What To Use For Primer Under Testors Enamels??

[LVZ2881]

I saw somewhere that the testors enamel grey primer is really just a grey paint..

anyone have any recommendations, or will any old enamel primer work???

[Guest Davkin]

I use Plastikote automotive primer under everything and it works great. You don't have to use an enamel primer under enamal, a laquer primer will work fine too.

David

[Olle F]

I know from previous discussions that some of you find this a bit controversial, but here goes:

IMO, primer should only be used when necessary, and in the case of enamel on styrene, it's usually not. A primer is supposed to give you a uniform color, fill scratches, protect the underlaying surface and promote adhesion, so if you don't need all that you don't need a primer either. Hobby enamels are made to be used directly on styrene, so they won't harm the plastic or cause ghosting or crazing like lacquers do. I usually thin it with lacquer thinner, which makes it dry quickly and also seems to help the adhesion. I only use primer after extensive bodywork, or when the difference in color between the plastic and the paint makes it necessary. In the few cases I use primer, I usually go for a flat enamel of the same color as the top coat.

So in short: If your prep work is good and the color allows it, you can skip the primer. The advantages are that (of course) it's easier and quicker to do so, and that you won't clog up emblems and other details with an excessively heavy coat of primer and paint. My bottom line is that the thinner the paint coats are, the better the model will look.

[MrObsessive]

Sorry Olle............But I gotta disagree with you on one point about primer.

Especially with today's plastics primer is essential if you want your model to have as solid a look as possible. I've seen too many models in contests and at NNL's that are very nicely built, but depending on how the light hits it------you can see daylight right through the plastic and paint because the paint pigments are not tight enough to prevent this.

Enamels are the worst at this!

In another words not making the model look solid lends it a toylike appearance. In another post I mentioned that I consider it a compliment if someone mistakes my model for a diecast (particularly a novice).

That tells me I've done a good job to making the model appear a solid and metal like as possible where it fooled people into thinking it was metal.

As far as application.........I use an airbrush to apply primer, so I see where you're coming from as far as spray cans for primer. But I've seen guys use cans for primer and their detail is as crisp as anything out there as far as scripts and whatnot is concerned.

James as David mentioned, any primer under enamel will do...............but I do NOT recommend Testor's gray enamel "primer"! It never dries, and to me is not that durable. You're better off using Plastikote or Duplicolor------or even the excellent Tamiya primers.

Just my 3¢ worth..............no flames intended.

[Olle F]

Sorry Olle............But I gotta disagree with you on one point about primer.

Especially with today's plastics primer is essential if you want your model to have as solid a look as possible. I've seen too many models in contests and at NNL's that are very nicely built, but depending on how the light hits it------you can see daylight right through the plastic and paint because the paint pigments are not tight enough to prevent this.

Enamels are the worst at this!

Yep, I know exactly what you're talking about, and the quick and dirty remedy is to prime the body on the inside. I will give you the same effect, and you can still get away a thin paint coat on the outside. Try it, you might like it.

[MrObsessive]

Yep, I tried that once Olle..............on Monogram's '56 T-Bird. But the pigments in the plastic were so thin that even though the outside was painted red it changed the outside hue (in this case painted red) just the same because the plastic was that translucent.

So it'll depend on the plastic/manufacturer.

I undercoat all my models with Future Floor wax anyway before painting, 'cuz I get paranoid even with stuff as tame as Tamiya's.

I just don't like the paint on plastic look................because to me it looks like............well, paint on plastic.

[LVZ2881]

thanks guys, i have a good assortment of Dupli-color and tamiya primers, so i'm covered...

but i still need to get a dehydrator to get this testors enamel ###### to dry in a reasonable timeframe

[Guest Davkin]

Well, I always use primer because I've never seen a model kit body that was perfect enough that it didn't require some filing, sanding and filling.

BTW, I usually spray my Plastikote straight out of the can, however if I am painting something with fine detail it's no big deal to decant the primer and thin it for airbrushing. Also, I keep some decanted, unthinned primer to brush it into defects that are too deep for sprayed on primer to fill, yet not deep enough for putty.

David

Edited March 12, 2008 by Davkin

[Zoom Zoom]

Back when I used Testors enamels regularly, if I was shooting a metallic or pearl I found they were always terribly weak in pigment. In those cases my primer consisted of a good coat of a similar color of non-metallic solid-color enamel. Often I mixed my own solid and metallic colors. I used to use the gray Testors primer sometimes, but only as a color block since it wasn't a real primer. I only use lacquer primers now; Plastikote white or gray for basic stuff, Tamiya white or gray fine primer for finer work. My recent '74 Caprice shown here was painted in enamel over a base of Plastikote gray primer since I had done a good bit of prep work/sanding/filling of the body.

Also I commonly poured off a lot of the separated clear from those metallics before thinning. They put all that clear in the metallics so they'd be shiny...I think Testors enamels are the main reason a lot of people gave up the hobby before getting any good at it. Gimme lacquers any day!

[Guest Davkin]

Ah! That brings up another thing. If you have an airbrush and must use Testors enamel thin it with laquer thinner, it will actually dry some day! Seriously, if you use laquer thinner with Testors enamel it will dry a lot quicker and harder.

David

[Zoom Zoom]

I've been using lacquer thinner w/Testors enamels since the early 80's. Henry Gonzalez was the guy who painted all the Model Master and car paint subjects for Testors new products back then, and he gave me two of the best tips possible for using Testors enamels; first to use lacquer thinner to speed up drying, and second to use "Bare Metal Foil" polish, which is basically Novus #2 in a small container. Back then I was generally spraying barrier on a model before painting, then thinning/spraying automotive touch up paints. When Testors greatly expanded their colors I started using them a lot. When I got a dehydrator in the '90's my building speed really got a shot in the arm.

One thing I've noticed w/the cars I sprayed back then w/barrier and auto touch up paints is the paint is very brittle. If a hood gets flexed even a small bit, the paint cracks. Enamels don't do this. I believe I often skipped priming after the barrier, but that was so long ago I can't remember.

[kurth]

I really like testors enamels. They really get a bad rap! I have used the grey primer, and have always liked it. It dries to a sort of semi gloss and gives a good surface to paint a gloss finish on. I only ran into problems with it under testors Yellow, the yellow just isn't very pigmented so I used "white primer" from the military colors line. Floquil has a nice primer in their enamel line. Tamiya's spray primers are also a good bet but those little cans get a bit pricey. I can't find plasti-kote in my area or else I would try it. DupliColor primer is great also.

[Zoom Zoom]

The only place I can reliably find Plastikote primer is at Michael's, and they seem to be in most suburban areas so try that. You can also find retailers from the Plastikote website. Their primer seems much easier on plastic than Duplicolor, from my experience.

Testors enamels get a deservedly bad rap in some instances. While those of us that airbrush them have good luck, and they do airbrush beautifully, the spray cans are utter garbage. The thin pigment is magnified when it's shot out of a lousy spray nozzle onto a model car; the stuff would run long before it would cover properly. I will never again subject any model to the russian roulette of using a can of Testors enamel on it. It's bottle or nothing for me and Testors enamels. I prefer decanting/spraying their lacquers as well; Testors will never install a nozzle with 1/10 the quality of a Tamiya paint nozzle. And I tend to decant that stuff too Sure wish Testors/Tamiya would bottle their lacquers.

[Guest Davkin]

The only place I can reliably find Plastikote primer is at Michael's,

I didn't even know you could find it at Micheal's. I get mine at Car Quest.

Their primer seems much easier on plastic than Duplicolor, from my experience.

Plus it just works better. I bought a can of Duplicolor after Pep Boys switched from Plastikote to Duplicolor and I never finished the can once I found Plastikote from another source. The Duplicolor seemed really soft, like it never full cured and gummed up my sandpaper. Plastikote dries fast and very hard.

Sure wish Testors/Tamiya would bottle their lacquers.

Me too, but I have had good luck spraying Testors MML from the can.

David

[Zoom Zoom]

I have had good luck spraying Testors MML from the can.

David

I have too, but my first attempt with it almost was my last. I bought a can of AMC "Big Bad Blue" to paint a resin '70 AMX, and that stupid nozzle spattered like mad Yes, my face looked just like that

I decanted it, added a few drops of Gunze Mr. Color Thinner, and found that it would spray properly. I finished it properly months later after sanding the sloppy first coat down . I've since had decent results a few times from the can, but it's nowhere near as reliable to spray as Tamiya, and as I said before I'm decanting nearly all of it all now because I'm tired of wasting so much paint that doesn't hit the surface I'm spraying. I also had trouble w/Testors clear lacquer blushing if not decanted, something that's not happened w/Tamiya. The Testors clear dries faster (probably why it blushes) and harder; Tamiya compound works a lot better on Tamiya lacquer vs. Testors.

Testors lacquer metallic particles also seem grossly out of scale. I shot Artesian Turquoise on a resin '65 Chevelle 2 door wagon and it looked like a bass boat. I decanted it, and it still was lousy. While it dried I quickly mixed up Testors/Boyds enamels (greens/blues/silver chrome trim which is a great scale metallic pigment) to match and airbrushed a light layer over the lacquer almost like a candy color, and immediately covered it w/the Testors lacquer clear w/o incident. Sometimes you do what you gotta do!

[Olle F]

I've been using lacquer thinner w/Testors enamels since the early 80's. Henry Gonzalez was the guy who painted all the Model Master and car paint subjects for Testors new products back then, and he gave me two of the best tips possible for using Testors enamels; first to use lacquer thinner to speed up drying, and second to use "Bare Metal Foil" polish, which is basically Novus #2 in a small container.

IMO, lacquer thinner is the only way to go with enamels. Not only does it dry quicker, it also seems to adhere much better. I'm usually very careful when I pull masking tape, apply BMF and so on, but knock on wood, I have never had any paint come loose when using the enamel/lacquer thinner combo.

I haven't tried the BMF polish though, I use "The Treatment" which I believe is a fine polish and carnauba wax in one. Whatever it is, it works great on enamels and is also a good product to use when you polish styrene windows.

[Zoom Zoom]

I haven't tried the BMF polish though, I use "The Treatment" which I believe is a fine polish and carnauba wax in one. Whatever it is, it works great on enamels and is also a good product to use when you polish styrene windows.

The BMF polish seems to be identical to Novus #2 (by both testing and "sniff test"), and there are quite a few good polishes for enamels. Tamiya compounds work well on enamel, Scratch X works well too. However the Novus product has given me the best results with enamels in general; it does a great job of polishing w/o any chemical softening. My favorite combo these days is Tamiya compound on Tamiya lacquer, it's amazing how it often negates the use of Micromesh cloths. Otherwise 3600/4000 and then compound and it's generally a great finish. In the old days before Micromesh I used Testors/Flexigrit Micron sanding sheets to wetsand before buffing out the paint.

[kurth]

Ahh yes, good point. The testors Enamel spray cans are pretty much useless. The flats are usable, but gloss enamel...yeah I see your point. But they do airbrush very well.

I checked the plasti kote website and they only seem to sell it in out of the way parts stores in my area. I'll keep looking.

The only place I can reliably find Plastikote primer is at Michael's, and they seem to be in most suburban areas so try that. You can also find retailers from the Plastikote website. Their primer seems much easier on plastic than Duplicolor, from my experience.

Testors enamels get a deservedly bad rap in some instances. While those of us that airbrush them have good luck, and they do airbrush beautifully, the spray cans are utter garbage. The thin pigment is magnified when it's shot out of a lousy spray nozzle onto a model car; the stuff would run long before it would cover properly. I will never again subject any model to the russian roulette of using a can of Testors enamel on it. It's bottle or nothing for me and Testors enamels. I prefer decanting/spraying their lacquers as well; Testors will never install a nozzle with 1/10 the quality of a Tamiya paint nozzle. And I tend to decant that stuff too Sure wish Testors/Tamiya would bottle their lacquers.

[Olle F]

The BMF polish seems to be identical to Novus #2 (by both testing and "sniff test"), and there are quite a few good polishes for enamels. Tamiya compounds work well on enamel, Scratch X works well too. However the Novus product has given me the best results with enamels in general; it does a great job of polishing w/o any chemical softening. My favorite combo these days is Tamiya compound on Tamiya lacquer, it's amazing how it often negates the use of Micromesh cloths. Otherwise 3600/4000 and then compound and it's generally a great finish. In the old days before Micromesh I used Testors/Flexigrit Micron sanding sheets to wetsand before buffing out the paint.

I have a bottle of BMF polish at home, so I'll definitely try it. I usually tend to stick to what works for me, but it never hurts to try to new materials and methods. And speaking of chemical softening: I bet many of us already know this, but regular car waxes and polishes can cause disasters when used on enamels so any tips on products that are safe to use are apppreciated. One thing I like about "The Treatment" is that it's an effective polish but still doesn't seem to affect the paint at all. It will just polish and treat the paint to a nice sheen, with little effort. As a matter of fact, I have even used it on paint that wasn't fully cured, and it still worked great. Another thing I like is that it's a paste, so even a small dab will go a long way.

[kurth]

I found this at Michael's

Is this the same as the automotive product but with a different label?

Thanks

[roncomatic]

This has been a very informative message thread ... at least for me.

I've been using lacquer thinner w/Testors enamels since the early 80's.

I have a question about thinning Testors enamels with lacquer thinner. I'm just getting started air brushing and I'm still working out paint ratios and such. What ratio of lacquer thinner to paint should I use when working with Testors enamels?

Thanks,

ron

[Zoom Zoom]

This has been a very informative message thread ... at least for me.

I have a question about thinning Testors enamels with lacquer thinner. I'm just getting started air brushing and I'm still working out paint ratios and such. What ratio of lacquer thinner to paint should I use when working with Testors enamels?

Thanks,

ron

There's no exact ratio; you thin it out so it flows well through the airbrush. Generally a 1:1 ratio of paint:thinner gets it close, and test from there. If it sprays smoothly w/o running or w/o a dry texture, it should be close. Roughly to the consistency of 2% milk.

[Guest Davkin]

Just enough to make it spray well. Seriously, I do it all by feel. I guess I've been doing it so long I don't need to pay much attention to actual ratios, but I usually still have to adjust a little. Even fresh bottles aren't always exact, much less when they've been used, so you need to develope a sense of the right thinness rather than the right ratio. The paint needs to be sprayable with a reasonable amount of pressure, I use about 20 PSI typically and it needs to come out in the spray pattern you want, not too wide or too narrow. It also needs to come out without spattering, if it does then you've thinned it too much.

David

[roncomatic]

Please excuse the delay in replying. I just haven't had the time.

There's no exact ratio; you thin it out so it flows well through the airbrush. Generally a 1:1 ratio of paint:thinner gets it close, and test from there. If it sprays smoothly w/o running or w/o a dry texture, it should be close. Roughly to the consistency of 2% milk.

This is pretty much what I was looking for. I know that experimentation is the key. I just wanted a starting point.

Thanks again, I appreciate it.

ron

[roncomatic]

Just enough to make it spray well. Seriously, I do it all by feel. I guess I've been doing it so long I don't need to pay much attention to actual ratios, but I usually still have to adjust a little. Even fresh bottles aren't always exact, much less when they've been used, so you need to develope a sense of the right thinness rather than the right ratio. The paint needs to be sprayable with a reasonable amount of pressure, I use about 20 PSI typically and it needs to come out in the spray pattern you want, not too wide or too narrow. It also needs to come out without spattering, if it does then you've thinned it too much.

David

Air Brushing has a bit of a learning curve. That's for sure. However, with the help of folks like yourself and Bob, I'm slowly figuring it out. Unfortunately, for the time being at least, I have to do all my painting outside and it's been way too windy here south Florida to work.

Thanks again,

ron