Bob Turner2

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About Bob Turner2

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    MCM Regular
  • Birthday 09/06/1957

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  • Scale I Build 1/25

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  • Location United States
  • Full Name Bob Turner

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Bob Turner2's Activity

  1. Bob Turner2 added a post in a topic Got the new Moebius '61 Pontiac Ventura? Here's a couple tips and tricks........   

    *Sigh* Where in my comments did I even say I wanted a "100% accurate, museum quality, exact reproduction of whatever subject they represented"? Are you unable to comprehend what I've plainly posted, or are you just attempting to put words in my mouth & spin my comments in order to make it look like I'm wanting a "perfect kit" or to justify Moebius' continued failure to get one single automotive kit out that's not deeply flawed in one area or another?
    All I want is an accurate representation of the 1/1 in scale, (I'm going to address the assembly foibles of this particular kit in a moment), not something with a pebbled texture, (F100), that's even pebbled under the chrome plating, or a rear end that sorta, kinda, somewhat resembles the 1/1, if you squint really, really hard, (Chrysler 300B). Other manufacturers manage to do this kit after kit. Stop making excuses for Moebius. Heck even Revell/Monogram has corrected some of their more gratuitous errors over the years. Witness the sloping DLO on the initial run of the 69 Charger kit that they corrected, & the reversed gas tank on their 69 Nova that they fixed. Too bad they neglected to correct the numerous body flaws in that kit, but at least they did fix one issue.
    Point two; we're discussing a currently tooled kit, not something from 15, 25, 35 or 50 years ago, so your argument there is completely invalid. There is simply no excuse, none, zero, zilch, nada for such an egregious fit problem in a kit designed & tooled up in this day & age, with all they have at their disposal. As a fan of their S/F & monster kits, I know from personal experience that they can do better than they have in the filed of automotive kits, which is why the garbage they crank out for the auto segment of our hobby is so damned frustrating, combined with how nice their Lonestar kit is in comparison. Gaffes such as I've listed in this thread on all of their auto kits are par for the course for them, & sadly not the exception.
    Part of the problem is this segment of the hobby is so notorious for accepting anything the manufacturers churn out if the subject matter appeals to them, that they'll accept inaccurate or flawed kits that builders in the other segments wouldn't waste their time with. But no, we get people saying "Tamiya like quality!" "Best kit ever!" "I don't care how inaccurate or bad these kits are I've waited so long for them that I'll re-engineer them completely if needed! I'll buy a case...., no two cas.....wait! I'll buy three cases of them!" Remember, it doesn't cost them one penny more to get the kits right the first time than it does to get them wrong.
    And with that said, I'm done with this conversation. It's time to put you on ignore, as you simply aren't worth my time in trying to get you to see the forest, & not only the trees. Have a nice life.
  2. Bob Turner2 added a post in a topic For those have the money   

    At around $600.00 pre tax, I might have to get this.
  3. Bob Turner2 added a post in a topic Got the new Moebius '61 Pontiac Ventura? Here's a couple tips and tricks........   

    Actually no, my comments fit in here well, because it's the typical deal that Moebius does, as well as the first time I've been made aware of the flaws in this kit. Until now, this was going to be the first Moebius automotive kit I bought, (their excellent Lonestar kit aside), as it seemed they had worked out their accuracy issues for once.
    Now, with this additional info, even with the means to correct them, I've lost the desire to purchase this, simply because I tire of most everything that they do being flawed &/or otherwise so terribly compromised, & I shouldn't have to re-engineer a kit for what should be an OOB build. In every review post about Moebius kits, glaring errors & issues have been seen, only to have their apologists making every excuse for them that they can think of. I just found said apologists to be conspicuous by their absence overall in this thread, as if they couldn't find an excuse or a spin to justify this problem.
  4. Bob Turner2 added a post in a topic Got the new Moebius '61 Pontiac Ventura? Here's a couple tips and tricks........   

    And that's an excuse for their constant accuracy & now it seems buildability problems? Again, as long as people are apologists for them there's no incentive for improvement on their part. I'm not asking for a "perfect kit", merely one that I don't have to re-engineer to build correctly out of the box or that fails to look like an accurate scale representation of the 1/1.
  5. Bob Turner2 added a post in a topic Got the new Moebius '61 Pontiac Ventura? Here's a couple tips and tricks........   

    Sadly no, you don't get it. At no point in my comments did I mention subject matter, I was commenting on standards of accuracy & quality, which Tamiya has down pat, but which Moebius consistently falls short in. If you actually comprehended my plainly stated post, you would have seen that the subject matter Moebius turns out I do often desire, it's in the execution that keeps me from opening my wallet to purchase their automotive kits.
    But go ahead & be an apologist for them by grabbing up their often deeply flawed kits & defending them for making such flawed kits in an era when those problems should be a thing of the past. As long as they aren't held accountable by the customers, they'll never see the need to improve. Enjoy those diminishing returns until you do open a Moebius box & see nothing more than that block of wood, carving knife, & a note telling you to carve away until that 1966 Dizzmobile emerges.
  6. Bob Turner2 added a post in a topic Body paint stand   

    Simple way to do that, (with both Tamiya stands), is to glue the top part to the bottom one. It'll still rotate properly & not come apart that way.
    Other than fixing that, I've yet to find a better paint stand, (homemade or otherwise), in nearly 50 years of model building, (off & on that is).
  7. Bob Turner2 added a post in a topic Got the new Moebius '61 Pontiac Ventura? Here's a couple tips and tricks........   

    Where, oh where pray tell are all the apologists for Moebius that are always attacking those who can see that much of their product is sub par, (be it in accuracy or assembly issues), at in this post? Where are the comments comparing Moebius' quality to Tamiya? A ludicrous thought in & of itself that had to be from someone that's never built a Tamiya kit, (especially from the 90s on), as Tamiya kits don't require this level of re-engineering to make the parts fit correctly. Where are those that blindly & illogically praise every single thing that Moebius does, to the point where one feels they would accept a block of wood & a carving knife in a Moebius box, & being told in the instructions to carve the 1966 Dizzmobile from that as their next kit release?
    Sadly, this kind of issue is just the perfect example of their attitude that I got first hand when I contacted them about accuracy issues a couple of years ago:
    Please do not reply or email us ever again, we do not need to be harassed, especially since no one is forcing you to buy, look at or build our products.
    No worries whomever that person was who sent me that reply; I have no intentions of ever parting with my money for your products ever again, based on this kit, the problems with the pebbled surface texture, (especially under the chrome plating!), on the F-100 kit, the accuracy issues with the 65 Satellite, & that horrid back end on the 56 300B, a car that I'd desired a model of since the early 70s.
    In this day & age there's no excuse that can be made for these kind of continuous errors, flaws & gaffes from any manufacturer, especially one that is now past "start up" problems & has been around a while.
  8. Bob Turner2 added a post in a topic Super Stocker Mustang Trans-Kit   

    The MPC Super Stocker series consisted of the Dick Trickle Mustang, the Jegs Camaro, the Bob Larrivee Chevelle & a fictional GTO, fictional Cuda, & a fictional Monte Carlo.
    All but the Monte Carlo used a modified version of an annual kit body, with one partial exception to be seen. The Monte Carlo used the body tooled up for the Coo Coo Marlin #14 NASCAR Monte Carlo tooled up by MPC, as MPC never did a Monte Carlo as an annual kit at that time. The GTO is also only partially part of the MPC annual series, because in 1970, apparently they got a huge promo order for GTOs from Pontiac, & thus tooled up two different bodies. One went on to be the basis for the GTO annual kits from 1970-1972 & the other wound up as the body for the David Pearson driven NASCAR GTO he ran in a few races in 1971. That body then wound up as part of the Super Stocker series.
    Other than the Monte Carlo & the GTO, the bodies for all the rest were later retooled back to stock, & have been reissued in that form many times over the past thirty or so years. That's why when the Model King reissues were done, the GTO & the Monte Carlo were the only two that could be reissued.
    The chassis used in the kits are very close to what Ed Howe & Ray Dillon were producing for short track racing in the 70s, & thus were indeed able to be put together with differing wheelbases for use under different bodies, so those kit chassis are highly accurate for both the cars & the era. What isn't accurate, at least for the Mustang, Cuda & GTO is the big block Chevy engine used in all the kits.
    Here's a link to some Howe Racing Enterprises catalog pages from back in the day so you can see just how close MPC got the chassis on these cars:
  9. Bob Turner2 added a post in a topic 1/25 Revell Ford Del Rio Ranch Wagon 2'n'1   

    Though I have disagreed with Mr. Gieger in the past, in the case of station wagons models in that other thread, he never said he was against them, he merely laid out from a business standpoint why the manufacturers don't waste precious tooling dollars on them, in a logical & very well thought out manner. He is also 100% right in that scenario, based on past sale performance of said models over the years. Most of the station wagon models tooled up in the past were annual kits, who's tooling costs had been at least partially paid for by the 1/1 manufactrers via the promos they ordered. In this case Revell, et al, would have to absorb the tooling costs themselves, & the desires of a small but vocal minority of model buyers isn't enough to convince them of the ROI on such a product.

    Are you really so obtuse as to fail to grasp the difference?

    And why pray tell are you dragging that subject into this thread if for no other reason than to start up another argument?
  10. Bob Turner2 added a post in a topic New Moebius Ford Pick-ups 1971 Ranger XLT AND 1969 Custom SWB   

    Thank you John! I started building in 1966, so I'm not far behind you. You made every point succinctly & perfectly.
  11. Bob Turner2 added a post in a topic New Moebius Ford Pick-ups 1971 Ranger XLT AND 1969 Custom SWB   

    What!?! Your analogy is roughly equivalent to saying if I want a good meal at a fine restaurant I have to cook it myself. That's completely off base. Wanting an accurate, buildable kit from what I purchased is laziness? Where do you get that idea? If I chose to modify or customize a kit, then yes, I should & do expect to do more work to get it to look like I envision. But for crying out loud, I shouldn't have to do their work for them to get a kit to the level of accuracy it should have been at in the first place.

    If all of this is part of model building, then why do I rarely have to do more than basic cleanup with a Tamiya or a Galaxie Ltd kit? Why did the Revell midget kits I built, (a shining example of Revell getting it right), just fall together? Why did my Moebius International ProStar, ( a shining example of Moebius getting it right), not only build up well, but look accurate & true to the 1/1 when completed? Why was my Moebius Frankenstein kit, (another that they got right), such a joy to build & so great in capturing the look of Boris Karloff as the Monster? That one did require a lot of putty in certain areas, as well as much flling & sanding of seams, but that's to be expected given the way those kits are designed & tooled up & as to how they assemble. it's not the amount of work involved in buidling a kit, it's the reason that the work is required.

    Trust me, I am far removed from a ten year old building a model with glue on the windshield & have been for years. I was building in the 70's as well, (the 60's also, to be exact), but this isn't the 70's anymore. My skills & abilities have indeed progressed from where they were 40+ years ago when I was that ten year old boy. Why shouldn't I expect the model manufacturers to have upped their game as well?

    It's not a matter of being "skilled enough", it's a matter of we shouldn't have to do this because Moebius or any other manufacturer didn't get it right. By your crteria we hould be happy if a model company put a block of wood in a box & said "Carve away at that until a 69 Ford pickup emerges."
  12. Bob Turner2 added a post in a topic New Moebius Ford Pick-ups 1971 Ranger XLT AND 1969 Custom SWB   

    Bravo sir! I could not have said it better myself!

    Anyone that tries to argue even a single point of this accurate, on target & rational comment simply needs to reread it as many times as it takes for comprehesion to set in for them.
  13. Bob Turner2 added a post in a topic New Moebius Ford Pick-ups 1971 Ranger XLT AND 1969 Custom SWB   

    I'm sorry, but on this forum I do all my communicating out in the open. I have my PM's disabled & prefer it that way. I have no interest in getting into a debate by PM over things. Just for the record, these aren't my "opinions". They are observations made based on the evidence at hand. That test shot simply isn't accurate enough, & no amount of excuses or cheerleading can change that.

    If you can't see the accuracy flaws in the test shot in comparison to only the 1/1 but also to the tooling master than I simply don't know what else to tell you. The kit is likely buildable, but I personally wouldn't be happy with it on my shelf. All that a model car is supposed to do once finished is to look like an accurate miniature replica of the 1/1, nothing more & nothing less, if it is indeed meant to be a miniature replica of the 1/1, in other words, a replica stock model. It serves no other function on the shelf. That's also why I would never buy a diecast such as the one of a similar model Ford pickup as was shown a few pages back, as it didn't do any better of a job of replicating the 1/1 either, at least overall. It was closer in some areas, but not close enough in others.
  14. Bob Turner2 added a post in a topic New Moebius Ford Pick-ups 1971 Ranger XLT AND 1969 Custom SWB   

    Whoa there, why one earth should I support a project like this when the end result isn't going to meet even basic standards of accuracy that have been pointed out ad infinium in this thread? That "impossible to please" comment sounds a lot like those tiresome canards that we're wanting a "perfect model", when all we want is an accurate one. There are countless model companies that get things more accurate than Moebius has in their vehicle kits thus far. To expect less from Moebius is doing ourselves, the hobby & Moebius itself an injustice. They should strive to create the most accurate kits for the money as is humanly possible, not make nor accept excuses of "good enough". We, as a community should hold them to the same standards before we part with our money for their product.

    As I said, I didn't place their International models in the same category, & I will also say that they are very accurate & were a pleasure to buy & build, so I have purchased their kits in the past, when they've met my criteria & been worth spending my money on.

    As long as we blindly cheer & support Moebius, (or any other manufacturer), for churning out kits that fall short as to accuracy, or buildability, or any other basic criteria that should be expected by the modeler, then we do ourselves & the hobby a disservice.

    Wanting a model to be an accurate miniature of the 1/1 isn't being "impossible to please", it's wanting basic value for the money. If you can't grasp that concept, then I simply don't know what to say.
  15. Bob Turner2 added a post in a topic New Moebius Ford Pick-ups 1971 Ranger XLT AND 1969 Custom SWB   

    Thanks. Glad I made someone laugh & also that someone did pick up on that reference. Despite what a lot of people here think, I do possess a sense of humor......