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Lincoln Y block V8?

24 posts in this topic

Posted

I don't believe this engine is available in any kits or even resin. It was used in some heavy Ford trucks in the mid to late 1950s so it would be nice to have one.

If there is one that would be great to know, otherwise is there something close that might be used as a base to work with? How much resemblance does the Ford Y block of the period have to the Lincoln?

I know there is a Ford Y block in the old Revell '56 Ford truck, and I think the 1950s Thunderbirds, and maybe the '60 Ford Starliner if it is close.

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Posted

The AMT Double "T" kit has a y-block. I dunno if it's Ford or Lincoln.

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Posted

What about the AMT 58 Edsel?

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Posted

The T Fruitwagon has a Lincoln OHV.

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Posted

The AMT Double "T" kit has a y-block. I dunno if it's Ford or Lincoln.

Rob, got it right, it is a Lincoln Y-block, with chrome valve covers & a blower

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Posted (edited)

The AMT Double "T" kit has a y-block. I dunno if it's Ford or Lincoln.

Rob, got it right, it is a Lincoln Y-block, with chrome valve covers & a blower

Well, no actually. It's a mashup sortof engine, with valve covers for a Y-block. The double T kits have even exhaust port spacing, completely incorrect for a Lincoln Y.

100_0250-vi.jpg

An actual Lincoln Y-block has port-spacing similar to a smallblock Chebby, or a 1st-gen OHV Rocket Olds, like this...

detailedmotor.jpg

The valve covers in the double-T kits are very distinctive, and came on the '56 -'57 Continental Mk. II.

MercuryMermaidmillclone.jpg

The T kit has the valve covers right for a Y, but the engines themselves are wrong. The original release looks like an FE derived engine, judging from the exhaust port configuration and location, but the distributor is in the rear, like a Y-block engine. If you look at the kit engines, you'll see the problems. The 368 Y-block Lincoln has the plugs located below the headers, and the wires come in from the bottom, even on the production motors. The exhaust ports should be spaced like a Chebby, not like the FE and MEL, and centered relative to the valve covers. I've been semi-scratchbuilding heads for a correct Lincoln.Y-block for these reasons.

DSCN0432.jpg

DSCN2274.jpg

The easiest way to get a Lincoln Y that looks about right is to start with the 1/24 Ford Y-block in the old Monogram T-birds.

I think Tim Boyd did an in-depth conversion of one, years ago.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy

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Posted

The easiest way to get a Lincoln Y that looks about right is to start with the 1/24 Ford Y-block in the old Monogram T-birds.

I think Tim Boyd did an in-depth conversion of one, years ago.

Specifically the Monogram '56 T-bird, not the '58 which would have been an FE?

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Posted

Drat....

Any reason for specifying the Thunderbird over the '56 Ford truck or '60 Starliner? I've got both in the stash, but no Thunderbirds.

I've also seen reference to the Lincoln being a big block due to it's unusually tall deck height, approximately 1.25" taller than a Ford Y block. That would just require adding some sheet plastic to the top of the block below the heads correct?

Any idea which magazine and issue Tim's article was in?

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Posted

Specifically the Monogram '56 T-bird, not the '58 which would have been an FE?

That is correct. i just looked in the '58 Bird to verify it is in fact an FE.

Any reason for specifying the Thunderbird over the '56 Ford truck or '60 Starliner? I've got both in the stash, but no Thunderbirds.

One reason for starting with the '56 bird engine is that it's 1/24, so it should be a bit larger than the Y-blocks in the various 1/25 '56 and '57 Ford kits...better to represent the larger Lincoln engine.

The '60 Starliner has an FE, I believe, but I don't have time to look right now...though the FE was brought in as of '58, so it's reasonable to assume it's in a '60.

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Posted

The Starliner does indeed have an FE... in fact, the Round 2 2-in-1 reissue from a few years back included two complete 352s. it's a very nice engine, but not what you want.

If it came right down to it, using the Revell '56 F-100 would be very workable. All depends on how dead-on you want it to be, I suppose.

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Posted

The Starliner does indeed have an FE... in fact, the Round 2 2-in-1 reissue from a few years back included two complete 352s. it's a very nice engine, but not what you want.

If it came right down to it, using the Revell '56 F-100 would be very workable. All depends on how dead-on you want it to be, I suppose.

Well it would get crammed into a early Ford C so I guess really only the top end and oil pan have to look the part if it comes to that. Makes sense though if the Thunderbird is 1/24. I think of the '56 Ford truck as 1/24 but I guess it is a real Revell kit so 1/25 not an old rebranded Monogram kit.

Thanks

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Posted (edited)

Just to reiterate, I did do an article with this conversion a number of years ago in the other model magazine. The major change is the cylinder head configuration (particularly on the intake side) which is completely different than a Ford Y-Block. If someone needs the specific issue, send me a PM and I'll look it up.

 

IIRC I used the Revell '56 Ford Pickup block for my conversion, but the other Ford Y-blocks mentioned above would work. I used the valve covers from the AMT Chris Craft Drag/Ski Boat 3 in 1 Trophy Series kit, first released in 1960 and reissued several times in the 1990's under the Buyer's Choice program.

 

DSC_0275-vi.jpg

 

The AMT Trophy Series Lincoln engine most closely approximates the MEL V8 first introduced by Ford in 1958 (which like the Chevy W-Block, places the combuistion chamber in the engine block rather than the cylinder head, meaning that the cylinder heads attache to the engine block at less than the normal 45 degree angle seen in nearly all other V8 engines). The valve covers on that engine replicate (IIRC) the Lincoln Mark II Y-Block units rather than the normal Lincoln Y-Block, but don't quote me on that as being solid fact.

 

BTW, we nearly got an all-new Lincoln Y-Block in one of the kits issued in the last several years, but even with a number of people (including myself) providing documentation, it apparently was not enough to make sure the final result was a quality product, so the idea was dropped during kit development.

 

TIM

Edited by tim boyd

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Posted

Thanks Tim, I guess now it is just a case of finding some good photos to work from. The hotrod photos work for the basic block, but not the stock equipment that went on it.

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Posted (edited)

What about the AMT 58 Edsel?

I didn't see any replies specifically to Tommy's question, but shouldn't the AMT '58 Edsel Pacer kit(s) have a correct(?) MEL V-8?

cea0c163-cb46-41c5-9378-3cabba97661f.jpg

 

As Tim mentioned above, the AMT 3 in 1 Customizing Boat kit does include some fairly well done Continental valve covers, but if the Edsel kit's engine it the best starting point for an MEL, that would be good to know. 

Edited by Casey

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Posted

I didn't see any replies specifically to Tommy's question, but shouldn't the AMT '58 Edsel Pacer kit(s) have a correct(?) MEL V-8?

...As Tim mentioned above, the AMT 3 in 1 Customizing Boat kit does include some fairly well done Continental valve covers, but if the Edsel kit's engine it the best starting point for an MEL, that would be good to know. 

Just so there's no confusion...the Lincoln Y-block is NOT an MEL. They are two entirely different engines.

The Continental valve covers are ONLY appropriate for a Y-block.

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Posted

Just so there's no confusion...the Lincoln Y-block is NOT an MEL. They are two entirely different engines.

The Continental valve covers are ONLY appropriate for a Y-block.

Like Ace said. As far as the MEL series engines go, they were only available (the best of my knowledge) in the larger Mercury based Corsair and Citation Edsels. The AMT kit is a Pacer and is powered by a 361 FE series engine.

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Posted

That's correct.
The more expensive and larger Citation and Corsair was built on the Mercury-Lincoln plattform and the cheaper Pacer, Ranger, Bermuda, Villager and Roundup was based on the smaller Ford plattform.

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Posted

The AMT Double "T" kit has a y-block. I dunno if it's Ford or Lincoln.

It is indeed the Lincoln "Y" block with the die cast aluminum covers

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Posted (edited)

It is indeed the Lincoln "Y" block with the die cast aluminum covers

No, it is NOT. 

The ONLY thing about it that IS Y-block is the valve covers.

Both Tim Boyd and I have gone into considerable detail about this previously. 

See my June 16, 2015 post, above, and Tim Boyd's June 17, 2015 post, also above.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Bill and Dave. 

As to the sources for an MEL, I thought we've gone over this before (and perhaps we did, earlier in this thread, but I don't have the time to check right now). 

Here are the kit sources for 1/25th scale MEL's 

* AMT Trophy Series '25T Double Kit (and its many reissues) - as noted above, this is an MEL engine, but AMT chose to make the valve covers look like the earlier Lincoln Y-Block for some reason. 

* AMT first generation Lincoln Continental kits - 1962- 1965 (I don't have a '61 but I suspect that kit also had it).  This was the Lincoln 430 MEL.  Several of those kits - particularly the '65 annual kit - had some very cool hot rod accessories for the MEL engine.  AMT did a 1965 reissue in the 1990's so this one is not as hard to find as you might expect. 

* AMT second generation Lincoln Continental kits - 1966-1969.  This is the 462 MEL kit.  It was supplied in the kits in stock only form (from what I recall), but most of the engine was plated.  Even though the real Lincolns switched to the all-new 385 series 460 engine in 1968 1/2, AMT kept the MEL engine through the end of the Lincoln Continental annual kit run in 1969.   Someone did a resin rebop....memory says that it was either Missing Link (or one of its facility partners) or Calnaga Castings.  In any case, this was a number of years ago. 

* With a nod to Casey (who posted in a different thread), I should probably also mention that the just-reissued AMT Chris Craft boat kit has a V-8 engine for the race version of the boat, and while very crude, it has several MEL-like  features (the exhaust port spacing, the distributor location, and possibly the unusual engine block to cylinder head alignment seen in the MEL and Chevy W-engines, although I can't tell for sure looking at just a completed model).  But of course it has the earlier, Lincoln Y-Block valve covers, and it appears to be too small, size wise, for a 1/25th MEL.  It would require quite a bit of work to make into a passenger car engine - the Lincoln or Ford Double T kits are a far, far better place to start if you want an accurate MEL for model car usage. .  

Just to reiterate (again), the Mercury based 1958 higher series Edsels had MEL engines, but the AMT Edsel kit replicates the smaller, Ford based Edsel series, and those had FE engines that year, and that's what's in the kit.   

* Finally, for those of you into really obscure kit info, the ultra rare Aurora '22 T Double Kit had a pseudo MEL engine, if you can believe it, which does make some sense as in many ways this is an East Coast flavored copy of the AMT '25T Double Kit in some ways.  However, the Aurora kit has some very unusual features, including a front cover/engine mounting plate that looks like it was designed for a V-Drive boat, and MEL Valve Covers with "Corvette" lettering.  I know Norm Veber pulled some molds of this engine, and made a few copies years ago, so he might be a source, but only if you were trying to build a hot-rodded and nostalgia-dripping Hot Rod model, not a showroom stock MEL. 

Hope that helps...TIM . 

TIM 

 

PS - anybody wanna guess what kit might have had the Lincoln Y-Block I mentioned above, had things worked out differently?  

Edited by tim boyd

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Posted

 

PS - anybody wanna guess what kit might have had the Lincoln Y-Block I mentioned above, had things worked out differently?  

Seems like it would be an appropriate mill for the Revell custom '49 Mercury, instead of the Caddy engine that it ended up with.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks all for the clarification/info on the Lincoln V-8s and MELs. :)

Tim, the AMT Customizing Boat's engine is what started the wheels turning in my head, but the kit's engine doesn't pass the Lincoln Y-block test, as the center two exhaust ports on each side of the engine aren't siamesed:

WP_20171014_010.jpg

 

The AMT Customizing Boat kit's Lincoln Continental style valve covers for reference:

WP_20171014_018.jpg

Edited by Casey

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Posted

Thanks all for the clarification/info on the Lincoln V-8s and MELs. :)

Tim, the AMT Customizing Boat's engine is what started the wheels turning in my head, but the kit's engine doesn't pass the Lincoln Y-block test, as the center two exhaust ports on each side of the engine aren't siamesed:

WP_20171014_010.jpg

 

The AMT Customizing Boat kit's Lincoln Continental style valve covers for reference:

WP_20171014_018.jpg

Casey....fully agree that the Boat kit is not a Y-Block, most obviously due to the exhaust port spacing as you note.  Ironically, the exhaust port spacing IS correct, though, for an MEL.

I checked out the Boat kit engine up close again, and the block has the normal 45 degree V8 angle to mount the head and intake assembly, rather than the MEL's more shallow angle, so in that regard it is not authentic as an MEL, either.   Kind of generic engine with a mish-mash of mostly generic parts from various sources.  TIM  

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