NNL shows - what is the norm?

[vamach1]

After attending two recent NNL shows, I've made a few observations.

Like full size cars shows, attendees like to line up at the door waiting for the show to start.  The tables fill up quickly with models and votes start to be cast within an hour or two.  The cameras come out and many pictures are taken and later posted on line.  So, with 3-4 hours left to go, all that is left is to wait for the raffle tickets to be called and awards given out.  Speaking of raffle tickets, the usual process of giving out tickets and calling them one by one is a waste of everyone's time.  Why not just put the numbers zero through nine in a box, cup, jar or whatever.  Draw the first single number.  EVERYONE with a ticket with that last digit of their ticket is a winner.  That means 10% of the ticket holders would be a winner.  After the initial rush, wait a half hour and pull and call the next number and give out more prizes if there are any left.  Repeat the process until the prizes are gone.  You don't need a white board, people constantly checking a ticket board, and someone calling number after number after number after number.  The idea is so simple I cannot think of any reason it would not work.  If you saw the whiteboard at the most recent NNL show you would know exactly what I mean - they almost ran out of room for dozens of numbers.  

My second idea is to presell entrant tickets and have priority entry.  If the show costs $15 at the door, presell tickets for $20.  Anyone buying a pre sale ticket would be allowed to enter fifteen minutes before people other people paying the day of the show.    This would benefit the handicapped or anyone that has the desire to be there when the door opens but perhaps in physically unable to stand in line for an hour or more.  The people without presale tickets but may not like it but no one makes them stand outside for an hour - they do it because so many others do the same thing.  If some of those same people would show up a half hour after the doors open - there would be NO line and they would not really miss anything.

NNL showpromoters - are you listening?  

What are people's thought about what is the rush to get into a show and set up right away and also please comment of my raffle idea.

 

[High octane]

You obviously have never worked at putting on an NNL show. It takes a LOT of work and a lot of set up not only by the host club, but other clubs setting up "club displays." With that in mind, there is NO time for "early birds" or pre-sell tickets. As for the raffle, not everyone is listening to the PA system as they may be setting up their models on the tables or talking to friends or new acquaintances. Seems like it is easier for ticket holders to check the board for winning ticket numbers at their convenience.

[vamach1]

My suggestions are to actually to reduce the number of people needed of the volunteer hours needed the day of the show.  I expected some responses defending the current processes because it is very difficult to make any changes no matter how much they may make the process more efficient for the organizers and spectators.  I've been involved in putting on car shows for 30 years and often encounter the "we have always done it that way" syndrome.  Hopefully some other modelers  will chime in.  I realize the set up time is very time consuming.  Whoever came up with the idea to sell the tickets to people in line before the show opens (at NNL East) should be applauded.  In the years prior I'd guess it may have taken an hour to get in the door because of the long line of people that had to pay and pick up the goodie bag before entering.  It's ideas like this are very simple but make the process so much smoother for the paying customers.  As far as the raffle, the organizer would make it clear the drawings will be promptly on the hour and ONLY one number will be drawn.  If you have a ticket the ENDS with that number ( a one in ten chance) you get in line to claim a prize.  If you are not present it isn't any different than not being around when 50 to 100 numbers are announced throughout the day.  No, I have not helped put on a model car show which is why I have a different perspective - I can look beyond how it has always been done and come up iwith some tweaking to the process.  Instead of asking for a volunteer to call those 100 raffle numbers only to have half of the people to show up to claim a prize when they are able to get close enough to the board to actually read those tiny numbers you call one number and you're done.  Lastly, if letting some physically disabled people in the door a few minutes before the rest of the general public comes in then I recommend you revisit how the show is being managed.  How much extra manpower would it take to check a few dozen people with a special ticket in hand over a ten minute span.   I assume you're involved in these types of shows based upon your response and these suggestions should not be taken as saying anyone does not work very hard to put on these shows and is not appreciated.  I've encountered people in the workplace that will not implement changes or consider any recommendation because they do not come up with it themselves and are too close to the process.  As the participants at these shows get even older - your perspective will hopefully change.

[Harry P.]

Here's a very simple fix to the "standing in line" problem.

Doors for entrants open at 8AM. Show for the general public begins at 11AM.

[ZTony8]

Many shows have floor rights that,for extra money,allow the payer earlier access that the rest of the attendees.Usually that earlier time coincides with the set-up time for the vendors.We do it at the two D.A.A.M. shows here in metro Detroit.

[Chuckyg1]

I don't think the handicapped should be required to pay a premuim to enter early. It would come across as penalizing them for their affliction. Instead, they should be allowed entry when they arrive, (go to the head of the line). The problem would be any able bodied people in their group, would they be allowed in as well, do they pay the premium or would they wait in line like the rest of us?

[1930fordpickup]

I agree with Harry just not sure it would take 3 hours to get the people with cars in and set up. 

As far as the white board with the number I like that as to hearing more noise in the room. The PA sounding every 1/2 hour makes you not listen to it. If I want to win  door prize I watch the board if not I do not, more times than not I give my ticket to a young kids at the show.  

Good points about the disabled John. I do not think they should get charged more to enter safely. As far as a group of people going in with them no. But they should be allowed one person to help them set up. 

[Dave Van]

HATE the early entry at an extra cost thing.........

Like the toll lanes on LA freeways.....if you are rich enough you get special privileges.  Don't have the cash....tough you sit. 

I have the same feelings toward 'floor rights' or whatever early entry is called. 

I HAVE  put on two national shows......so I am fully aware of the work and time needed. 

[stavanzer]

Rex, makes some valid points. Shows ARE a lot of work, and all of the Shows/Contests would not exist with out the volunteer labor that backs up the tiny group that actually does the work of organizing the show.

That said, The IPMS show I went to in Long Beach several years ago, was a gong show on the, pay to get in, side. In the days now of Laptops and Smartphones, we need to start looking at better ways to do things. I too, get tired of hearing the "But we've always done it this way" crowd. We may need to "do it that way" again. but let's make sure that is indeed the case.  I like his raffle idea. Not what I'd suggest, but I like it. I'd move to two numbers, ie: 10, 26, ect. but after that it sounds good to me. Save the Whole Number calls for the last part of the day, for the really big prizes. The last couple small SoCal shows I've been to, the show/contest is essentially over by 12:00-12:30. After that everybody is just waiting on judging/prizes and Gossip & Shopping. (The other real reason we go to shows anyway) I know that many folks travel to the shows from a long distance, and by the early afternoon, they are just ready to start the interminable drive home. So tightening up the back end in the afternoon, could be a boon.

[Xingu]

I have only been to ONE model show but many other hobby/trade shows. The only ones that should be allowed in early are vendors. Everyone else should have to wait in line for the opening of the show. Registration forms should be made available ahead of time for those wishing to quickly get their models on the tables. Perhaps there is a way to preregister for the show (there could be a discount to fees for preregistering). Everyone else should have to decide if they are going to get their models registered or quickly head to the vendors and look for deals. Nobody should be able to buy special privileges. If you want to get in early, show up at the venue early so you a closer to the front of the line. That is my totally uninformed and biased opinion.

 

 

[vamach1]

Thanks for the responses everyone.  As far as a premium price over the day of show fee, that was to discourage anyone from thinking they could just they were disabled to avoid the long lines.  The prepaid folks could sign a statement on the honor system and perhaps get a $5 credit towards food or any vendor plus get an extra raffle ticket,  I actually think anyone should be allowed to buy a presale ticket, show it at the door and pick up their goodie bag inside the show - not at the entrance so there is no disruption of the "regular" line,  With lines of perhaps upwards of 300 people waiting in line - it is a SLOW process of collecting money at the door no matter how fast the volunteers can shuffle the money.  Flash your prepaid ticket and stroll right in,  You can do that now for movies, concerts, amusement parks to bypass the long lines.  Yes there would be some extra work mailing tickets but some shows send a reminder postcard to all prior attendees every year.  Frankly I could do withou the card, I can figure out when the show is from the event website,  There should be an opt out option for the reminder - that could save a few hundred bucks in printing costs and postage not to mention saving volunteers time.  Spectators should be allowed in anytime and perhaps be charged a lower fee - if they want to wait in line that is their choice.  I cannot understand why they would arrive at the crack of dawn unless a vendor with old rare kits was selling them at their original retail prices ;-)

As far as calling a two digit number versus one digit - that only weeds out one percent of the total tickets handed out which is almost as pointless as calling five numbers out of five hundred - the odds of someone winning are the same.  I would guess most shows have enough prizes for at least ten percent of the entrants/spectators, especially factoring in the ones that bother to hang around to see if they won.  The last show I attended I would guess we'll over half of the people won something and it would not surprise me if was closer to 75%.  I for one would have gone crazy calling out 75 or more numbers.

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by vamach1
RAFFLE

[peteski]

With lines of perhaps upwards of 300 people waiting in line - it is a SLOW process of collecting money at the door no matter how fast the volunteers can shuffle the money.  Flash your prepaid ticket and stroll right in, 

If you attend NNL East, they have this problem solved.  They have crew walking along the long line collecting admission charge and stamping your hand showing that you paid. They also give you a goodie bag with the raffle ticket and few other items. They also give you model registration forms so you can fill them out while waiting in line.  Registration forms can also be downloaded from their website before the show and filled out at home.  When the doors open, everybody just goes right in.

[Howard Cohen]

I have been an organizer, a vendor (still am) and the guy standing in line waiting for the door to open. I like the NNL East idea of printing my entry form at home and having it filled out, then adding the numbers while I am waiting for the doors to open. Their selling tickets in line (starting about an hour before the door opens) works very well and I wish more shows did this  

As for selling floor trading rights or allowing people to buy a ticket to get in early, I disagree. I have been to many shows where they let people in wheelchairs in first and that works well. As a vendor I am trying to unpack my boxes and get the model kits set up, the accessories set up and whatever else I am selling. I don't need some eager beaver following me around, looking over my shoulder or opening my boxes to see what I am selling, trust me, it happens all too often. If you are that obsessed that you 'have to shop early', maybe you need to step back and take a breath and let the vendors do their jobs. I usually tell those people that everything on the table is $1000 each, just to get them to leave me alone so I can set up. I discourage pre-show shopping when I can. Oh, NNL East also has a rule that there is no trading, buying or selling before the show opens to the public and that works very well. I can set up my table in an hour (lots of pre-show prep time) and any time more than that is spent gabbing to the other vendors. Most vendors are ready in an hour, so having the show open later isn't needed. As for opening the show to vendors at 8AM and the public at 11AM...it would never work. Most shoppers come in at 9AM and are gone by 11AM, not just at model shows but at car swap meets as well. I have some shows I get to at 6AM, and it can take me an hour or two to get there, but I still prefer that to a late opening. 

Raffles...I like the idea of putting the numbers on a board that I can check when I want to. At shows where I am not vending, I spend a lot of time gabbing to other modellers and I only go to the raffle board towards the end of the day. 

Finally, if you have some ideas about how to put on a show, offer your services to the groups that put on shows, they can always use extra help  Or, start your own show, we can always use another good show  

 

[vamach1]

The idea about letting people in early was simply to avoid having people wait in line for an hour or more that are not up to that physically.  I realize there are shows that have "floor" rights or let people in early to "get the deals" but that was not the intent of the suggestion - it was simply to some entrants or spectators get some more sleep and know that they could close to when the show actually opens and not be sent to the back of a line of 200 or 300 people.  As far as offering my "services", the suggestions were to generate some discussion and provoke some thoughts in the of people that put on existing events.  I've had my share of working 8 hours on the day of an event and after a few decades it's not fun anymore.  Having been on both sides (organizer and participant) i have seen what works well and what could use a couple of very simple changes that would make it easier on everyone.

Like many of you I've built models most of my life (since the 1960's) and whatever can be done to make the day of a show go a little smoother should be at least considered.

[1930fordpickup]

Rex nothing wrong with this discussion.  There have been  many good points made. 

[vamach1]

Thanks Andy.  I'll make an analogy to try to get my point across.  If a friend had a car that was getting poor gas mileage and I diagnosed the problem (needed a tune up) would I tell him ?  Of course I would.  He would not buy a new car and maybe he would ask me for some tools and help but I I'm sure he would realize the value of making a minor change that would improve his mileage and thus save some money.  So, I'm asking if people are okay with their current mileage that may not be optimal or are there some new and fairly easy to implements ideas that could be tried out to improve these events.  There is nothing wrong with these shows and we are all appreciative of the volunteers efforts but a tune-up once in a while could make them even more enjoyable for all.

PS - there is no hope for one of my cars - it gets about 8 mpg tuned up. :-)

 

Edited May 24, 2016 by vamach1
typo

[Von Don Koolkat]

Eliminate the door prizes and it'll save people having to wait around....  

Not a serious suggestion...