American 1:25 scale four door sedan and wagon promos and kits

[Motor City]

This topic started as 4-door SEDANS and wagons and then people started adding 4-door HARDTOPS.  Jo-Han made the 98 4-door hardtops from '56-'59, the '60 98 2-door hardtop, followed by the '61-'62 Super 88 4-door hardtop, and ended with the '63 Starfire hardtop and convertible.

[blizzy63]

38 minutes ago, Motor City said:

This topic started as 4-door SEDANS and wagons and then people started adding 4-door HARDTOPS.  Jo-Han made the 98 4-door hardtops from '56-'59, the '60 98 2-door hardtop, followed by the '61-'62 Super 88 4-door hardtop, and ended with the '63 Starfire hardtop and convertible.

Sorry...I thought it was all about 4 doors. I saw the original list and I saw a lot of 4-door hardtops in there.

Even the factories still called their 4-door hardtops "sedans" (e.g., 1959 Chevrolet Impala Sport Sedan).

[Back in high school in the '70s, we differentiated the body type differences with the terms "hardtop" and "post", as in "2-door hardtop" and "2-door post".]

Edited June 11, 2020 by blizzy63

[Casey]

1 hour ago, blizzy63 said:

Sorry...I thought it was all about 4 doors. I saw the original list and I saw a lot of 4-door hardtops in there.

Guilty of same. Considering how much less represented all four-doors are, I doubt a separate topic for only 4-door hardtops would stimulate much discussion.

Still shocked this even exists:

[blizzy63]

2 hours ago, Casey said:

 

Side comment on your pic:

Cool! Funny, around 1982 when I was about 18, I test drove a gold '61 Olds Super 88 4-dr. HT that was for sale in my neighbourhood for $200. There was a little rust in the door corners and the engine stalled when you made a right-hand turn. I loved the car but that big 394 cu. in. Rocket V8 scared me when I thought of how much I would be spending on gas at 37 cents/litre [about US$1.00 per US gallon].

I do wish someone would reproduce these Jo-Han/X-El promos again!

[Motor City]

I thought the topic became more interesting with the addition of 4-door hardtops.  In any case, not everyone wants to see 2-door hardtop and convertible models (except in 1:1)!  I recently picked up a milk truck from what had been a local dairy in the Detroit area.  AMT used to make a Divco milk truck (the Divco factory was in Detroit).  I don't know who made this:

 

 

 

[Brian Austin]

This old Ebay listing claims the milk truck promo toy was made by the Anthony E. Roberts, Corp. of Chicago in 1956.

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/1956-IRA-WILSON-DAIRY-Milk-Delivery-TRUCK-TOY-BANK-Detroit-NOS-Plastic-Rubber-/183047688137

 

 

[Brian Austin]

If you want to broaden your search, there were numerous plastic toys between 1:25 and 1:20 scale made in Hong Kong.  I have a Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow in good shape until it fell to the (carpeted) floor and now I think it's missing a turn signal or such.

Speaking of Rolls-Royces has, Hubley's own Silver Cloud been mentioned already?

There were numerous four-door Jaguar plastic toys made in Hong Kong in 1:25-1:20, and then there's Tamiya's Mk2 kits in 1:24.

Much smaller, but I'll just mention the nifty little F&F plastic cereal premium line included some sedans and wagons.

[Motor City]

Hi Brian,

Thank you very much for the information.  I really appreciate it! 

I didn't know Ebay listings would be out there for more than a few months.

Yes, F&F made quite a variety of cereal cars.  I remember getting a crude purple '69 Cougar in some cereal.  I ended up throwing it out or donating it to the Salvation Army.  I'm not sure if they made that one.

[Casey]

Guess we can add this all-new kit to the list:

[JS23U]

Don't know if all these were mentioned, very much and cool info in this thread...

61 Valiant promo is a four door sedan, as opposed to the SMP kit, which is a 2 door hardtop.

62 to 65 Rambler Classic are 4d Sedan, the 66 is an Ambassador 2 door hardtop. All are promos. (Ambassador kits started 67). The 62 was available as an annual kit and got reissued as a taxi snap kit later, with wrong interior. Typical of so many of the later Johan reissues.

The Cross Country wagons were made up until 1966, as  promos.

[stavanzer]

AMT's 1970 Ford will hit the market again, this time in Taxi form. So right now there are at least 4 AMT Sedan/Wagon kits out there. The '78 Dodge Monaco, the '70 Ford, the '67 Supernatural, and the '63 Chevy Wagon. A decent selection of virgin plastic.

[the other Mike S.]

Can you include hearses/ambulances in this discussion?  The Johan '66 Cadillac and the AMT/Polar Lights "Ghostbusters" '59 Cadillac.

Edited April 4, 2021 by the other Mike S.

[A modeler named mike]

I looked but didn't see these 2 lindberg kits or this US Airfix kit on the list. Both are not promos but they are in kit form.  

[64Comet404]

On 6/11/2020 at 5:55 PM, Motor City said:

I thought the topic became more interesting with the addition of 4-door hardtops.  In any case, not everyone wants to see 2-door hardtop and convertible models (except in 1:1)!  I recently picked up a milk truck from what had been a local dairy in the Detroit area.  AMT used to make a Divco milk truck (the Divco factory was in Detroit).  I don't know who made this:

 

 

 

And in a stunning bit of historical trivia about cars and car models, one of Ira Wilson's sons was Asa 'Ace' Wilson, who was the owner of Royal Pontiac!

According to some stories, when Ace died, Ira refused to sell the dealership to Jim Wangers because Wangers was Jewish.

[Motor City]

I didn't know his son owned Royal.  Royal Pontiac: The original GM performance parts dealer - Hagerty Media

It became Jim Fresard Pontiac and is now this:

[paul alflen]

Motor City (JIM Skelly) I believe that Ira Wilson owned the Wilson barn property in Livonia, Mi at the corner of West Chicago and Middlebelt in Livonia, mi. The Wilson barn is still there and does feature a car show there in the Summer months.

[paul alflen]

Ok boys let's get this thing back on the main topic now!

[Motor City]

1 hour ago, paul alflen said:

Motor City (JIM Skelly) I believe that Ira Wilson owned the Wilson barn property in Livonia, Mi at the corner of West Chicago and Middlebelt in Livonia, mi. The Wilson barn is still there and does feature a car show there in the Summer months.

that's correct on it being owned by Ira; the car show has a lot of street rods and customs

Edited September 21, 2023 by Motor City

[mikos]

On 6/10/2020 at 9:21 PM, blizzy63 said:

Side comment on your pic:

Cool! Funny, around 1982 when I was about 18, I test drove a gold '61 Olds Super 88 4-dr. HT that was for sale in my neighbourhood for $200. There was a little rust in the door corners and the engine stalled when you made a right-hand turn. I loved the car but that big 394 cu. in. Rocket V8 scared me when I thought of how much I would be spending on gas at 37 cents/litre [about US$1.00 per US gallon].

I do wish someone would reproduce these Jo-Han/X-El promos again!

Me too.  However, you will run into the same worn out excuses of why it couldn’t, wouldn’t and shouldn’t happen.

1. The tooling is long gone forever destroyed and missing.  Even if some of it was found, the tooling won’t work in the modern machines of today.  Well, cloning the kits/promos pretty much throws that argument out of the window.  Round2 is actually using the technology on some of their reissues, ‘63 Nova wagon and the OBS trucks.  So, it can be done and is being done right now.

2. There is absolutely no market for them.  No one would buy them.  We need more Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers.  Well, there is a market for them.  Look at the bidding wars on Ebay or how many desire to have them back again on the various forums.  Yeah, maybe kids won’t desire them, but this hobby doesn’t really cater to kids anymore.   It’s a niche market with 5k or less production runs.  I’m sure there would enough older X’ers and boomers who would want this stuff and buy them to make it marketable to invest in.  

3. Complex licensing issues.  Well, if they’re doing the diecast stuff, which has a lot of the same subjects that we desire in 1/25th scale plastic, it probably can be done.

4.  Johan is dead, dead, dead.  Not really, but many want it to be for obvious reasons one of which is the big collector market for those old Johan kits and promos.  Heaven forbid if they ever cloned the ‘70 Coupe Deville and offered it again as a reissued glue kit or a Craftsman style promo kit for a $30-35 price point.  I think the universe would collapse. lol!

Just my $.03.

 

 

[Brian Austin]

You're better off buying a vintage JoHan/X-El model or modern resin reproduction than waiting for new production of these subjects.

[dino246gt]

I have these 2 that can be built stock, curbsides:

 

[Luc Janssens]

2 hours ago, dino246gt said:

I have these 2 that can be built stock, curbsides:

 

Remember those, was very exited when seeing them advertised in some German hobby magazine, so bought a copy of the NYPD version when visiting the famous Danhausen hobby store Aachen, then opening the box.....I felt well....like conned.

if the tool allows it IMHO Round-2 could do well ejecting Plymouth versions of their Monaco tool....but said that I'm good cus have a conversion kit from a Portuguese company to turn a goon kit to a NYPD cruiser.

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Luc Janssens

[Daddyfink]

Did I miss where this was or was not mentioned? 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Daddyfink

[bobthehobbyguy]

On 9/21/2023 at 12:36 PM, mikos said:

3. Complex licensing issues.  Well, if they’re doing the diecast stuff, which has a lot of the same subjects that we desire in 1/25th scale plastic, it probably can be done.

The plastic models and the die-cast are two different markets. The die-cast volumes put the plastic kit volumes to shame.

It boils down to the cost of the licensing being spread over those volumes. 

[mikos]

2 hours ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

The plastic models and the die-cast are two different markets. The die-cast volumes put the plastic kit volumes to shame.

It boils down to the cost of the licensing being spread over those volumes. 

Right, but is there a distinction between the two when you want to make a replica?  You get the licensing for doing a certain Cadillac model then want to make a plastic model kit of the same car as well.  Would that require a whole new licensing agreement to do a plastic model?  If not, you can spread out the licensing costs by doing different versions of the same car in different product lines like matchbox type cars, diecast and plastic model kits.