bismarck Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I would like to know if the 1957 Chevy 210 Black Widow Would qualify to run with its fuel injection setup in Junior stock drag racing. Was the Widow a factory build, or were 50 offered to the public to homologate it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High octane Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I believe the fuelie Black Widow would run in Junior Stock, and yes they were a factory build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bismarck Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 Thanks for the info. I downloaded the NHRA rules for Jr. Stock from the drag section, but I had a few questions about the 210 fuelie. Since they were a factory build, we good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Are you talking about now, or "back in the day" rules? I believe the 283 FI was optional in just about any '57 Chevy, at least theoretically, so it would have been legal in a Bel Air, a 210, or a 150. I've got a couple old east-coast drag magazines from that time that had detailed articles on what all was legal in '55-'57 Chevies--just reread those a couple months ago. I'll try to doublecheck for you tonight, if I can find them again and remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bismarck Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 I'm looking at Jr. Stock, about 67- 69 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espo Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I'm looking at Jr. Stock, about 67- 69 or so.The class in which the car would have raced was a formula based on factory rated horsepower and factory stated shipping weight, NHRA would often raise the horsepower rating on a particular engine if they felt the manufacturer was sand bagging on the rating. The Revell model represents the 150 series which was correct for the Black Widow although the Fuel Injection was an option that could be ordered on any '57 model Chevrolet save maybe the sedan delivery, but even that may be argued by some. Guessing only, it may have run in A or B stock at that time. If you can find an NHRA rule book from the mid to late '60's you could figure out what class it would have been in. They also would denote say B/SA for an automatic transmission car and B/S or B/SS for a manual transmission depending on the track. I would think that by the '60's such a car would have moved into say a C or D class by then based on the newer higher output engines of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bismarck Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) According to the tables, and using a 283 and a manual tranny. the Widow would be considered G/S for 1968 Junior stock. I'm not sure how accurate the tables are. Edited May 25, 2016 by bismarck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 According to the tables, and using a 283 and a manual tranny. the Widow would be considered G/S for 1968 Junior stock. I'm not sure how accurate the tables are. Now I'm all intrigued and whatnot. I'll try to find those articles tonight and see what they said about the '57 FI engines and how well they "fit." Keep in mind that the highest horsepower engine wasn't necessarily the best engine for class drag racing. You wanted some rating/weight combination that put the car as close as possible to the lightest weight break in the class, not down toward the other end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bismarck Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 Any info would be appreciated. The '57 150 sedan is the car type I'm looking at. Shipping weight for this car with manual tranny was 3168 lbs. and with 283 fuelie motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muncie Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Sorry, kinda getting picky here - The Black Widows were 1957 Chevrolet 150 sedans modified for NASCAR racing. The 1957 Chevrolet Stock Car Competition Guide published by Chevrolet (reprints are available) has all of the modifications and secrets including the 6-lug wheels, heavier suspension, and competition exhaust for NASCAR. There were about 6 Black Widows built by SEDCO for NASCARHowever, There were a lot 150 sedans built and they were available with the optional fuel injected 283 so that combination would be legal or a junior stocker I like your plan -A little bit more on the Black Widows from the H.A.M.B. - http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1957-chevrolet-black-widow.137930/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC Norton Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I would like to know if the 1957 Chevy 210 Black Widow Would qualify to run with its fuel injection setup in Junior stock drag racing. Was the Widow a factory build, or were 50 offered to the public to homologate it? Jere Stahls 57 sedan ran D/S in the 64-65 era.....now, not sure if that was a fuelie or carb deal....but most 55, 56, 57 chevys in Jr. Stock at the time were down there in I, J, K....etc, so i'll bet if you did a bit of research you may find his was a fuelie. I also remember a 57 wagon that ran out of Jenkins shop in that era, and it ran F/S in 1968, and if it was up that high, it probably may have been a fuelie as well....the Ace.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Irwin Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Sorry, kinda getting picky here - The Black Widows were 1957 Chevrolet 150 sedans modified for NASCAR racing. The 1957 Chevrolet Stock Car Competition Guide published by Chevrolet (reprints are available) has all of the modifications and secrets including the 6-lug wheels, heavier suspension, and competition exhaust for NASCAR. There were about 6 Black Widows built by SEDCO for NASCARHowever, There were a lot 150 sedans built and they were available with the optional fuel injected 283 so that combination would be legal or a junior stocker I like your plan -A little bit more on the Black Widows from the H.A.M.B. - http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1957-chevrolet-black-widow.137930/Truth spoken above.Most Jr. Stockers have the factory horsepower lettered on the car somewhere, so the engine that they ran is easily determined. Also during the horsepower wars cars were moved down is class each year as more potent cars were built and classed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longbox55 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Sorry, kinda getting picky here - The Black Widows were 1957 Chevrolet 150 sedans modified for NASCAR racing. The 1957 Chevrolet Stock Car Competition Guide published by Chevrolet (reprints are available) has all of the modifications and secrets including the 6-lug wheels, heavier suspension, and competition exhaust for NASCAR. There were about 6 Black Widows built by SEDCO for NASCAR That's correct. The brakes, rear axle, and wheels all come from the 1/2 ton truck (some source claim the rear axle is 3/4 ton, but that is incorrect), plus there's plenty of other changes. The Competition Guide can also be found on the Old Car Manual Project for free. http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/books/1957ChevyStockCarCompGuide/index.htmOne thing that can be done, especially if you build it as a 150 Utility Sedan (which the Black Widow kit does build as) or a Sedan Delivery, is put a 4 speed Hydramatic in it. There's a loophole in the rules where guys did get away with that by taking advantage of the inspectors lack of knowledge of what a given car really had as an option. In the case of those 2 particular models of '57 Chevy, they are listed as "commercial vehicles". While the Passenger cars, including the Utility Sedan and Sedan Delivery, were not available with the Hydramatic, Trucks were. It's just a simple matter of listing the Utility and Delivery as "trucks" to get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopaws Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 For a good reference Google Bob Lambeck's 1957 Jr. Stocker, one of the best in it's day. One of his 57's was a 150 with FI and a four speed, I built a replica of that car. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Okay, I'm home and found those two mags. One article is just about the sedan deliveries which would be of different weights from your 150 sedan.The other one doesn't break things down by specific classes but does have some good info (Joe Oldham, Speed & Supercar, October 1970). Apparently there were two versions of the '57 FI engine, a hydraulic-cammer at 250 HP and the much better known solid lifter at 283 HP. Various photos in the article show:*283/270 HP (non-FI) 2DS in H/S*283/220 HP 2DS in M/SOther non-FI '57 engines include 283/185 (2-barrel), 283/220 (4-bbl), 283/245 (2x4bbl), 283/270 (2x4bbl).Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bismarck Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 Thanks for the info guys. There is so much info out there about these cars, i didn't know where to start. Now i do. Thanks Much!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC Norton Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Thanks for the info guys. There is so much info out there about these cars, i didn't know where to start. Now i do. Thanks Much!! ....one other thing as well.....fender well exit headers were the order of the day in that era for these cars, so some scratch building will be in your future ...lol.......the Ace... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bismarck Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 Yep. i thought about that one too. I'll be cutting and fitting for a good while till i'm satisfied with how they look!! LOL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longbox55 Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 Other non-FI '57 engines include 283/185 (2-barrel), 283/220 (4-bbl), 283/245 (2x4bbl), 283/270 (2x4bbl). In addition, there was also a 265/162 (2-barrel) base V8, which is identified by its chartreuse yellow color instead of the red-orange of the other V8s. This engine, other than color, is essentially the same as the engine found in the 1/2 through 1 1/2 ton trucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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