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Yet another paint question re: clear coats


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OK, it seems that Testors makes at least three clear coats, clear, ultra gloss clear and wet look clear. The latter two seem self explanatory, and ultra is what I've been using lately, but is the plain clear going to end up as glossy as the ultra gloss? I fear not, but really have no idea what the difference(s) might be.

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The "ultra-gloss" is part of the basecoat-clearcoat 2-stage "Custom Lacquer System". #28139. It may possibly be formulated differently to use over the specific basecoats in the line. I haven't used it yet. My guess is it's a lower-viscosity than the "wet-look" product, because it's intended to be used over multiple basecoats. Lower viscosity would mean less film thickness on the final job, less likely to obscure and fill details.

The "wet-look-clear" #1834 is part of the "One Coat Lacquer" system. I've used this product extensively, and it has a good build, needs about 3 coats to be safe to wetsand and polish (assuming it's not orange-peeled), and sands and polishes to a very nice gloss.

Then there's "Gloss Clear Lacquer" , "all-purpose" #1261, with which I have no experience.

Trying to find hard info on the actual differences can be discouraging. Here's the useless Testors website.    http://www.testors.com/

This is the as-sprayed "wet-look" #1834 product...no sanding or polishing.

 

AUG12014Caddy_Challenger_50olds079_zps80

 

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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I couldn't agree more about the Testors site, completely useless aside for some MSDS sheets, which really tell me nothing. That green and clear coat on your car looks outstanding! I'm now beginning to suspect that I may have been using the wrong clear on my models. (I'm in the process of trashing yet another paint job right now, and am beginning to grow very weary of it.)

Not sure if it's still available but they also had a Flat Lacquer, Dull Coat. It works great if you want the faded out look.

Yep, I've been using dull cote for years on all my military stuff. Most (if not all) of the best looking paint jobs I've seen on this site, seem to have been done using various combinations of lacquers, and I'm trying my darnedest to make my cars look as good, but am having no luck at all, I mean just none.

Thanks,

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This is also the "wet-look" 1834 product, again not sanded or buffed. I should have sanded the clear between coats to avoid the rolling of the edges on the door-lines. The product builds well, and I was thinking I could sand it a little flatter afterwards. If you're needing to use a lot of coats (this is 5), I'd recommend at least experimenting with the 28139. I'm on the way to my LHS to see if I can get some to play with.

DSCN5575.jpg

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, and I'm trying my darnedest to make my cars look as good, but am having no luck at all, I mean just none.

Kevin,  I never use the cheap Testors line due to it's poor quality. I have had a lot of issue with the Model Masters sprays but it's only nozzle issues.  Most of their nozzles spray way too heavy mist and even splatters that will ruin a paint job real quick.  I save any nozzle that sprays fine, even from the large cans and use them when needed. 

I have been using Dupli-Color Acrylic Lacquer lately and find it very nice.

What is actually happening with you paint jobs?

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What is actually happening with you paint jobs?

Interesting question. Mostly, after clear coats, then polishing, I need to touch-up the paint (or clear). and start over again. All too frequently, I end up with paint looking like it's being sprayed on top of wax, despite washing the model thoroughly with soapy water, followed by a prolonged rinse. The photo below is what has become an all too common sight after touch-ups. This one too will now have to be stripped, if I am to ever achieve the sort of finish that I think I should be capable of.

 

amx 5c 003.jpg

It's actually what appears to be an exaggerated fisheye sort of problem, and for the life of me, I cannot figure out what the heck I'm doing wrong. As far as I am aware, the model is squeaky clean, but still this problem persists.

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I've used all 3. The Wet Look and Ultra Gloss seem to be pretty much identical to me. They lay down the same, and seem to have the same amount to gloss to them. IIRC, the Ultra Gloss was released first, as part of the Custom Lacquer system line, which as pretty much all factory type colors.

The Gloss Clear Lacquer seems to orange peel, or at least that's been my experience with it. it's more or less the same as the old Glosscote that's in the Testors line.

While I do have both the Wet Look and Ultra Gloss in my paint arsenal, plus Tamiya gloss and matte clears, my go-to clear lately has been Duplicolor Paint Shop, plus occasionally their acrylic lacquer in the regular Duplicolor line . All 3 seem to work well over the each others base colors, and I do tend to use them interchangeably at times.

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I've used all 3 as well.

While I no longer use any of them on my bodies due to problems I've had, as far as I can tell, there's little difference between the old "Gloss Coat" & the "Ultra Gloss Clear".

The "Wet Look" seems to give a little better finish, but also seems to spray on a little heavier.

I use any & all of them for smaller jobs like interior parts & engines.

 

Steve

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What is actually happening with you paint jobs?

Interesting question. Mostly, after clear coats, then polishing, I need to touch-up the paint (or clear). and start over again. All too frequently, I end up with paint looking like it's being sprayed on top of wax, despite washing the model thoroughly with soapy water, followed by a prolonged rinse. The photo below is what has become an all too common sight after touch-ups. This one too will now have to be stripped, if I am to ever achieve the sort of finish that I think I should be capable of.

It's actually what appears to be an exaggerated fisheye sort of problem, and for the life of me, I cannot figure out what the heck I'm doing wrong. As far as I am aware, the model is squeaky clean, but still this problem persists.

It's hard to tell in your photo but it almost looks like it was sprayed too close and too heavy. The too heavy is easy to do with the Testors nozzles. just before I spray I wipe everything down with plain old Rubbing Alcohol and NEVER  touch the surface with bare hands.  I have not seen a fish in 20 years.  

Practice on junk plastic or plastic spoons until you figure it out.

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That green and clear coat on your car looks outstanding! I'm now beginning to suspect that I may have been using the wrong clear on my models. (I'm in the process of trashing yet another paint job right now, and am beginning to grow very weary of it.)

Most (if not all) of the best looking paint jobs I've seen on this site, seem to have been done using various combinations of lacquers, and I'm trying my darnedest to make my cars look as good, but am having no luck at all, I mean just none.

Perhaps you're expecting too much of your clears? While One-Coat Lacquer works very good if you apply 3 quick coats (as stated), that's not necessarily where it ends. If you want a "deep" shine, deeper than One-Coat out of the can, you're going to have to polish the surface to remove any imperfections, like orange peel, trash, or too much clear resulting in puddling or running. Polishing is a procedure that uses progressively finer grits, which actually do remove some of the clear, but in the process, you get a much smoother finish, which in theory should make the gloss deeper and more shiny. Then, there are to 2-part clears... but that's another story...

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Thanks, Frank. Yes, I have been polishing, using toothpaste and the 3,2,1 Novus system. I've read somewhere that the Novus has silicone in it, though I'm not sure why that would be, but if that is the case, perhaps I'm not removing every trace of it. Each and every disaster I've had so far, has occurred after polishing the clear coat(s), when subsequently adding more paint and/or clear.

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Thanks, Frank. Yes, I have been polishing, using toothpaste and the 3,2,1 Novus system. I've read somewhere that the Novus has silicone in it, though I'm not sure why that would be, but if that is the case, perhaps I'm not removing every trace of it. Each and every disaster I've had so far, has occurred after polishing the clear coat(s), when subsequently adding more paint and/or clear.

I would also recommend ditching the toothpaste as a polishing compound - you really aren't going to be able to tell what type or how much the grit here compares to regular sandpaper. And if I'm not mistaken, Novus is for "clear parts" specifically, although folks have had success with 2 & 3 (fine and coarse) as polishing compounds. #1, as far as I know, has zero abrasives, and is more a "cleaner" than a polisher.

You could use an automotive polishing compound (i.e. Meguiars), but I wasn't sure about the same issue because the product was to be used in 1:1 cars. So, I since then invested in Tamiya's 3-Step Polishing Compound (coarse, fine, finish), and I feel assured that my products is manufactured strictly for model work, and by a company that manufactures styrene car kits.

Lastly, your best bet in the final issue is that you should never clearcoat if there's any chance that you may need to lay down some paint after the clear. If you never do it, you can never have an accident! :o

Edited by fseva
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What you want to watch for with polishing compounds is whether it is paintable or not. Paintable compounds will not have silicone in it, and can be used to polish the base coats prior to clear. I use Turtle wax compounds myself, they've done what I need them to do.

 

 

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 Most (if not all) of the best looking paint jobs I've seen on this site, seem to have been done using various combinations of lacquers, and I'm trying my darnedest to make my cars look as good, but am having no luck at all, I mean just none.

I can assure you, most of my paint jobs right "out of the shop" look little if any better than the worst of yours. The trick is all in the color-sanding and polishing, whether of the colored paint or the clearcoat. Well, that and pre-primer preparation of the body itself.

As they say in rock n roll: "We'll fix it in the mix." B)

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I can assure you, most of my paint jobs right "out of the shop" look little if any better than the worst of yours. The trick is all in the color-sanding and polishing, whether of the colored paint or the clearcoat. Well, that and pre-primer preparation of the body itself.

As they say in rock n roll: "We'll fix it in the mix." B)

Yea, I'm afraid it's coming down to that, at least after I stop making all these stupid mistakes. I'll stick with it though, as I have several schemes that I think will look very nice.

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Thanks, Frank. Yes, I have been polishing, using toothpaste and the 3,2,1 Novus system. I've read somewhere that the Novus has silicone in it, though I'm not sure why that would be, but if that is the case, perhaps I'm not removing every trace of it. Each and every disaster I've had so far, has occurred after polishing the clear coat(s), when subsequently adding more paint and/or clear.

Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and Polish are your friends here. No residue, no silicon, and they bring out an amazing shine. Since learning to work with these products my finishes have improved and I don't even need to use the old Micro-Mark polishing cloths anymore!

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Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and Polish are your friends here. No residue, no silicon, and they bring out an amazing shine. Since learning to work with these products my finishes have improved and I don't even need to use the old Micro-Mark polishing cloths anymore!

I've read about using that here on this site. I'll be grabbing a can,... as soon as I can. I'll also be getting some carnauba wax. I thought I had some, but I certainly can't seem to find it now. I'll probably (or maybe), also grab a set of the Tamiya polishes.

Thanks for the input.

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Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and Polish are your friends here. No residue, no silicon, and they bring out an amazing shine. Since learning to work with these products my finishes have improved and I don't even need to use the old Micro-Mark polishing cloths anymore!

I've read about using that here on this site. I'll be grabbing a can,... as soon as I can. I'll also be getting some carnauba wax. I thought I had some, but I certainly can't seem to find it now. I'll probably (or maybe), also grab a set of the Tamiya polishes.

Thanks for the input.

I have a big thing of Carnauba Wax, as well. However, I'm not sure why I'd ever use it?! Once you get done polishing your clearcoat, there's no major reason to throw wax on top of it... all I can see is that sticky wax would have to be really rubbed into the surface to keep it from becoming a dust-collector or a fingerprint collector... Well, if you can save some $$$ by not buying the wax, you can always put it into new polishing compounds and ditch that toothpaste! ;)

Edited by fseva
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 Most (if not all) of the best looking paint jobs I've seen on this site, seem to have been done using various combinations of lacquers, and I'm trying my darnedest to make my cars look as good, but am having no luck at all, I mean just none.

I can assure you, most of my paint jobs right "out of the shop" look little if any better than the worst of yours. The trick is all in the color-sanding and polishing, whether of the colored paint or the clearcoat. Well, that and pre-primer preparation of the body itself.

As they say in rock n roll: "We'll fix it in the mix." B)

Same here.

I guess there are "pros" on the forum who can muster perfect paint jobs every time with no polishing, but I'm not one of them.

I just strive to do as little of it as possible, because I absolutely hate polishing!!

 

Steve

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The issues you explain now, only after polishing is a different story than we started with.  Yes, if you are using polish with silicone that is the problem. Another note, if you have used those polishes on any paint and decide to do some sanding, wash the wax off good before you start sanding. Sanding will just keep rubbing the wax into the paint. Again, I wash mine with Rubbing alcohol, usually the 70% but I also have 91% for the tough stuff. 

I seldom need to polish my paint. Practice, practice, practice!:)

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 Most (if not all) of the best looking paint jobs I've seen on this site, seem to have been done using various combinations of lacquers, and I'm trying my darnedest to make my cars look as good, but am having no luck at all, I mean just none.

I can assure you, most of my paint jobs right "out of the shop" look little if any better than the worst of yours. The trick is all in the color-sanding and polishing, whether of the colored paint or the clearcoat. Well, that and pre-primer preparation of the body itself.

As they say in rock n roll: "We'll fix it in the mix." B)

Same here.

I guess there are "pros" on the forum who can muster perfect paint jobs every time with no polishing, but I'm not one of them.

I just strive to do as little of it as possible, because I absolutely hate polishing!!

I don't mind polishing, but BMF was going to be the death-of-the-hobby for me... I took days and days to get up the desire to BMF an entire model... even broke up the session into smaller sub-sessions, but no matter, I still hated it. And I hated it even more when I started having trouble with it sticking! BTW, I do consider you to be one of those "pros on the forum", for whatever reason including ones you hate, you sure turn out some drop-dead gorgeous finished pieces!!!

I seldom need to polish my paint. Practice, practice, practice!:)

Are you saying that all you ever do is paint and you're done? Do you get a full-blown deep gloss from your paint?

Edited by fseva
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