eBay, Old Kit, Parts & Pieces Pricing, Who's to Blame?

[Art Anderson]

Phineas T. Barnum (yeah, that was his real first name!) said it quite well:  "There's a sucker born every minute, and two to take him!"  EOS

Art

[oldcarfan]

It bothers me more to see kits broken up. Apparently there are people who will buy a vintage kit and part it out. Selling the hood, body etcetera, even the box separately. I was told that you can sometimes make twice the money selling a kit that way than whole.  

[gtx6970]

Those guys can be a Godsend for those of us who may need that particular hard to find part for a kit we may already have.

I have a Johan 1967 Plymouth Fury kit that was perfect in every way, except for one missing hub cap.

If not for one of those "unscrupulous" sellers, it would still be a tricycle.

I see no difference as to whether a seller wants to sell whole kits or just parts.

If there's a market for them, which there is, why would you not sell them?

 

Steve

Same here.

I have several old annuals and  most of them  needs something ( usually hubcaps ) 

I know I can probably get the parts thru Modelhaus ,,,,But  I would MUCH rather buy an original stryene piece if at all possibile. 

  In the past 2 months I have bought 4 sets of  original hubcaps off Larry ( aka Ebay seller Floyd426  ) and have less than $10 in them all . I also needed a rear valance for an MPC 1971 Cuda kit. Bought it off ebay for $3 . I would much rather buy pieces than another whole kit only to rob what I want out if it then take my chances I can get my money back out it .

 

When I start looking for a particular kit. I try my best to buy a complete one,,,but most of them usually go WELL above my budget. So I wait and keep an eye out for a flawed kit,  even if I buy it flawed and then have to buy a part  or 2 ( a set of hubcaps as an example)  I end up with it for well under my original budget in the long run,,,,it just takes patience. I'm not buying kits to resell someday , I am buying to have something to do when I retire in the next 5 to 10 years. So I have plenty of time to fill my 'want list' .

Edited December 14, 2015 by gtx6970

[Skip]

You guys have some great input on this, let's keep it going, I mean not letting it denigrate into a bashing match that's not what I intended.  Really it's almost a which came first chicken or egg question; who feeds, fuels who?

Is it really as simplistic as, there is a sucker born every minute?  Or  Asking what ever the market will bear?  

Nor is it a swipe at those whom sell kits, parts and pieces on eBay, we hear griping about high eBay pricing on vintage stuff all the time let's use this to help get an understanding of why it is acceptable or not to ask these kind of prices.

Regarding the earlier brittle plastic question/statement, I have purchased a couple of kits which were stripped with who knows what, a Garlits Wynns Jammer with major brittle frame rails, a Model A which I bought specifically for its tires and wheels to use on a Model T Speedster, with spokes so brittle I had to use wheels from another kit.  It happens, granted these weren't virgin styrene but they had issues. I learned my lesson and don't buy stuff that the seller or someone else has stripped.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Skip

[Ace-Garageguy]

... I learned my lesson and don't buy stuff that the seller or someone else has stripped.

That's an excellent point that bears reinforcing. I bought one once that looked OK in the fuzzy photos, but in person looked like it had been scraped with 40-grit...useless for anything but a full kustom. A couple others that were "stripped" were poorly done, with details mostly obliterated, and almost worthless as well.

I believe most sellers "stripping" old models is just another ham-handed ploy to ask more money, and since they aren't going to have to deal with the bodged mess they often make of the job, they really don't care.

It's the same as in the 1:1 world where a rusty pig is loaded with bondo and primered, then offered as "bodywork done, in primer, just needs paint". Yeah, right.

Buyer beware...everywhere.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Ace-Garageguy

[Jordan White]

It bothers me more to see kits broken up. Apparently there are people who will buy a vintage kit and part it out. Selling the hood, body etcetera, even the box separately. I was told that you can sometimes make twice the money selling a kit that way than whole.  

If you could sell the parts, you could even make 10 times the kit price, based on one seller I always see. They have 1/16 scale parts (for the Chevy pickup specifically) going for on average around $40-50 for a part or small selection of parts. I was looking to get some that didn't come in my edition of the kit, and to get the parts would have cost me triple or quadruple what I paid for the kit!

[SfanGoch]

Regarding the earlier brittle plastic question/statement, I have purchased a couple of kits which were stripped with who knows what, a Garlits Wynns Jammer with major brittle frame rails, a Model A which I bought specifically for its tires and wheels to use on a Model T Speedster, with spokes so brittle I had to use wheels from another kit.  It happens, granted these weren't virgin styrene but they had issues. 

I believe it. I've experienced the "brittle plastic" syndrome too. I soaked a new, painted body in Polly S "ELO paint stripper for about an hour. After scrubbing off the loose paint and rinsing the body off, I noticed that the body was covered with a flat white haze and small, spiderweb-like lines in the plastic. Like a dope, I decided to flex the lower part of the door section and it cracked off right along one of those spiderweb lines. The ELO must have reacted with the styrene, causing it to become brittle.

[StevenGuthmiller]

I believe it. I've experienced the "brittle plastic" syndrome too. I soaked a new, painted body in Polly S "ELO paint stripper for about an hour. After scrubbing off the loose paint and rinsing the body off, I noticed that the body was covered with a flat white haze and small, spiderweb-like lines in the plastic. Like a dope, I decided to flex the lower part of the door section and it cracked off right along one of those spiderweb lines. The ELO must have reacted with the styrene, causing it to become brittle.

I'm guilty of making my own brittle plastic in years past as well.

I achieved it by stripping with finger nail polish remover when I was a kid.

But those were new kits.

Had absolutely nothing to do with age.

I never buy kits that have been primed, ( you never know what's under the primer) & rarely consider kits that have been stripped.

I like to find unpainted bodies if possible, & if they are painted, I study the photos very carefully & try to determine what kind of paint was used.

It's not always possible but I try to buy kits that were brush painted 50 years ago.

They usually strip very easily.

I try to avoid anything that looks like it could be lacquer paint.

 

Steve

[Craig Irwin]

It bothers me more to see kits broken up. Apparently there are people who will buy a vintage kit and part it out. Selling the hood, body etcetera, even the box separately. I was told that you can sometimes make twice the money selling a kit that way than whole.  

The same thing happens in the 1:1 car world too. Good solid restorable cars are worth more as parts. And thats how they are sold, whats left gets crushed. 

[ChrisBcritter]

I have lost the hood for a 61 Bonneville MANY times from Both sellers as they Never stay below $15.00 or so

I believe I can get a Resin one from Modelhaus for less than Half that!!!!

Don't remind me. I've got as much work in repairing the hood of my '61 Bonnie as I have in the rest of the body since the originals took off. And that doesn't even count fixing the factory fit issues (wouldn't lay flat, too short on the driver's side, etc.). Both those vendors and a few others have been a big help.

Edited December 15, 2015 by ChrisBcritter

[gtx6970]

I try to buy unpainted as much as I can. Its those that seem to be the most common for having the custom add on stuff glued to it.

Thats when I go looking  for pics of the 1/1 cars . To see what the chances are the custom stuff has done damage to hard to repair areas  ( 59 Galaxie is one to avoid thats had the skirts glued to it making the areas behind the rear wheels difficult to repair )

I've been extremly lucky so far and the ones I have where the custom stuff is on them, they'll be relativly easy fixes . My recent 59 Vette builtup may be the exception. I may have to replace the decklid on it from where the spare tire was glued on ruining the emblem .

 

When it comes to stripping them.I've used Wesleys bleach white, brake fuild and Easy Off oven cleaner all with good results. Never had a brittle plastic issue to date

[SfanGoch]

But those were new kits.

Had absolutely nothing to do with age.

So was mine, an AMT 1970 Dodge Coronet Super Bee. A FUBAR'ed paint job by moi. I never buy built-up models. i have my own problems. Why would I pay for someone else's?    

For those questioning the veracity of brittle plastic stories, I submit for your perusal the following:

Problem Plastics Checklist

 

Edited December 15, 2015 by SfanGoch

[oldcarfan]

It's not to imply that any one is unscrupulous. I have known a couple of people, whom I like, who make more buying a rare kit and selling off the sprue trees or individual parts than they would in selling the kit as a whole. It's simple economics. Sad though. It's like a guy who is selling his prized car for whatever reason to someone who wants it due to its originality only to find out that he parted it out and kept only the frame for his hotrod or something. 

[Casey]

It bothers me more to see kits broken up. Apparently there are people who will buy a vintage kit and part it out. Selling the hood, body etcetera, even the box separately. I was told that you can sometimes make twice the money selling a kit that way than whole.  

Do you now for a fact the kit was complete before the seller decided to sell it part by part? Even if complete, was each part still in mint condition, with no damage? Decals perfect, no tire melt marks on the glass, no loose parts rolling around freely in the box, no slightly bent pillars, etc.? Maybe the seller tried to sell it complete and found no takers? There could be many reasons why the seller decided to sell it part by part, none of which any of us a privy to, so to assume makes an a-- well, you know.

I would be more than happy to buy only the box for several vintage kits. If I have no interest in building the model inside, why spend the money on the actual parts? If I need the steering wheel form an original AMT '63 Buick Riviera kit and can buy only that part for $5.00, instead of the entire kit for $175.00, I wouldn't hesitate to do just that.

[IceMan Collections]

"There's an a-- for every seat!" - anonymous

Ebay is an online merchant that gives everyday folk the opportunity to make money.  It does hurt to see great vintage kits parted out but it does pay more than selling it as a whole.  People are on there to make money.  It's like anything else we buy.  We just don't talk about it because we have been used to paying certain prices everyday.  We buy electronics, clothes, groceries, all which may cost cents on the dollar to manufacture and make.  We shop around to find a better price.  Most of us are on a budget.

Would I rather get a complete kit, yes.  Do I always have the money to spend on those, nope. Will I buy a part to complete a rare kit, yes.  Will I buy a part from a recent kit that will cost me 3x what the kit is worth, nope.

Are there people that are willing to pay more for a single part, than find the complete kit and pay less, yes.  Bless their little hearts. 

Edited December 15, 2015 by iceman-555

[Rob Hall]

Those guys can be a Godsend for those of us who may need that particular hard to find part for a kit we may already have.

I have a Johan 1967 Plymouth Fury kit that was perfect in every way, except for one missing hub cap.

If not for one of those "unscrupulous" sellers, it would still be a tricycle.

I see no difference as to whether a seller wants to sell whole kits or just parts.

If there's a market for them, which there is, why would you not sell them?

 

Steve

One of those 'part-em-out' sellers enabled me to get a number of Johan '65 Chrysler 300 parts that aren't available from the Modelhaus (where I normally source parts for my 'used' kits)...

[Junkman]

That old kits, parts, or builders are expensive, has always been this way and something I accept as a collector. Show me something about this hobby that is cheap.
I dislike the practice of disassembling complete builders to offer the individual components, since it is impossible to win all the auctions to get it complete again.
Nothing wrong with parting incomplete models and selling the components, though.

[StevenGuthmiller]

So was mine, an AMT 1970 Dodge Coronet Super Bee. A FUBAR'ed paint job by moi. I never buy built-up models. i have my own problems. Why would I pay for someone else's?    

For those questioning the veracity of brittle plastic stories, I submit for your perusal the following:

Problem Plastics Checklist

 

I don't doubt the veracity of whether or not plastic can become brittle over time, everything deteriorates with age, including me.

I've just not seen it myself.

I've bought probably 40 kits in the past 3 years, all produced prior to 1969, most of them prior to '61, & I have seen no deterioration that I can detect.

I guess my point is, if brittle plastic is the main reason that you would be dissuaded from buying vintage kits, I don't think I'd worry about it a whole lot.

Or at least it would be very low on my radar.

 

Steve

[Rob Hall]

I don't doubt the veracity of whether or not plastic can become brittle over time, everything deteriorates with age, including me.

I've just not seen it myself.

I've bought probably 40 kits in the past 3 years, all produced prior to 1969, most of them prior to '61, & I have seen no deterioration that I can detect.

I guess my point is, if brittle plastic is the main reason that you would be dissuaded from buying vintage kits, I don't think I'd worry about it a whole lot.

Or at least it would be very low on my radar.

 

Steve

I've bought maybe 250 vintage builtups over the last 15 years, the only ones I've brittle plastic issues w/ are mid 60s Johan Mopars..

[SfanGoch]

The age of a kit really isn't an issue. I've got a pile of Hawk kits which are older than me and they build up just dandy. The key word is "kit". I buy kits on evilBay. What I won't buy are ancient, painted built-up models. The chemicals in strippers and other products used by us to remove old paint can and do react adversely with plastics, both new and more so with old, to some extent. The quality of styrene also comes into play here. I don't like the idea of paying 10-40 bucks for a crapped out, badly painted glue bomb that might break apart in the wrong places after treatment in a solvent. If I really need a part(s) for a specific kit, I'd rather buy a complete, unbuilt duplicate kit and cast the required piece(s). But, that's me. Your mileage may vary.  

[StevenGuthmiller]

The age of a kit really isn't an issue. I've got a pile of Hawk kits which are older than me and they build up just dandy. The key word is "kit". I buy kits on evilBay. What I won't buy are ancient, painted built-up models. The chemicals in strippers and other products used by us to remove old paint can and do react adversely with plastics, both new and more so with old, to some extent. The quality of styrene also comes into play here. I don't like the idea of paying 10-40 bucks for a crapped out, badly painted glue bomb that might break apart in the wrong places after treatment in a solvent. If I really need a part(s) for a specific kit, I'd rather buy a complete, unbuilt duplicate kit and cast the required piece(s). But, that's me. Your mileage may vary.  

Fair enough.

I prefer to find unpainted, unbuilt kits as well, but depending on subject matter, that can become cost prohibitive very quickly.

I don't buy a lot of old painted kits, but I don't let the paint stop me if the deal is right.

Some of my favorite restorations started out as painted kits.

 

Steve  

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2015 by StevenGuthmiller

[Nova-ss]

so true..that ELO stripping product..to me and my experience makes plastic brittle and easily broken.I love building old plastic. .its a blast..but what makes old plastic be worth gold..is its old plastic.I to would rather use plastic as well.but its people wanting as much money as they can get for what they have..its money.money..money.and people willing willing to pay it.we want old plastic. .sellers know it.I wished that model company's would sell any tree's you wanted from any kit with tooling that is still use able. ..there missing money they could be getting..oh well...Chris 

[lordairgtar]

 

I watch a lot of stuff on eBay and if you keep watching for deals and they do turn up! Others are shocking. I just watched this sell!! http://www.ebay.com/itm/321940684568?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I have two of these and if they are selling for this I may be listing one.

 

I'd love one, but I ain't paying what that guy got for his. I'm glad he sold it to a guy who thought it was worth that, but it ain't me. Especially since it isn't that accurate. I mean if you want to build one, that's only way to go but the bumpers and the side window shape bothered me. I owned two 1/1s...a Skylark Custom and a Special DeLuxe.

 

[Sport Suburban]

I'd love one, but I ain't paying what that guy got for his. I'm glad he sold it to a guy who thought it was worth that, but it ain't me. Especially since it isn't that accurate. I mean if you want to build one, that's only way to go but the bumpers and the side window shape bothered me. I owned two 1/1s...a Skylark Custom and a Special DeLuxe.

 

I agree that it is not that accurate especially the bumpers. Perry's kit is much nicer than the R&R kit. I had that one also and sold it. My best friend had a 69 Skylark Custom with a 69 GS hood. I would love to build a 69 GS 400 convertible someday. That is why I bought them.

[lordairgtar]

I agree that it is not that accurate especially the bumpers. Perry's kit is much nicer than the R&R kit. I had that one also and sold it. My best friend had a 69 Skylark Custom with a 69 GS hood. I would love to build a 69 GS 400 convertible someday. That is why I bought them.

WOW. Did not know R&R made one. I know well enough to NOT consider them. Thanks.