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29 Ford channelled over Deuce frame - Under Glass


Phildaupho

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0709sr 06 z+dan gurney 1948 1951+line

I have wanting to build a model of Dan Gurney’s first sanctioned competition ride which was the 29 Ford Roadster in which he recorded a speed of 130.43 at Bonneville in 1950. The car was originally built by Ray Torres who sold it to Dan’s buddy Skip Hudson. Not only was it a fast racecar but it was good enough looking to appear on the first color cover of Hot Rod magazine in April 1951 although there was no article inside. That is the last reference I can find about the car.

I have read that the car was channeled over Deuce rails and it appears the rear wheel openings were filled, I guess to give clearance for the Deuce chassis. I wonder if the body had to be stretched over the Deuce rails.

Now that I finally have the new Revell 29 Roadster kit I am thinking of filling in the rear wheel well openings and then adding a bead made from a 32 Ford Highboy wheel well insert. I will likely use the Deuce kit front horns and cross member as suggested by Dennis Lacey regarding his On the Workbench posts on his 29 Highboy on the 29 frame. At the rear I will incorporate a buggy sprung quickchange.

It looks like tire diameter front to rear was much closer back then so I may use a second set of front tires on the rear.

I will source the flathead engine from the Revell 48 Ford Coupe with components from other kits as required.

I am going traveling until middle of October so it is going to be awhile before I can start work on this project however I would appreciate any suggestions.

Hot-rod-magazine-april-1951

0709sr 04 z+dan gurney 1948 1951+model t

Dan-Gurney-Bonneville-Express

Edited by Phildaupho
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  • 3 weeks later...

What an interesting project you have chosen. Your photos alone provide almost 100% of the info required to build an accurate representation of an historically significant hot rod.

Do you want to build your model of this roadster as it appeared at Bonneville (photo #1) or how it appeared on the street (photo #3)?

I believe the tires & wheels in the Bonneville photo are the same diameter however the rear tire & wheel may be slightly wider.

Even thought the Bonneville photo is B&W it indicates the interior upholstery and wishbones are a lighter colour or at least a different colour than the body. Due to the colour Hot Rod mag cover photo the wheels for the street version are red and therefore they may also be red for the Bonneville version. At first I thought the wishbones were red as well but they are a lot lighter in colour than the wheels in the Bonneville photo. The wishbones may be chrome plated as the front axle appears to be in the third photo. The upholstery appears to be vey light in colour, perhaps an off-white. What are the chances the headlight buckets are black?

I'm really looking forward to seeing your progress.

Gary.

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What an interesting project you have chosen. Your photos alone provide almost 100% of the info required to build an accurate representation of an historically significant hot rod.

Do you want to build your model of this roadster as it appeared at Bonneville (photo #1) or how it appeared on the street (photo #3)?

I believe the tires & wheels in the Bonneville photo are the same diameter however the rear tire & wheel may be slightly wider.

Even thought the Bonneville photo is B&W it indicates the interior upholstery and wishbones are a lighter colour or at least a different colour than the body. Due to the colour Hot Rod mag cover photo the wheels for the street version are red and therefore they may also be red for the Bonneville version. At first I thought the wishbones were red as well but they are a lot lighter in colour than the wheels in the Bonneville photo. The wishbones may be chrome plated as the front axle appears to be in the third photo. The upholstery appears to be vey light in colour, perhaps an off-white. What are the chances the headlight buckets are black?

I'm really looking forward to seeing your progress.

Gary.

Gary - Thanks for your great reply. I am currently traveling so may not get started on the build for a couple of weeks but really looking forward to it. My plan is to first build it as the Bonneville version with the option of finishing it as the street version.

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Great project, just my kind of build. I'll be following your progress with much interest.

If I were you, I wouldn't agonize too much over getting the rear tire diameter just exactly as it appears in the photos, as rear tire diameter could easily vary from meet to meet, being used as a means of fine-tuning the effective rear gearing.

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  • 2 weeks later...

GETTING STARTED

          I finally got a chance to get to work on this project.

THE BODY - The first thing I did was to fill in the rear wheel well openings with sheet styrene. Once fared in, I will locate the stock wheel-well outline with pieces derived from the Highboy wheel-well liners. I am also filling various holes and recessions on the body.

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THE ENGINE – After re-reading Tim Boyd’s reviews of all available flatheads, I am going to use mostly the engine from the ’48 Coupe with the three-carb set up and front cover from the ’32 Sedan.

THE CHASSIS – The kit Deuce chassis will end up being the most modified component of this model. I started off by joining the side rails directly to the narrowed rear section to give more clearance for channeling. Up front I am going to use the forward section of a frame from a Deuce kit, which will permit the use of the Deuce Sedan front engine, mount so I can adjust height of the engine to fit under the hood. I also will be able to achieve a lower front stance. How the two chassis come together will be determined by the location of the engine to the firewall and the length of the hood. Outback I want to use the complete quick-change  & suspension assembly from the AMT Double-T kit and will combine it with the cross-members from the AMT ’29 chassis which I was surprised to find is quite a bit shorter than ’29 chassis in the Revell kit as you can see in the photo.

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I have also included another historic photos I got off the Internet. This is Ray Torres at speed on the dry lakes before he sold the car to Skip.

index

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The stock Model-A wheelbase is 103.5", and I believe the new Revell kit is stretched to the 106" wheelbase of the '32 Ford.

If you're interested, there's a lot of info on swapping the A crossmember and a QC rear into a '32 frame here...   http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/59708-32-ford-roadster-gluebomb-rework-sept-8-15-back-on-track/?page=3

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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The stock Model-A wheelbase is 103.5", and I believe the new Revell kit is stretched to the 106" wheelbase of the '32 Ford.

If you're interested, there's a lot of info here on swapping the A crossmember into a '32 frame here...   http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/59708-32-ford-roadster-gluebomb-rework-sept-8-15-back-on-track/?page=3

Thanks Bill - good info

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This is harder than I thought it would be and has certainly given me an even greater appreciation for what pioneer hot-rodders were able to achieve. Although I had intended from the start to use the front section from a Revell Deuce kit frame, I did not expect to use as long a length as I did. It seems to me that the Deuce frame in the ’29 kit sweeps up much more than the Deuce kit frame. Because the objective is to fit a flathead under a hood, finding clearance for the engine was imperative. I ended up joining the two Deuce frames just aft of the curve of the side reveal. I cut the Deuce kit flathead engine mount receptacles as short as possible as well as trimming the mounts on the engine front cover so they can penetrate the receptacles as deep as required. More trimming of the intake manifold, carbs, air cleaners and hood thickness may be required to get everything to fit. The ’29 kit rear engine mount/cross-member was modified and relocated.

The proportions of the model do not seem to be replicating the real car as expected. To me it does not appear that the Deuce grill shell on the real car was sectioned but still had lots of ground clearance. I will not really know until the stance is established but for now the model grill shell has been sectioned a scale 4 inches.

With the grill shell temporarily in position I was able to construct a hood lengthened made from 2 AMT ’29 hoods. Parts box louvers were then cut into the new hood. The louvered sides are from a Revell Deuce kit. I am also using a Deuce gauge arrangement. The next job will be installing the quick-change, rear suspension and getting the stance right.

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I am stunned. You are absolutely fearless! It may not be a perfect replica of the elusive and mythical Skip Hudson car, but it will be a beauty. For what it's worth to my eye the one unencumbered picture of the street version with Skip at the wheel (reputed to be a police photo!) shows a grill shell that looks a bit sectioned. Forum members may wish to know that the 4 pictures that Phil has shown are all that seem to exist...

Edited by Bernard Kron
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I'm really interested in this project. It appears to be quite the undertaking  especially getting the hood to look so good! And hogging out the "A" dash to accept the duece guages isn't overly easy either! (Have done this to my "lakes" car).  My hat is off to you for doing such a great job!

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Thanks guys. I found this quote by Dan Gurney – “It's a black-and-white blowup pulled from a 1950 snapshot, and that's me in the 10-gallon hat. I'm 19. With Skip Hudson, Ray Torres and Teddy Bear. It's just past midnight outside Ruby's Drive-In at Riverside, and we're headed for Utah and the Bonneville Salt Flats.That car we're grinning over is our Bonneville Express. It was a '29 "A" roadster on '32 rails with a flathead V-8. We took turns on the salt and ran 130.43 m.p.h. in that old car. I've still got the brass dash plate to prove it.”

0709sr 03 z+dan gurney 1948 1951+timing tag

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I will be away from the workbench for a couple of weeks so was anxious to see how the stance and engine location was going to look.  Components are just held together with tape and silly putty. The overall ride height and stance were established by mounting of the front suspension. I did lower the front spring closer to the axle and trimmed down the springs leafs. I also think I achieved a lower front stance by using the front frame section from the Revell Deuce kit. The rear may come up a bit once I install the Model-A rear cross member and transverse spring but I do have a quickchange assembly fabricated and widened from the AMT ’25 T kit. It is also now obvious that the sectioning of the Deuce grill shell was required. The engine can sit a little lower so the air cleaner will fit under the hood.

DSCN2783DSCN2784DSCN2787

Edited by Phildaupho
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  • 3 weeks later...

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FRONT SUSPENSION– As mentioned previously the front spring was reduced in thickness and mounted closer to the axle. The front shocks are from the ’29 kit trimmed, modified and mounted up-side-down. I attached the kit headlight mounts to a fabricated shock bracket.

REAR SUSPENSION -Once the front ride height was established I was able to install the Model-A rear cross member and transverse spring. The spring/shock brackets were modified from the coil spring brackets from the ’29 kit. The rear radius rods are the extra front rods from the ’29 kit. The AMT ‘25 Model T kit also provided the rear shocks. The drive shaft is modified from the REV/MON 1/24 Deuce.

I decided to reduce the amount of chrome on the car so the tie rod and radius rods were de-chromed.

REAR WHEELS & TIRES – Used extra set of fronts on rear for Bonneville version

ENGINE – The exhaust system and carbs are set up for the Bonneville version. Because I choose to use a three carb manifold like was used by the real car, I had to use an off-set generator which is going to make running the radiator hose on the right side a challenge.

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Edited by Phildaupho
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