plumbing.....air lines and such

[tbill]

this may have been covered before, and i may have even asked it before.......but here it goes,

 

what size material would you use for air lines and such? and what type of material would you use?

i thought i might try to start detailing a bit more on my rig building, and my build off truck is a good starting point i suppose.

 

so, what're you using?

 

thanks, tom

[gatorincebu]

 

  Tom,

         i am not really one to advise on this subject .As I normally do not do the detail plumbing .  So my advise is based on things I have read.

  Many people use various test nylon fishing line. And really fine solder, bell wire is in my opinion a bit large.But I guess it can be used for some things. When you get down to figuring what size a 1/4 " line is  in scale it gets pretty small .

 So I would go with what looks right.

 Also you might try to check the Dutch Model site,See if they have the old articles from Truck Model World. As Howard Whitehead did a series on just that subject with diagrams on how to for plumbing a truck.

 

  If you do try it have fun with it !

 

   Be Well

    Gator

[Brinx]

I think its good to revisit topics from time to time Tom. Here's my recent attempts, starting with what most would probably consider the industry standard.

1) Speaker wire from Radio Shack( the 3-pack of red, black and green). The stuff will hold a coil, but I feel it doesn't have the right "lay" to it aft of the pogo stick, more so that it is rigid and does not have a natural droop or drape to it.

2) The RS speaker wire again. This time, just the outer casing. This is great for the old-school, straight airlines but again, the stuff has a memory (from being on the spool) so it also lacks that "draped" look coming off the stick (maybe warming it and re-working it to the right shape, haven't tried that yet).

3) Telephone wire: this stuff is thinner in gauge and will hold a nice tight coil but looks a bit small in diameter.

4) Ear bud wire: Has a good diameter and seems to have a decent drape (in longer lengths) but is probably one of the more expensive options ($ versus usable length).

5) Paracord: This stuff is pretty cheap, looks the right diameter and comes in every color you could possibly think of plus three more. The only problem is it looks more like a fabric covered hose (I'd guestimate around 5/8" in 1:1 as I tried out as a 1" booster line on a fire truck reel and it came off looking too small).

 

Edit: I assumed we are talking the service hoses and glad hands

 

My conclusion, I tend to go with option #2, using the black wire casing (seems easiest to remove from the wire) and make three, old-school, straight lines, great for our older stuff but probably not what we're wanting for the more modern IH's and Petes.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Brinx

[KJ790]

I buy coated wire from McMaster-Carr. You can select the outside diameter and the color, which I like. Since it is wire, it is flexible and stays where I put it. I drill a small hole in whatever is getting the hose, then I insert the end of the wire with a little glue. I am curious to see what others use.

Edited January 7, 2016 by KJ790

[tbill]

thanks guys. 

 

Mike, i am talking about all the plumbing that would be on the frame, along with the service lines and glad hands, just wanting to add a little something to my builds, not go crazy with it, but don't want garden hoses running everywhere, lol.

[Jim B]

This might help: http://public.fotki.com/modeltrucks25thscale/model_magazine_articles/car_modeller/cm03_sept_1990_truc/  Or it just might muddy the waters a little more!

[10thumbs]

Tom, I'm interested in finding out something along these lines too.  I read recently an article somewhere that air lines (maybe even in the link James just posted above) are good for 1:25 trucks in 0.35mm diameter wire.  I don't know what this size is in inches, but it's the same size as I use for spark plug cables on a 1:25 car motor.  This comes out to 8mm in 1:1.  Good for me at least, I have a 100 yard roll of the stuff.  I'd like to see 1:1 pics of the lines and exactly how they're placed in the frame rails.  Haven't seen them before.

[Aaronw]

The various hard airlines running along the frame look to me to be 1/4 to 3/8 inch, the trailer lines 1/2-3/4" (outside diameter based on eyeball measurements), the coiled nylon being smaller, the rubber hose style being larger.

Wire of various sizes (core only, not including the insulation) 30 gauge 0.01" (scale 1/4"), 24 gauge 0.0201" (scale 1/2"), 20 gauge 0.032" (scale 3/4"), 18 gauge .0403" (scale 1"). Individual strands in common small size wires (speaker wire, cheap extension cords etc) is typically 30 gauge or smaller.

[Petetrucker07]

Micheal, your plug wire material would be too small. It would work for lines on the motor and air lines in frame rails.

[Pete J.]

I'm not a big rig builder so I can't speak to scale or specific sizes but I will say this. Some people get all wrapped around the axle when it comes to "not to scale" To me, and I have competed and won at a national level and it is all about making it look good to the eye. Frankly, the eye is a tricky thing. When you view things from a distance of 10 or 20 feet, they look really different than they do at one or two feet.

Additionally the manufacturers take certain "liberties" with scale so just because you used a micrometer to measure something and it is exactly to scale, it may stand out like a sore thumb because the surrounding area of the model is not quite to scale. Having said that scale sizes are a good starting point. It you have access to a big rig, then you can measure them, but I would think most hose would be 1/2", 3/4", and inch and a half. You can scale them from there.

Second trap the model builders tend to fall in is if they are modeling a hose or a pipe, they want the center hollow. This is just not necessary and can make detailing almost impossible. Yes, it is possible to get little tiny hoses, but to get them to hang or lay properly and look like the real deal is a mess. Solid wires are the best choice whether used for hoses or lines.

Since you are starting out, a good cheap source of wire is Radio Shack or a crafts store like Micheal's or Hobby lobby. The location within Radio Shack is obvious but I have found a plethora of wires in the craft stores in the Bead making aisle. Lots of sizes and colors of soft wire. Some with insulation other bare metal.

One last and important tip when using wires. Always straighten it. As they come off the coil, they have a bend, no matter how big it is. There are a lot of ways to try and straighten wire such as rolling it, etc. The easiest method for me is to get two sets of smooth jawed pliers, grip each end of the wire and pull the pliers in opposite direction. On a lot of wires you will feel it give a little as it stretches. You don't have to stretch it a lot and in some cases if may not give, but that pressure applied to each end will straighten it right out. Then the only bends in it are ones you put it.

Good luck and remember, This is art not engineering(well there is some of that). What we make should look right to the eye. I have never seen a contest judge come to the table with a set of calipers but I have hear them eyeball it and say, "That doesn't look right"

Edited January 8, 2016 by Pete J.
formating failed

[10thumbs]

Clayton, air lines in the frame rails is what I meant.  I checked out gauge to millimeter and 0.32mm is 28 gauge. 

I guess  the real question should be then, what size are the air lines on a real truck?

Can anyone go and measure their 1:1 truck?

Pete J., I agree.  I recently had some one get their feathers all ruffled because I used tubing for a frame they thought was too thick.  I used a larger type diameter tube because the real 1:1 tube in exact scale was way too puny and weak looking.  Scale is not always good.  But then too I don't like seeing spark plug wires that have a size that look more like a garden hose.

Does anyone know the real size of air lines?

[Foggy 2]

Hi Gator and all, Foggy 2 here, the Truck Model World articles referred to truck lines are as follows in these references.

TMW Vol 150 pages 30 thru 33 - this is for engine wiring and piping.

TMW Vol 151 pages 22 thru 25 - this includes all of the truck and trailer link ups.

TMW Vol 152 pages 18 thru 21 - this is for the Susie connections and how to make them

These I must admit are predominantly for European trucks but the systems are very similar I think between Europe and the USA.

They do give what type of material to use and colours Etc.

I hope this can help, I do have them scanned but the files are too large for this media.

Rgds,

Foggy 2.    

 

[10thumbs]

@Foggy 2, you're killing me.  Can't you do a sneak peek and tell us what size the hard lines are?  LOL.

Michael

[Force]

I usually eyeball these things, if it looks right I'll go for it even if the gauge of wire is correct or not...on model kits everything doesn't look right in the correct scale and sometimes you have to exaggerate a bit to get it to look right.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Force

[Foggy 2]

Hi All,

Here goes, Fuel lines are .0075mm wire - a US Firm has this wire in 3' lengths available in a number of colours, it's Detail Master, I do not have an address.

Flexi pipes for fuel lines is fishing line 0.25mm - Solid injector pipes are brass rod 0.25mm.

Battery and starter cables are 0.6mm to 1.0mm plastic wire.

Air brake hoses are 0.5mm plastic wire.

Susie connector lines are best made from soft solder wrapped around a plastic tube then painted in any colour needed - the solder will hold a sag in the line better than plastic will.

And last of all the flexi pipes of the air intake system I have found are best made from those straws you get at kids parties that have the flexi part mid way down the straw, you just cut where you need to.

 

Rgds,

Foggy 2. 

[JTRACING]

I like to use 30awg wire for most everything, I find its best to be a bit undersized than going with something to large and out of scale.i buy on amazon comes in lots of colors and of course you can paint it also.

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B006C4AZKS/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_16?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB

for oil hoses on the engines I find the cheap earbud headphone wire is about the right size.

 

[10thumbs]

I'd like to update this topic.  I just found this site.  Beautiful restorations, but also good views of lots of lines running out back.

http://www.kustomtruck.com/restoration-3.html

 

[RipVan]

On 1/8/2016 at 12:17 PM, Foggy 2 said:

Hi Gator and all, Foggy 2 here, the Truck Model World articles referred to truck lines are as follows in these references.

TMW Vol 150 pages 30 thru 33 - this is for engine wiring and piping.

TMW Vol 151 pages 22 thru 25 - this includes all of the truck and trailer link ups.

TMW Vol 152 pages 18 thru 21 - this is for the Susie connections and how to make them

These I must admit are predominantly for European trucks but the systems are very similar I think between Europe and the USA.

They do give what type of material to use and colours Etc.

I hope this can help, I do have them scanned but the files are too large for this media.

Rgds,

Foggy 2.    

 

Do you have the dates for these volume numbers?  Back issues online don't list by volume.

 

[Foggy 2]

Hi All,

Perhaps I should clarify my earlier posting. Where I mention Volume I should have put issue as TMW just add on their next issue with the next number and no volume number, so what you are looking for are issue 150 pages 30 thru 33 and so forth.

Sorry if I caused any confusion guys.

[RipVan]

The back issues of Truck Model World are sold by date, not by issue number. I can find no reference as to when issues 150,151 & 152 were published.

 

 

[dshue76]

I use the wiring from an old Play Sation 2 controller cord for trailer air and electric supply. The insulation diameter is .035". 1 inch in 1/25 scale is .040" meaning .035" is a scale 7/8"

[dshue76]

Also don't be afraid to use solid brass, steel, and aluminum wire from companies like K&S Precision Metals. It comes in many diameters and the thinner diameters works very well for wires and small diameter hoses. It bends easily, holds its shape, and is easily painted. .015" brass wire works very well for representing 3/8" air lines, even if they need to be coiled.

For tubes and hoses I use,  .010" material for 1/4", .012" material for 5/16", .015 material for 3/8", .020" material for 1/2", .025" material for 5/8", .030" material for 3/4", .035" material for 7/8" and .040" material for 1".

Fuel Injection tubes I use .012" brass to represent 5/16" lines.

Small air lines I use .015" brass to represent 3/8" lines

Large air lines I use .020" brass to represent 1/2" lines

For fuel supply lines I use .025 or .030" to represent 5/8" or 3/4" hoses.

For Hydraulics I use .080" material to represent 2" suction hose, and .040" material for 1" pressure and return hose.

For electrical wiring I use all sorts of material, braided fishing line, monofilament fishing line,  sewing thread, brass wire(this includes stranded conductor wires from small wires) 

Like I said in a previous post I use the cord wires from a Play Station 2 controller for trailer supplies. It's outside diameter is .035" But on a wire that small the individual stranded conductor wires are .006", a few of these strung together make for a convincing wire harness. .006" in 1/25 scale is around 3/16".

I'm all for eyeballing but plug wires the size of heater hoses bug me. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by dshue76

[RipVan]

On 2/6/2019 at 11:02 AM, dshue76 said:

I use the wiring from an old Play Sation 2 controller cord for trailer air and electric supply. The insulation diameter is .035". 1 inch in 1/25 scale is .040" meaning .035" is a scale 7/8"

 

That looks perfect.  Closest I could find was .039 PTFE wire, but it's stranded and I'm not sure yet if it will hold the coil.

 

 

[dshue76]

On 2/7/2019 at 11:42 PM, RipVan said:

 

That looks perfect.  Closest I could find was .039 PTFE wire, but it's stranded and I'm not sure yet if it will hold the coil.

 

 

 

That is stranded and it holds a coil nicely yet still sags. Years ago I bought pre coiled trailer supplies from spaulding  trading and shipping and they were solid core wire and much too stiff. 

 

[RipVan]

I'm familiar with Spaulding - one of the only companies that Howard allows to sell his KFS stuff.  I think they mark it up way too much.