Yes, I searched first, but not clear about "clearing madness"

[MitchP]

Hi all:

I have painted only four bodies before, all from testor's One Coat metallics. I use Tamiya fine primer and have never had issues. I only use spray can paint as I don't have the budget for everything involved with air brush, hydrator, etc. There have been a few issues with dust which I've lightly wet sanded out based on instructions here.

I'm not a perfectionist and don't enter shows. This is my hobby to ease pain from a disability. Only recently have I tried painting with Tamiya as the topcoat. I used almost the same technique as for primer: three mist coats checking for dust or imperfections and correcting them. The primered body gets wiped with a tack cloth or rubbing alcohol using dust free painting gloves. The color coats get three mist coats 15-20 mins. apart to allow for a tackiness to develop and then a final coats are applied. Those coats I fear the most as I have had runs and what you might call "fisheye bubbles" develop which require up to 3-4 days drying time so I can sand them out and re-shoot the area carefully. Smaller dust particles might get 3-4000 wet sanding to fix but if I've not used 2-3 heavy coats I'm afraid it might get to the primered area.

I just used my first can of Tamiya lacquer to spray a funny car body and although it looks nice, I didn't go heavy on the one coat after misting for fear of messing it up. It's dried and has been for two days. I'm not going back to using Future, and I understand I now must wait up to 4 days before applying clear. I will be using Tamiya to be consistent with all paint products. If I had applied the clear within 20 minutes of the last coat, I believe I could have shot 2 coats right away. This is important as I have 6 finished builds waiting to paint, along with 2 in WIP! Is it possible to re-dust it now and try to add another coat of the same Tamiya base?

If not, what purpose would adding a clear coat be?

If someone here could examine my techniques and point out where I could improve, I would appreciate it. As you might tell, I love detailing drag race cars but HATE to paint!

[Jantrix]

Yes, the paint must gas out for a few days before clear.

Reasons to clear.

1. If you ever want to go for that polished shine. You want to polish the clear coat, not the color coat.

2. Protect decals as the model ages. Decals will get old eventually and perhaps flake off. Sealing them under clear is forever.

[Longbox55]

More reasons to clear.

3. Some paints (Testors Model Master and One Shot lacquers, and Tamiya Lacquers, plus many 1:1 car paints) are basecoat/clearcoat. The paint itself dries to a flat or satin finish, and does require a clearcoat for the final gloss.

4. This actually goes along with Reason 1, with metallics and pearls, you do not want to sand/polish the color coat, as it can muddy the metallic/pearl effect. You want to polish the clear in hose cases.

[MitchP]

Thanks folks! The question of an additional coat of base - Bobthehobbyguy gave me several links to the Tamiya site which pretty much showed me I was doing many things wrong in the basic painting process - not consistently heating the can pre-painting, shaking instead of using a stirring motion to prevent separation of solvent from paint before spraying, etc. However, the question of adding an additional coat of paint once I'd discovered flaws in my technique didn't come up.

It's only been 48 hours; is it too late to lay down another coat? It looks good (gloss black) but could use a little more depth. If I can't, I'll deal with it and move on to the clearing step. I intend to use Tamiya TS-13 clear; any idea on time between coats? Should I use the gas-out time for the base color?

Thanks again!

Mitch

[Robyn]

Mitch - it is my understanding from others on this forum and others that if you do not apply the Tamiya color coats/clear coats within the 20 minute flash time that you should wait at least 30 days for the paint to completely gas out before a light sanding and reshooting your color/clear coats.

Sorry for the bad news and I have no experience with this myself as I usually do all of my painting in one setting.

Robyn

[bobthehobbyguy]

I remember reading the an article that said right after the last color coat or wait 30 days. The reason was a possible issue that the clear coat could crack if it didn't fit in that window. Never had it happen to me. Also not sure if this is the case because tamiya has recently reformulated the paint.

[bobthehobbyguy]

Mitch I sent a pm regarding the article that has some information on using tamiya paint.

[MitchP]

Again folks: THANKS! 30 days is a light sentence considering the effort I've put forth on these builds. Please take a moment to check out the Fotki link in my sig line to see (roughly) my progress through so far. The "Billy the Kid" Glidden may have been my first serious attempt or it might have been the "Nightmare" (aka Kalitta re-issue) black Mustang flopper. The Frankenstein version of the Hayes pro street (what 351?) was one of my proudest jobs as I'd learned to build my own roll cage by following am73grand's instructions and I added my own front support bars and strut mounts along with extra tubing ahead of the engine for a fuel cell.

The Gold '55 Chevy is actually a Revell top sportsman body on a failed Shoebox built frame, running gear and interior as I didn't fair well with my 1st attempt at using clear on the Shoebox body and liked the Chevy better. I have the Firebird "street match" car ready to paint with homemade cage and converted carb to blown promod engine, an original Soff Seal Chevy heavily detailed along with a twin with the same converted carb to blown promod engine; parts courtesy of Resin Masters.

Last but not least, I was gifted the body parts and glass of the original Christine top sportsman, which I'm using with a spare Shoebox chassis, rear, Hemi engine and hand-built roll cage. This kit will have lots of Futurattraction parts such as an alum front engine mount, strut assembly, hand formed styrene rod front end and strut support, huge slicks and pop-up DZUS fasteners for panels along the tranny tunnel. I'm using a crank trigger system so I hope to make a believable ignition.

Also on the bench and making great progress is the Pioneer Tom Hoover Avenger build with some fuel and ignition detailing. All the info you've give me is SO valuable as I think I've got about 6 bodies left to paint that have chassis's finished and waiting! Thanks to each and everyone for your knowledge, I may be able to convince my wife to spend a little green for that Ace hardware hydrator. I think it's only 9" tall and 14" around, but it might fit a funny car body. I just don't know if the temp is adjustable. What setting should a body dry on temp wise and for how long?

I gotta crash. Us east coasters get grump in the morning

G'night!

[ZTony8]

Heed the cautions about TS-13(personal experience here).The exception would be in using TS-65 pearl clear.That stuff must be formulated differently because it doesn't crack if applied before 30 days(again,personal experience).

[MitchP]

Thanks Tony. I saw that option on their color chart and was definitely something of an option,since I use to collect Muscle Machines back in 2002 and there was a '51 Mercury that had a pearl white finish on it. It wasn't hugely different from one of the white '66 GTOs but you could tell. Those little collectibles were fun to fill in on my shelves between the Action 1/24 scale funny cars. The 1/64 Muscle Machines more resembled Rat Fink rods than anything else. They went for around $3-5 dollars retail; I was trying to make shelf space for the models I'm now building and the little cars in near excellent condition only fetch around $2 for a group of five on Ebay.

[bobthehobbyguy]

Mitch did you get the painting article link I pm'd you.

[bobthehobbyguy]

Here is a link to tamiya paint questions.

http://www.tamiya.com/english/customer/cs_top.htm

unfortunately they do not recommend using their clear over decals. There are some who say that it can be done with light coats but others who say otherwise. If you google tamiya ts13 clear over decals you can see the comments.

[MitchP]

Bob: I thought somewhere I'd read where if you went the polishing route (or spraying clear) prior to decal application, the decals just wouldn't adhere when everything was ready to go. I guess I'll use an old body I have: sand off the existing color on a fender, prime, mist about 3 coats to some spare base, apply a few mist coats of clear and then let it all gas out. Last step will be to apply decal set as usual and put a few on; see if they hold at least a week.

Thanks!

[bobthehobbyguy]

The secret to decals is the smoother the surface the better. That why you can't put decals over flat paint. You get silvering.

[Mike_G]

TS-13 over decals:

[bobthehobbyguy]

What was your technique for spraying over the decals?

[Mike_G]

What was your technique for spraying over the decals?

I spray several light mist coats and let it dry thoroughly to form a sort of barrier before spraying any wet coats.

[bobthehobbyguy]

That seems to match what I've seen on line however I have seen those that have had problems despite doing that. Also tamiya does not recommend sprayingvtheir clearcover decals. Guess you pays your money and takes your chances.

[Mike_G]

I should add that if you use Microset be sure and let all the acetic acid residue dissipate or it will react with TS-13, causing little pinholes or bubbles to appear as per one of my previous attempts. It takes a few days for the residue to completely dissipate. Carefully wiping the decals down with a warm, moist cloth is a good idea.

[MitchP]

In the immortal words of Charlie Brown: "Aaaaarrrrrrggggghhhh!!!!!!"

Links I've been finding: http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/?showtopic=31664

Tamiya offers no real help, showing a "tag" decal instead of a body decal: http://www.tamiya.com/english/scale/beginner2/3.htm

So, based on Bob's info and addl. research, I just shot a 2nd, more improved basecoat on my Avenger body. This time, water temp holding paint can was appr.100 degrees, distance was closer to model body and speed of paint sweep was higher and more consistent. The original paint job had 3 mist coats completely covering the surface and one overall final coat. It had been gassing out for almost 2 weeks now and despite the knowledge above that "one coat", the metallics and even the Tamiya lacquers may be a combo of base/clear, the finished product was somewhat lackluster to me.

I observed the paint application and I saw no runs, sags or errors, so tomorrow I'll examine it with a fine tooth comb and a flashlight on the paint wheel. If it's o.k., I'll give it about a week and apply the decals. During the drying time I'll keep shooting bodies from my backlog and store them in my big tupperware tray with a lid.

Thanks for the help everyone!

BTW: great article reference from Bob; however it gives good reason for when to clear, but not the process, recommended clear or issues of gas time, etc. http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/painting-with-tamiya-synthetic-lacquers-35?category_id=8#.VSsUL5PsiZO

Edited April 13, 2015 by MitchP