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Revells next release from the Model A Roadster tool - a 30/31 Coupe


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Thanks, it's not that hard to point out the good points as well as the bad ones, and it goes a long way to look like the negative comments are being made as a point that could be improved instead of just saying (as some people do) I'm not going to spend my money on this pile of scrap. I'm going to be optimistic and assume that the obvious points will be corrected before actual production.

Edited by horsepower
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Man, I think this looks like a pretty darn cool kit. I would buy it. Especially if it has all the RIGHT parts so I won't have to go kit bashing and sourcing pieces from elsewhere spending more money to build it up correct. Looks like it does..I hope it gets made available soon and we won't have to wait forever like on the Starsky and Hutch Torino.

But as far as the body inaccuracies everyone has pointed out, I hope they are corrected before production. I have owned a real 30-31 Ford A myself and I see everyones point. What gets me is how such inaccuracies even make it to the test shot / prototype phase. If they went through THAT much work to get it this far, how much more effort would it have taken to get it correct?? This is the early 21 century and I fail to see how technology of the past, when tooling up a kit, was able to the job done better than it is done today. You would think it would be a piece of cake today considering the tech tools available now. I would like to know what their main reference vehicle was. Maybe it was incorrect to start with and those flaws were just duplicated by the kit engineers who just wern't knowledgeable on the subject car to notice right off....

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My first car was a model A too, looked something like this :P I did get it put together and made several attempts at running it on the road, oh well, another story. :lol: So yeah, getting a few simple things right would be nice. S4200045-vi_zps7ce556fc.jpg

Edited by Greg Myers
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I sort of think that maybe the tool makers in China were sent several different pictures of hot rods with the various parts and pieces that they wanted to incorporate into this kit and it's just possible that since there's probably not a multitude of model A's in China that some different things were confused as belonging on an A body and until it was sent to the states no one noticed the mistakes.

I'm really hoping that this is the case and am almost certain that they will be rectified before actual production begins.

And to clarify the "I ain't buyin' it" statement, true it hasn't appeared in this thread....yet, but it was heading that way, I've seen it in a couple of other threads where it quickly becomes a rant against the manufacturer and how bad they have become lately. Sorry for jumping the gun.

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once something reaches a stage where molds have been made and a test shot done, I think it is very very rare to see corrections made that are not absolutely necessary. And by "absolutely necessary" I mean something that would prevent a kid from building the kit. I kind of doubt a room full of board members or production managers or whoever approves products is going to be getting all excited by an incorrect firewall or roof lines, much less a squared off blower or some other details, even if they are called to their attention.

time will tell. if I were to put a bet right now, it would be on not seeing any of that stuff "corrected". its never as easy as one would think just looking at it from our angle. and corporate type people don't want to spend any more money on it than absolutely necessary.

ps: oh and don't go and get all bugged at me. I am just telling you what I see coming; I don't particularly like it, but like that freight train, its oncoming.

jb

Edited by jbwelda
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I think it would have been a lot easier to have done a chop on the Monogram 30 A coupe and modified a Revell 32 chassis to suit.

then added a motor and go fast bits and a nice set of wheels.

That wouldn't make sense, as the Monogram 30 A coupe is 1/24th and the Revell 32s are 1/25th...

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once something reaches a stage where molds have been made and a test shot done, I think it is very very rare to see corrections made...

time will tell. if I were to put a bet right now, it would be on not seeing any of that stuff "corrected". its never as easy as one would think just looking at it from our angle. and corporate type people don't want to spend any more money on it than absolutely necessary.

Yup...so why not just take a couple of hours and get it right BEFORE the molds are made?

That's the part I just can't understand...never will.

I wouldn't be employed for long if things I made had to be corrected and re-made several times over...or if I had the attitude that "Well. it's already made, so it's just too late to do anything about it. Take it or leave it. I can't be bothered correcting my mistakes, and I couldn't be bothered doing the work right in the first place. And by the way, I expect to be paid in full for half-assed work".

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"It appears to be too tall, and squared off"

That "squared off" look is something that is very visible in the new-tool Ala Kart that was released a while back. It just sucks the life out of a design.

I call it "chamfer-itis". Rather than accepting that a part has a gradual curve, the sculptor/3D modeler has decided to make a box and chamfer or fillet the edges (anyone who does CAD will know what I mean).

And having seen that 3/4 view now...yep, the roof is way flat across the visor. That's going to be tough to fix.

I personally lack the "eye" that some people have for curves and compound forms. I understand compound forms as a series of cross-sections. I'm not much of a sculptor because I can't instantly "feel" a form; I have to dissect it first and that takes time.

I'm getting the impression that whoever is doing the 3D modeling for these kits has a more pronounced example of this condition, and is missing the forest for the trees in some areas.

Some aspects of the kit are totally understandable--the firewall dimensions allow for the thickness of the hood, and the squared-off shape will help the hood sit level and flush. But it doesn't look remotely like the real thing...feels like kit engineering has taken priority over realism.

I recently almost purchased a Moebius '56 Chrysler (one of my favorite cars), but something looked "off"...I went home and did some comparisons using photos of the real thing vs photos of the built-up model, and discovered that the real car has this glorious taper to the taillights and bumpers, like the whole car is leaping forward. The kit, on the other hand, presents the taillights and bumpers as vertical, squared-off, and stodgy as hell.

Because the taillight frames and bumpers are chrome, it would take a collossal amount of work to make the back end of that car look like it should.

It was enough to stop me from buying the kit, because it would be a parts kit and I don't need any more hemi engines right now.

So in this case, if they fix the roof/cowl--- I'm happy. I don't care about the firewall, that's an easy fix, or someone will make an aftermarket piece that is more accurate.

Even if the body has serious shortcomings, there will be enough cool and useful parts in the '29/'30 kits to make them worth buying.

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I've stayed out of this discussion because Revell has not officially announced a '30/'31 Model A coupe kit, and I am not authorized to share with you what I know (or don't know) about this subject. But I've been folliwing the thread with great interest.

For those few of you here making definitive statements about what is "wrong" and "needs to be fixed" with this potential future kit, might I offer a bit of advice? It came to me from a former boss of mine at Ford. He was a brilliant engineering executive, but carried a reputation for being difficult to work for (I got along with him fine, though). His advice?

"Confidence comes from two things. Knowing everything there is to know, or not knowing what you do not know."

This is something you may want to consider....

Just a series of observations and what-ifs.

- Suppose the entire Revell Model A kit series was designed by a model kit engineer who is among the most respected of his trade in the entire kit development industry. .And/or suppose he built his own 1/1 scale street rod in his very own garage - and it is a rod that looks great - any of us would be happy to have it move to our garages. Do you think that maybe, just maybe, he knows his subject matter?

- While there are several different aftermarket shapes for Roots blower cases, I would suggest that if the shape offends you, any model builder who is experienced enough to post in this Forum probably has a more likable blower in his parts stash. Would you really delay a kit's entry to the marketplace my months - possibly many months - on the basis of a blower case you didn't like?

- Speaking of the engine, while blower cases are easy to replace, suppose this engine also has a brilliantly conceived and tooled version of another part that is NOT in your parts box, and is virtually never provided in blown SBC street engines provided in previous 1/25th scale kits. Would that change the tonality of your blower case concerns?

- Likewise, someone will offer a revised firewall in the aftermarket within months of the potential kit's debut. Or if you want to build yours right away, and you guys are as accomplished as I think you are, you'll simply slice off the firewall from any of the Revell '31 A Tudor/Woody/faux Sedan Delivery kits in your stash and glue them in place.

- As for the roof, might it just be possible that the kit engineer designed it that way because he saw a 1/1 scale rod built that way and liked the treatment? Or maybe, just maybe, there might be some groundbreaking type of interior treatment that he wanted to be fully visible in the finished model?

And guys, I gotta tell you, I myself don't know everything, or even much about the kit business, but I CAN tell you that it can take months - sometimes many months - to make corrections to a kit tool once it has been initially cut in metal. Such corrections have to go back in the supply base, be re-sequenced into the kit development calendar, run through test shots, and dealt/scheduled accordingly. And keep in mind that hot rod kits are not at the top of Revell's kit development priorities right now.

Accordingly, I have advised my pals at Revell that they should go ahead with future versions of the Model A, whatever they may be, without making any of the "refinements" you guys have suggested here. Let's get the kit out first, build it for ourselves, and THEN lobby Revell (and/or the kit aftermarket) for any changes we think would improve the kit. You can blame me if they take my advice. I hope they do.

So until we get this possible future kit in our own hands, learn the full and complete story, and we then build it for ourselves, let us refer back to the statement from my old boss above. Otherwise there may be some very definitive comments made here that may - just may - turn out to be way off the mark when the day finally comes.

Cheers...>TIM

Edited by tim boyd
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As I've said many times before, if I did my own work that way...just got it out and did corrections later if the griping was loud enough, I'd be laughed out of the real hot-rod building business...and the structural-composites end of the general aviation business before that...and I'd probably be working at Maaco (or whatever other cut-rate body-shop gets away with that kind of approach to 'quality').

I sure as hell DON'T know everything, but I sure as hell DO have to get my own work right BEFORE the client sees it.

And I'm sure I don't get paid as much as these "kit developer" wizards.

Suggesting that "real modelers" will just correct the mistakes is simply not acceptable, especially from someone as respected as Tim Boyd.

Maybe we CAN give a goofy looking blower, that doesn't have any analog in reality, a pass. But it's supposed to be a '30 Ford kit, so it might be nice if it actually looked like a '30 Ford with a '30 ford firewall.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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And it is not like a 1930 model A coupe is exactly a hard car to find in order to take reference photos and measurements.

Yup. Here's one from the shop I work with. Finished last year. https://youtu.be/qSnPO1Q-MoM

I have a little idea of what a model-A ought to look like.

And though I had NOTHING to do with this particular build, this is the quality I'm expected to deliver, and my ability to do so consistently is why I remain on the roster.

And before it starts...yes, I'm aware the car isn't perfect. I know every little flaw on it. It's not Riddler money either, though.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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I am suitably chastised.

Again...my hope is that anything "wrong" with the kit (from a nit-picking enthusiast's perspective) will be easy to fix. That's all.

On the other hand, I can afford to be wrong on the internet. Because if I am...then we all win!

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Personally I think that a small block with a streetable water pump / alternator drive to fit a GMC blower and not an aftermarket case would be worth swapping out a blower from one of a zillion drag models scattered in the parts box, I know it's possible, I've seen a manufacturer do it on an Oldsmobile motor. ;-)

Edited by horsepower
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Now, if I could just find those pictures of that vintage style Model A Coupe I've seen with the deuce style top insert and the padded diamond tuft headliner, I'd have a great idea for some of you. Like I said, IT'S A HOT ROD, not a stock car, and hot rods are built to the owners ideas not the factory designers. If they weren't, there'd never be any Ala Karts, or Chili's Little Deuce Coupe's in existence. I've seen enough Ala Karts and Silhouette kits customized and kit bashed to know that we as model builders can take someone else's ideas of perfection and make them into ours, 'tain't no big thang.

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As I've said many times before, if I did my own work that way...just got it out and did corrections later if the griping was loud enough, I'd be laughed out of the real hot-rod building business...and the structural-composites end of the general aviation business before that...and I'd probably be working at Maaco (or whatever other cut-rate body-shop gets away with that kind of approach to 'quality').

I sure as hell DON'T know everything, but I sure as hell DO have to get my own work right BEFORE the client sees it.

And I'm sure I don't get paid as much as these "kit developer" wizards.

Suggesting that "real modelers" will just correct the mistakes is simply not acceptable, especially from someone as respected as Tim Boyd.

Maybe we CAN give a goofy looking blower, that doesn't have any analog in reality, a pass. But it's supposed to be a '30 Ford kit, so it might be nice if it actually looked like a '30 Ford with a '30 ford firewall.

Bill...while my comments above were not specifically directed at you or any other single person, I do have some comments on your response.

1. I and many others respect your quest for perfection, and it is great that you have a business/career that lets you achieve that.

The model car kit business is, like many industries, extremely complex and much more involved than it appears to outsiders like us. It is also conducted these days with a very small, skeleton staff at each of the model companies. Yes, pure perfection could be achieved, but not in a commercially acceptable and timely manner.

Every successful business involves tradeoffs, and any one in business knows that at some point, you have to "publish or perish". Making those difficult decisions is what we as managers and leaders are paid for. As such, I doubt we'll ever see a 100% "perfect" model kit. While I don't know the whole story, from what I do know, the Revell Model A project in its entirety is among the most complex 1/25th scale model kit tools I have ever seen. It has been in development for years, and it is time for it to go into production and generate some revenue for its maker.

2. You/we have not seen this potential kit and built it, and until then, you/we simply cannot adequately evaluate any "errors" in the context of how much is right for a given kit. If/when this kit is released, I predict that its many, many "rights" will far outweigh the "wrongs" cited in this thread.

3. I don't know what you are paid, but I do know that kit designers these days are not well paid. This is presently a very small, niche hobby business. It doesn't support salaries and commissions commensurate with most business endeavors these days, It's my understanding that kit designer involved here is retired and works on a project by project basis.

4. People who build models DO correct kit mistakes, and it is perfectly acceptable to suggest that this is the case. As someone has said elsewhere on this Forum, that's what makes us modelers rather than kit assemblers.

5. I didn't suggest that you don't know your subject, and I didn't suggest that the kit firewall is 100% correct. I did suggest that it would likely be a quick and easy fix for a moderately experienced modeler. We'll have to wait for this potential kit, though, to find out if I'm correct or wrong on this point.

Cheers....TIM

PS - that's a gorgeous Model A Coupe from your shop. Nicely done! TB

Edited by tim boyd
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I am suitably chastised.

Again...my hope is that anything "wrong" with the kit (from a nit-picking enthusiast's perspective) will be easy to fix. That's all.

On the other hand, I can afford to be wrong on the internet. Because if I am...then we all win!

Chris...it was not my intent to chastise you or any other person posting in this thread, only to suggest that we wait until we know the whole story before taking definitive stands on a future kit's worthiness.

Best Regards...TIM

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To everyone following this thread, I apologize if I seem overly critical.

From everything I've seen so far, both upcoming Revell model-A kits look like they're going to be home-runs.

But with a little tweaking, if it's economically feasible, they would both be out-of-the-park.

Once again...no one is asking for a "perfect kit". But it would be nice to have the things that hit you immediately (at least if you're familiar with the 1:1s) done pretty close.

We all know Revell is capable of producing consistent excellence; they've demonstrated it many times.

PS: I personally am incapable of producing "perfect" work, but in the shop I contract with we all strive every minute of every day to get the things right that will be noticeable, and we try to do it, as I've said previously, before the client sees the car, before it's painted, and most definitely...we try to foresee problems BEFORE they become costly in terms of time and money to correct. Do-overs until we get it right is NOT our SOP...and would be impossible if we were to maintain acceptable costs and profits. We HAVE to catch things during the process...not after it's effectively too late to correct them.

I don't understand how any business can operate any other way.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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Would any one of us except these flaws when purchasing a 1:1 vehicle ? I think not.

I also feel this type acceptance is what divides the automotive modelers from the aircraft / armor modelers and the kits available to them and perhaps the perception that we "just build "TOY" cars."

The first several pages of this thread opine of the engine choice, no big deal there, it is after all, as pointed out a few times , a "Hot Rod" , don't like it ? Swap it.

The crux of the matter seems to be, as pointed out, again by several different people, and again "just their opinions" , that there are a few glaring errors in this "test shot" first the firewall.My question here (well several) is why would a real 1:1 builder try to simulate a real Model A firewall when so many are available? Why would Revell then foist it off on us?

Next the "Deuce" roof insert on a Model A, on a 1:1 car again , a lot of extra work to what end?

Now to the ? misshapen blower case I pointed out, show me a 1:1 example. That's what this type car is all about, power, sticking right up there, without a hood for everyone to see, let's get it right.

As for the quote on confidence, knowing and not knowing, I would suggest this isn't about confidence nor knowing everything but perhaps just knowing of the subject we speak and not being able to speak, I'm afraid the beans have already been spilled and are on the table.

Critical ? expressing or involving an analysis of the merits and faults of a work. Is there a problem here? Most here have voiced a hearty approval of this kit ,others have pointed out ways it may be improved.

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