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Bantam Fuel Altered - New pics 1-7

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Like I said...read through all the rules and minutes of the NHRA safety and rules meetings of the period surrounding Garlits' little problem, and I'm sure you'll find exactly the REAL reason funnies aren't rear-engined today.

I honestly don't know. I'm only making logical guesses. And remember...humans don't always do what's logical...even NHRA rule makers... or draw the right inferences from one set of facts and correctly apply those to another one.;)

 

Edited by Ace-Garageguy

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The car in the build thread wasn't the only rear-engined funny, either. This Javelin was run By Doug Thorley...the header guy. There were others.

83b7bffa2ffdc62bbb6ca42289574ed2.jpg

How 'bout rear-engine, all-wheel drive?     gg.jpg

Edited by Ace-Garageguy

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Ahhh...maybe the answer is in this article, that opens with: "With Don Garlits perfecting the rear engine top fuel dragster, the rear engine funny car should be the next nitro class to dominate the 1320, right?"

http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=228621&Filter=Year2011

And the answer is...nobody ever got one to work right. Like I said earlier " I DO know that racing is a lot about winning, and if the thing... handled weird...nobody would jump on the bandwagon and say "let's build 'em all this way from now on". B)

And my sincere apologies to the OP for letting this go so far off topic...but...as a result of your posting this most fascinating build, I've learned a whole lot more about the history of drag racing. For that I thank you, sincerely. :D

 

 

Edited by Ace-Garageguy

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Awesome work, how do you do this? Do you or would you do a video showing the process?

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Thank you Tom and Dave. 

Roger, Unfortunately, other than documenting how I made the girdle with a few pics, I never thought to video how I made them.  Steps are straightforward, machined the groove in the girdle, put TIX flux in the channel, placed the letters (tedious but the flux helps to hold them in place) then took shavings of solder and placed it among the letters. Heated the sides of the girdle with a torch and "voila".....hope that helps. 

Harry,  Bill answered your question I believe.  His answers confirmed what I knew of the subject. The NHRA was also concerned over lost fan appeal over the simple aspect that the funny cars were to represent, in spirit,  cars you could buy from the car manufacturers.  Obviously, there were no rear-engine mustangs. So, the marketing aspect probably played into the decision as well as the car manufacturers had a vested interest in sponsoring their cars. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday right?  My favorite explanation is that Garlits hit upon a winning design that was becoming all dominant.  Racers being what they are, why not funny's too.  The reasons for the lack of success of this design in funny cars is based soundly in physics and engineering, which I'd prefer to SKIP at this point since the cars are now banned irregardless.

Bill, thanks for efforts & info to explain that to Harry.  It should benefit anyone that wants to learn more about that particular era in drag racing and funny cars in particular.

Cheers, tim

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Concerning the rear engine/front engine debate, I was an active follower of drag racing from this period. A few thoughts.

Before the rear engined dragster, the front engined cars faced severely declining popularity compared to funny cars. The fans filled the stands for funnys but did not for dragsters. There was even an article in Car Craft about the death of the top fuel class. Rear engined cars shot new life into the dragster class. If it hadn't been for that, the dragster class would have died. Already in the early 70's, many of the top top fuel drivers were running two cars, rails for national events and funnys for booked shows. 

There were several rear engined funny cars. Typically most were created by bucks down racers who were trying to create a better mouse trap to even the playing field. Rear engined cars were not highly successful. Jim Dunn had arguably the most successful car but after one or two seasons he went back to a front motored car. The reason most likely was to go to something that required fewer specialized parts. Others tried to follow with much less successful and sometimes disastrous results. 

In the late '90's, funny car performance was approaching top fuelers again. This was the era of the Bernstein Batmobile. There was some concern that unless a performance differential remained between the two classes, they would merge into one. At this same time, John Force announced he was considering a rear engined car. Force at the time was the dominant power in F/C, although he didn't have his current sized stable. To prevent Force from doing this and potentially closing the performance gap even more with fuelers, NHRA outlawed rear engined funny cars. They also enacted in this time frame a minimum wheelbase in top fuel to prevent funny cars from crossing over to top fuel.

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Mock-ups of the car. The car will sit a scale 4" off the front spoiler lip YET TO BE ADDED.....and I'll take about 1/8" off the aluminum spoilers on the back.  The ride height just in front of the rear wheel well will be 9" in scale.  I'll adjust my jig for the new build and start by fabricating the Halibrand rear end, trans and Donovan while drawing up the chassis.  Not sure if I'll do a solid drop axle or independent front suspension, I'll decide when I get the chassis drawn up. On the body, in addition to the front spoiler extension, I'm considering a few other modifications, in no particular order: front fender "blisters" for additional tire clearance, canard wings on the back half of the car, but they'll probably interfere with the headers, rear-window venting similar to what Chris has done on his Vega funny and maybe extending the lower side valances of the car ever so slightly.  The hardest part of the body work is done with the extension of the wheel base when I move the wheel wells back.  There will be plenty of room for the driver.  cheers, tim

REAR ENGINED MUSTANG MOCK-UPS 016

IN THIS NEXT PIC, PLEASE NOTE THAT THE ANGLE I TOOK THIS PHOTO THE FRONT APPEARS TO SIT TOO HIGH, IT DOESN'T. 

REAR ENGINED MUSTANG MOCK-UPS 040

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Tim... That is looking real nice. and I am looking forward to when you get going on the frame on this bad boy. It is going to be killer. Nice Stance so far

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I concur 100% on the canards Tim. I'm a big fan. Not for functionality, that subject's had a piano and an anvil dropped on it, then blew up. Canards are all about the look. They are just badd lookin'.

I'm also in agreeance on the rear spoiler, although I could have lived with it.

One more thing on the canards. Here's a pic of my Jungle Jim Charger phantom build, which is one of the correct ways to do it, in addition to putting them on the rear quarter panel. Following that is a pic of the wrong way to do it.

Keep on rockin' Tim.

2007-01-23008.thumb.jpg.2633d24a7eaf8627

mag.thumb.jpg.7358643f45ee530b4590141cbc

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looking fantastic so far.

 

I remeber seeing a mustang bodied funnycar. Where the engine sat in it sideways

I want say it was a Kallita built car??????

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Chrismans mustang

Which then became John Force's Night Stalker sidewinder funny car.

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Looks great Tim. I like the stance and the wheels.

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Delete

Edited by Draggon

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Thanks everyone for following.  I have a "favor" to ask at this point regarding this new thread.  Let's leave the history of drag racing out of it.  It's not that I don't mind the info and sharing but I'm just building a phantom funny from what would be 71 or 72'  as a "coulda' been.  Not trying to start up a debate on front v. rear driven cars.  I appreciate your consideration in advance.  I DO appreciate your interest in the subject and realize that you simply wanted to share info, especially when it came to Harry's original questions.  But the thread has gotten side tracked.

Going to experiment on machining some things for the quick change rear end today.  It will be either a Halibrand or Frankland depending on how I make out today.  Cheers

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Tim....I will he anxiously awaiting what you come up with on your end mill for the rear end. Can't wait to see the awesome machining work.

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Definitely looking forward to more on this....because we know what you're capable of

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Thank you Chris & Dave.....promise not to drop this one.  Today I went forward with machining the quick change rear end. I was trying to choose between the typical Halibrand or a Frankland.  I really liked the rear gear cover back in the day on the Frankland but I wasn't sure if I could machine it. The tricky part was continuing the fins on the back of the cover up and over the top and bottom like the original.  Took a day to get it done but it's the most visual piece on the rear and I wanted to get it as correct as I could. It's a shade over 1 cm.  I've got about a dozen more pieces to make for the rear to call it done.  The grooves you see on the side of the rear end are for .8mm brass tubes that I'll solder in to replicate the real one.  The fins are .22mm thick as an fyi.  cheers, tim

REAR ENGINE MUSTANG START of REAR END 023

REAR ENGINE MUSTANG START of REAR END 054

REAR ENGINE MUSTANG START of REAR END 087

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Tim... Holy Smokes that back plate is a work of art already. .22 mm thick fins... You are saying that the fins are .009" thick? Dang that is tiny and I am super impressed. I can't wait to see the next parts you make for this. Keep up the great work!! Glad you are back at the bench.

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Nice work on the quick change, Tim. I'm partial to the Halibrand, but there would not be much to machine on it, so I can see why you went with the Frankland. I just think it's cool your using a qc at all! I'm enjoying following your work again. 

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Another masterpiece is rising up.

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