like what you see in magazine spreads and posted on forums, build better (in your opinion) stuff and submit it.
I don't get hung up on the glaring faults or miss the positives of a built nor am I "itching" to be negative. Some things once seen can not be unseen & you can never look at the model without your eyes being drawn to the error. BTW That is what I am talking about when I say glaring error. I simply asked a question based on something I saw earlier and a discussion I have had with other modelers also.
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Do you feel a perfect model is or should be the ultimate goal for every builder, Jonathon?
Why do you feel a person is compelled to increase the accuracy of his/her work based on how much public recognition that person's work receives? Your question seems to be based upon the presumption that there is an involuntary burden automatically placed upon a builder once he/she reaches a certain level of notoriety, and that builder is compelled to increase the quality of their work as viewed and judged through other people's eyes. I'm not sure how you are quantifying the amount or level of popularity which would qualify such a builder for inclusion of exclusion in this compulsion, but it's also just as possible such threshold may not exist.
I can think of one person in particular who fits your idea to a tee, but I think the desire to achieve a level of quality greater than any one else's is something which varies from person to person, rather than being universal, and may not even exist in the truly humble person.
No I don't think a perfect model, unattainable by the way, should be every builders goal.
Maybe it isn't the fault of the builder as much as it is the publications and forums. There have been several builders who have been featured in the "One Great Model" spread that had glaring errors. Should those builds continue to be shown as the standard builders should strive for? Again I am NOT talking about minor errors like proper firing order. I'm talking improper fitting parts. Prototypically incorrect mechanicals, out of scale details, etc
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He never implied he was. He was stating his opinion in response to your request for discussion, so you have to allow all members the right to reply if you truly want to discuss things.
I understand that, was just telling him I wasn't speaking about him. Just like I said I wasn't speaking about myself or most of the hobbyists in general.
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The only time somebody gets vilified is when they are imposing their standards on somebody else.
Never said that somebody can't get enjoyment to building to a higher standard.
Its amazing how you think you have all the answers JM.
I respectfully disagree. It never fails, when someone posts about a mistake a builder made or problems with a kit or manufacturer they get vilified. The only people who impose their standards are the ones who tell others they are rivet counters, or should be happy with what the manufacturers put out without questioning them.
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How about this twist of the original question.
Should builds that have obvious short comings be highlighted so often by the magazines? I'm not talking little issues like firing order either.
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I build what I build, the way I want to build it, for me and me alone. If you mean that by adding all manner of detail just to please and astonish others, I've never done that--I'm the first critic any of my models has to face, period.
Art
You were not one of the builders I was thinking about or referencing Art
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And I thought I would find topics here that discussed modeling techniques and achievements. Silly me, its the same tired pseudo philosophical pot stirring topic that goes on for pages and pages with non sequitur statements used to passive aggressively degrade members who don't strive to be nationally worshiped model gods.
You REALLY need to work on your reading comprehension. First passive aggressive is coming from your side of the discussion. Secondly I'm NOT saying anyone should strive to be a "nationally worshiped model god". I'm talking about builders who already ARE nationally recognized.
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Then maybe instead of spending ALL night beating this topic to death.....you would be better off at the bench working on those abilities
Hmmm, so I can't ask if someone should up their skills being "famous" ,for lack of a better term, with out getting crucified, but you can basically tell me to get off the internet & work on a model. Hypocrisy, yet another one of the old stand by replies. You guys are knockin 'em down one by one. Good job.
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Well I have to say this thread has been entertaining. I'm empressed 35 replies and counting. Glad to see I'm the only one that doesn't buy into the higher standard BS.
As has been said this is a hobby. We build for our own pleasure in most cases although there may be other motivations. If lose sight of that then we need to find something else to do with our time.
empressed...wow Anyway, why does anyone who wants more out of the hobby automatically vilified? Why do you think someone who builds to a higher standard doesn't get pleasure doing that?
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Maybe a better thought out topic would be awarded higher quality replies?
First this is a totally valid topic, a moderator even stated that thru PM. Secondly no, any topic that questions anything about the hobby, hobbyists, model companies, etc will always be met with the same tired replies from people who can't post an intelligent rebuttal when faced with facts and logic. Happens every time, don't know why I thought/hoped this would be any different.
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So what kind of responses were you expecting to get?
I was hoping for better thought out responses, however I should have seen the old standbys coming. They are the blanket replies to every post that doesn't follow the mindless praise everyone here only wants to hear.
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If I should ever become so self centered, righteous, and arrogant as to think that when I build a model it is so well executed that the entire hobby is somehow better for witnessing its existance please someone call my doctor and have my medication adjusted.
This is about the most asinine topic as has ever been started. Flame on, trolls.
Another one of the responses that lack any thought, the name calling response. Lovely. Your reading comprehension is a little lacking also. At NO point did I say I was talking about MY models. I am no where near that level but would love to have my abilities reach that point sometime.
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How is that irrelevant?!!?? Who are you to lead this brigade against these "famous" builders?
Because MY builds don't get national exposure so they are NOT the builds I am talking about. Not that hard a concept to grasp. BTW I'm not leading a brigade (I think you probably meant crusade) against "famous" builders. It was a discussion I had with some other builders and I thought I would bring the topic here.
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Got any pics of your models that we could take a look at Jonathon?
Ah yes, when you can't post a reasonable, thought out response whip out the old stand by "What have you built". That is irrelevant to the discussion as I am not, and may never be, a famous builder in the hobby. If I was, or do ever get there, than I will show my builds with my opinions. If I make comments about something that pertains to things I build or my building level then I will most certainly post pictures of my work along side my comments. I don't have be a nationally exposed builder to have an opinion in the subject, just like you don't have to be a chef to say a dish tastes bad to you.
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Ya know who gets upset? The people that are criticized and scrutinized for their work! They're just like you and me, building model cars because they enjoy it! Then someone has gotta come around and give them BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH about their plug wires not being in the correct firing order! Then guess what happens? They get sick of this BS and then they leave from the public's eye and they go back to closet building. What good does that do ANY of us?!!
I know many very good builders who left the boards because of constant "Rainbows & Unicorns" comments being the only thing that is allowed to be posted. There is a well know forum (predates this one) that used to be THE place to go for the model car hobby new, builders, tips, etc. It literally took hours to go thru the new content that was posted daily. Now 10 minutes & you're done with the new content for the day & at least 75% of that content would be better posted on Facebook than a model car forum. Did criticizing work make people leave? No it was the constant praise for unworthy builds, the bashing of those who pointed out defects trying to help builders improve. Saying that someone will leave the boards because of criticism is almost as ludicrous as saying the model companies will stop making models if we say anything uncomplimentary about their products.
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A few may take this stuff a bit too serious. Dern rivet counters
Why is someone who is passionate about the hobby & builds automatically a rivet counter?
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NEVER.......no one has the right to tell others how they MUST build.
I'm not saying anyone MUST build a certain way. All I'm saying is that when one is in the spotlight often their builds should be up to that level 100% of the build, not cutting corners once the build is 90%-95% done to finish it. That detracts a lot more than the 5%-10% the builder cut corners on. There are several builder out there who build cleanly & accurately that get somewhat overshadowed but the "shiny, detailed for the sake of detail" builds.
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This is silly. It's a dang hobby for crying out loud!! What responsibility or obligation does John (or anybody else for that matter), have to people that want to build models?
Yes it is a hobby, a hobby that some people take seriously while having fun. A lot of people get upset when building models is compared to playing with toys. Work that is shown in national publications with sub-par aspects bring the entire hobby down in how it is viewed.
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Really?
Yes, Really...It is a valid question.
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When the day comes that I stop building for myself, that will be the day that I stop building. I only do it because I enjoy it. If it ever becomes too much like work, I'll take up fishing or something. Steve
I understand that Steven but you missed an important part of the question. When does ones "fame", for lack of a better term, in the hobby thru publications, forum content & followers, elevate one to the point that they are now the "go to" person people point out, to people outside the hobby, as an example of the best the hobby has to offer an must push themselves even more as they are now one of the faces & work of the hobby?
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I would like the forum's opinion on this subject.
When does someone become so popular in the hobby that they can no longer cut corners & "build for themselves" and have to take it to the next level. Whether that means learning & properly displaying mechanicals or take a step back & execute ALL the details properly instead of just 90%-ing details for the sake of them being on the model. What is the opinion of the board?"
When do you stop building for yourself & start building for the hobby?
in General Automotive Talk (Trucks and Cars)
Posted · Edited by J Morrison