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Compliments on posted models


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This topic is concerning compliments given to posts of poorly executed models. When I see this, I wonder if there is any value in receiving compliments. If I thought every compliment was honest, I could use them as a gauge of sorts to see how my peers view my models, and how far I have to go. I understand the philosophy of "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything." I also understand not wanting to be a jerk, but at the same time, are these responses honest? I'm not really passing any kind of judgment on the posted models or the responses. What I would like to see is a discussion of this issue from all sides. 

I was a beginner once, and when I was given honest feedback on my "best efforts", I knew they were right. It seems everyone wants to go through life without ever being offended. I think learning to cope with criticism is a much more valuable skill than trying to avoid it.If there is criticism, it should be honest and helpful. "That model looks like garbage" is not very useful. "A polishing kit might get some of that orange peel out, try it on your next build" is more useful.

I look forward to everyone's response.

 

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I agree with you Tom, no value in telling someone that their model looks great when there are obvious flaws.

 I think the trouble lies in being able to get your message across to someone via the internet without it being mis-interpreted. This forum (and many others) along with email are basically one-sided conversations and being able to differentiate between constructive criticism and someone being a jerk is not always the easiest thing for people.

You are correct in that commenting about a paint job, mentioning the orange peel and how a polishing kit can help improve it is beneficial, but only if the recipient takes the right way. 

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TYere have been many threads on this subject in the past.

If you want an honest critic of your work then you need to let them know you want it.

There are some very thin skinned individuals who take any criticism as a personal attack they only want to hear how wonderful they are. Whether their paint makes an orange look smooth or things are grossly out of scale.

 

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This is a problem that will never be resolved.

Some people, regardless of skill level, post their work and ask for comments and criticisms, good or bad. Those are the people who actually are looking to improve as builders and actually want honest comments on their work.

But then there are people who want nothing but pats on the back and are offended by the slightest criticism or suggestions for improvement. That type of person will always be here and will always keep on posting.

And then there are the people you mentioned... those who praise obviously badly done models. I really have no idea why they do that. It would make more sense to not say anything than to praise a model with obvious problems. I can't even count how many posts I've seen of a really badly built model followed by a string of "Nice work" and "looks great" comments. :rolleyes:

Given the fact that we are all different, it's a problem that'll never be solved.

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I myself always ask for comments pro or con. Many times there is something I missed or just screwed up on and I don't mind at all when someone will comment on it. My models are never perfect and if I waited to post a perfect model well, that would be a long wait. I think Harry is one of the most honest people when it comes to comments. He will tell you when something isn't quite right but will also give you a pat on the back when deserved.

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This topic is concerning compliments given to posts of poorly executed models. When I see this, I wonder if there is any value in receiving compliments. If I thought every compliment was honest, I could use them as a gauge of sorts to see how my peers view my models, and how far I have to go. I understand the philosophy of "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything." I also understand not wanting to be a jerk, but at the same time, are these responses honest? I'm not really passing any kind of judgment on the posted models or the responses. What I would like to see is a discussion of this issue from all sides. 

I was a beginner once, and when I was given honest feedback on my "best efforts", I knew they were right. It seems everyone wants to go through life without ever being offended. I think learning to cope with criticism is a much more valuable skill than trying to avoid it.If there is criticism, it should be honest and helpful. "That model looks like garbage" is not very useful. "A polishing kit might get some of that orange peel out, try it on your next build" is more useful.

I look forward to everyone's response.

 

Tom, I have been a member here for a LONG LONG LONG time . In that duration I have learned ONE THING ! Do NOT SPEAK ILL of a model ! The Moderators here have "Trigger fingers " and won't hestate to retaliate by throwing you off . This is WHY I NEVER Say a desparaging remark on this board . Course too , it has caused me to post my work on face book and other forums as well

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There are definitely some "cheerleaders" here, the ones that go through EVERY Under Glass post and tell them how great their model looks. Myself, I am here looking for ideas and ways to improve my skills, so I actually welcome the comments if they come across as a helpful tip, and not an attack on my ability. When I give a comment I try to return that courtesy, but if I see a model that is so badly done that I can't think of anything constructive to say to help them out in the future, I just stay silent and move on.

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Tom, I have been a member here for a LONG LONG LONG time . In that duration I have learned ONE THING ! Do NOT SPEAK ILL of a model ! The Moderators here have "Trigger fingers " and won't hestate to retaliate by throwing you off .

That is 100% FALSE.

Nobody here is a bigger fan of free expression than I am. Nobody has ever been thrown off because of critical comments they may have made on a model. To say that is just flat out wrong, and you should know better than to throw around baseless accusations like that.

The only reason that anyone has ever been banned is due to that person breaking forum rules. Usually many times, because we give people several "second chances" before we pull the trigger and ban them. So anyone that has been banned from here has broken forum rules many times. But commenting on a posted model is not against any rule here... in fact, it's encouraged! That's how people learn to be better builders!

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And then there is this from the top of the On the Workbench forum.

"Rules for On The Workbench

For those viewing others who are presenting their works in progress in this section of the forum, please keep your criticisms, sarcasms, and other comments to yourself, unless the builder/poster has specifically asked for such replies."

It is telling us NOT to make any negative comments on a build unless the OP has specifically said it is okay. At least that is how I read it. And in my interpretation that includes no suggestions on how to do something better.

 

So I guess for the most part it has to be "gee, great model" type posts or nothing.

Russ

 

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Russ, Gregg added that quite a while ago, when we were having problems with some forum members getting too personal or nasty with their "comments." Most of those people are long gone... they either moved on to cause trouble on other forums or they were banned. I don't agree with that disclaimer still being there, but ultimately it's Gregg's call.

Notice though, there is no such disclaimer in the "Under Glass" section.

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And then there are the people you mentioned... those who praise obviously badly done models. I really have no idea why they do that. It would make more sense to not say anything than to praise a model with obvious problems. 

 I can tell you why. Because there is no worse feeling than to be ignored among people you respect or admire. I mean if Joe-14yr-old posted up his first build with orange peel and glue on the windshield and mounting tabs visible on the bumpers and NO ONE SAID ANYTHING, like as not, that would be his last model. I mean, can you imagine anything more disheartening?

So because I know that feeling, I will find something I like about the model and compliment it. I will occasionally offer advice, but most often not. 

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Ah, the touchy subject that comes up often!

The Internet is difficult because we cannot see who we are conversing with.  We do not know if this is the work of a small child, a challenged person or someone recovering from a stroke. . We don't want to scare a new builder off the board either.  So we take the easy way out and just compliment all the models.  Under Glass threads get boring because once you've seen the model, it's often a waste of time to look at the thread again to read the five new one word comments.  Come on people, say more than "Cool!"

I like build threads and will often post a warning about something I know about the kit, that they haven't reached that step yet. Or tell them something they're doing wrong while they still have the opportunity to fix it.   People have warned builders that the have the heads on backwards on an engine,  the directional tires are on backwards and other help. That's constructive. 

A while back I was working on my '34 Ford sedan rod.  I posted every step on two different boards and nobody told me the roof shape on the kit was wrong until it was too late to fix it! That kinda ticked me off, that once someone said it, a number of guys chimed in that they had seen that too! It bothered me enough to strip the body and correct the roof shape.  

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 I mean, can you imagine anything more disheartening?

Yes, getting false, undeserved fawning praise for unsatisfactory, less than mediocre work (not talking models) from your peers in the real world as an adult because they don't wish to damage your fragile psyche and hurt your feelings. There will be the day that someone will be honest and tell you something that you don't want to hear. How are you going to handle that? Throw a tantrum? Punch the guy in the face? Stomp away steaming mad because the guy doesn't understand or appreciate your genius? You can't improve on what you are doing if the only comments are obvious, bald-faced lies made to massage your ego. If you can't handle honest criticism for something as banal as a model, you are in a world of butthurt when it involves something really important.* I had a new one torn by none other than Steve Zaloga when I was 14. Steve didn't mince words. I wanted to tell him that he was a jerk; but, after analyzing what he had to say, I realized he was right on all accounts. He was brutally honest about my modeling techniques, painting and accuracy to detail and I appreciated everything he had to say. If he would have said something like "Nice work, kid" instead of "This is absolute cra p!", I'd still be building junk. I probably still do; but, at a higher level of competency and accuracy.

*These comments were written with no one particular in mind. They were written using "you" in a general context. The fact that I needed to include a disclaimer to my comments is disturbing in itself for a myriad of reasons.

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I know that some around these parts like to praise anyone and anything and sometimes they are doing a great disservice to some builders by making them think they are doing great, and thus they think they are doing well and will not push to increase their skill set. And some like to pounce on those for saying what they really feel about a build. Hence, if I don't like it, I will not comment. I have been taken to task for being honest on some builders. 

Whenever I post a build, I like to hear honest comments, good or bad. And if you don't wish to comment, that is fine as well. 

My biggest beef is still poor pictures with a "Sorry for the bad pictures" note attached. There is really not much of an excuse not too take better pics. 

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I was wondering what to write for my 1000th post and this subject is a good one to chime in on.

There have been times when I've complimented someone even when the car isn't 100% in every category. Sometimes it's because I have one in my stash or it's a 1 : 1 I've owned and other times it's because I think the builder might be a younger person in need of encouragement. Saying "it's the most beautiful and perfect thing in the world" doesn't accomplish anything. I typically don't make those kinds of comments unless the finished product is obviously superior.

As for myself, EVERY model I have built has mistakes. I'm sure a lot of the models that are posted, that look great in a picture, also have mistakes too small to see or hidden in some way. 99% of the time, I don't need anyone to tell me what I've done wrong, I can see it for myself.

If honest feedback is what you want, take some of your work to a show or have someone near you that's experienced critique it.

PS I just finished cataract surgery on both eyes and man, can I see so much better. I had my little shop filled with lights and 4 flood lights attached to the top of my paint booth. It looks like Broadway now. Hopefully, it will help me with my builds.

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There are a TON of very well built models posted on this forum, but I would say there are few that are 100% flawless, even though people may have cleverly photo'd it to hide the flaws :lol: (as they say, there's always room for improvement). From what I've seen, pretty much everybody here is open to criticism, no matter their skill level. However, I don't see anything wrong with saying, "that's a nice build, I like it," or something similar and not saying anything else. You're not saying it's perfect...you're saying you like it. Now, is that helpful to the person who posted the topic? Probably not, but it's not a bad thing either. That being said, I do think it's more helpful to offer both compliments and criticisms if possible...kind of a "I like what you did with the ____, but I think the ____ would look better like this." For argument's sake, let's just say there's a post of a completely junk build (which, I've not seen one that was just all bad since I've been a member, but to be fair...). While I'm not a fan of the "give everyone a trophy because they showed up" mentality that seems to fly these days, I also think it's important to encourage people. These instances would be where offering both compliments and criticisms are most helpful...you're helping them realize mistakes or ways they could improve, but offering up some praise so they don't get too discouraged. And, let's face it...not everyone's built the same. Some people have insanely thick skin, and some people shatter at the slightest hint that somebody doesn't like them/something they did. The problem with the internet, is it's often impossible to tell (unless you already know the person) how the person you're dealing with will take it until after the fact. But anyway, in my time here, the only time I've seen criticism not be well received (by the builder or the community) is when it was unnecessarily harsh (name-calling or heckling).

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There are so many ways to look at this subject. But ultimately for me it's who am I to tell someone they are having fun wrong? I'm not going to tell Mr Obsessive he shouldn't spend all that time perfecting his models any more than I'm going to tell a builder who's having a great time banging together models that he should stop that and build models the "right" way. In a club I belonged to we had a builder that produced what we might call rough models. But by golly he was having a lot of fun; more fun than those of us who obsessed about mold seams and panel lines and polished paint etc. If he's having tons of fun with his models  and I'm shoving mine back in the box cuz I'm not happy with them or constantly purple ponding them, who's enjoying the hobby more? Am I going to tell him he's wrong? That he's having fun wrong? It reminds me of a Big Bang Theory episode where Sheldon complains his new friends are having fun wrong.

If I praise someone here perhaps they will be encouraged to stay and maybe they will pick up the positive tips that are being passed on to others. I don't know, like I said many ways to look at the subject.

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There are so many ways to look at this subject. But ultimately for me it's who am I to tell someone they are having fun wrong? I'm not going to tell Mr Obsessive he shouldn't spend all that time perfecting his models any more than I'm going to tell a builder who's having a great time banging together models that he should stop that and build models the "right" way. In a club I belonged to we had a builder that produced what we might call rough models. But by golly he was having a lot of fun; more fun than those of us who obsessed about mold seams and panel lines and polished paint etc. If he's having tons of fun with his models  and I'm shoving mine back in the box cuz I'm not happy with them or constantly purple ponding them, who's enjoying the hobby more? Am I going to tell him he's wrong? That he's having fun wrong? It reminds me of a Big Bang Theory episode where Sheldon complains his new friends are having fun wrong.

If I praise someone here perhaps they will be encouraged to stay and maybe they will pick up the positive tips that are being passed on to others. I don't know, like I said many ways to look at the subject.

That brings up another good point. Sometimes I think people assume the builder was offended if criticism is ignored or disregarded, which isn't necessarily the case. For instance, I build ONLY for fun, not for shows, competitions, etc., and I have a lot of other hobbies, so I'm only willing to invest so much time building a single model. Now, while I do want it to come out as good as possible and welcome criticism that will help me do so, I don't care about every piece of criticism. For instance, if I post a kit and somebody says, "Revell got the body slightly wrong on that one, you can do this to correct it," I'm probably going to ignore\disregard it. It's not because I'm offended, but because I don't care if it's slightly wrong...even if I possessed the skill to correct it, I'm not going to spend the time doing so, because it would stress me out and I enjoy the hobby because it helps me relieve stress.

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