Constant paint can bulges, what to do?

[SfanGoch]

Well said, sir! That is a most enlightening analysis, Mr. Bill. Consider me sold on your uncanny ability to explain the unexplainable so that even the common man may be in awe of your most excellent and humongously big intellect.

 

[aurfalien]

I'm happy that my stressful and some what costly paint can situation is so humorous.

[SfanGoch]

So are we.

Seriously though, there is some weird, unexplainable phenomena taking place in your pad, man which can't be merely ascribed to pure coincidence. The chances that every can of spray paint you touch turning into a potential pigmentation grenade are beyond astronomical. You should consider putting these powers to good use. Play the lottery.  

[aurfalien]

So are we.

Seriously though, there is some weird, unexplainable phenomena taking place in your pad, man which can't be merely ascribed to pure coincidence. The chances that every can of spray paint you touch turning into a potential pigmentation grenade are beyond astronomical. You should consider putting these powers to good use. Play the lottery.  

Well, hoping Tamiya or Rustoleum have seen this before since they move such large quantity of paint cans.  I gave them my location, avg temperature, barometric pressure and storage conditions.

[Snake45]

I have nothing to add except that like many others here, I've been using rattlecans of various kinds for 50 years now and have never seen anything like that.

Once would be weird enough. Several, and it's X-files time.

[Xingu]

Your house must be sitting on an ancient Indian burial ground or something. There is some sort of paranormal activity going on there. I have only ever had one spray can bulge. It was in a very hot shed for about 10 years.

[Yenkocamaro]

Well, hoping Tamiya or Rustoleum have seen this before since they move such large quantity of paint cans.  I gave them my location, avg temperature, barometric pressure and storage conditions.

Thats what I was talking about, barometric pressure has no influence on a sealed can of paint, key word here is "sealed". The only other explanation would be you have a bionic arm, and your shaking the can too hard. I'm anxious to hear what the paint companies reply will be.

 

Cheers,

Lance

[aurfalien]

I appreciate the feedback, even ones at my expense.

I'll post what Rustoleum and Tamiya support say.

Perhaps there is a reason why Tamiya recommends swirling paint cans, not shaking.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Thats what I was talking about, barometric pressure has no influence on a sealed can of paint...

Well, technically not entirely true. IF the barometric pressure were to drop far enough (or to be pedantically accurate, the pressure of the atmosphere the can was in, like if the can were placed in a sealed container that had the air pumped out of it, approaching a vacuum), the end of the can very likely WOULD bulge, just as the first photo shown by the OP.

HOWEVER, barometric pressure on Earth, anywhere there's a breathable atmosphere...it just ain't gonna go that low..

One EXTREMELY UNLIKELY (and non facetious) but possible way for this to happen is if the end of the can was somehow fabricated from significantly thinner steel stock than is normal. Extremely unlikely that an under-spec sheet of steel could have crept into the material pile, but maybe remotely possible...depending on their supplier routines, inventory procedures, etc. Like I said, really unlikely, especially when one figures these cans are fabricated by fairly intelligent machines...not easily distracted, texting humans.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I appreciate the feedback, even ones at my expense.

I'll post what Rustoleum and Tamiya support say.

Perhaps there is a reason why Tamiya recommends swirling paint cans, not shaking.

Nothing said was at your "expense". YOU were not ridiculed.

Tamiya recommends swirling only because it's a more reliable way to get the mixing ball to go round and round and get the settled pigment off of the bottom than entirely random shaking. Think about how the ball travels using each method, it's pretty obvious.

I've been using spray cans in every conceivable environment on the planet (except arctic and undersea) and like other guys here, for more than 50 years. I've NEVER seen this happen.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[1930fordpickup]

Having lived in a house without Air my whole life never seen this happen. Ye it does get north of 90 degrees here, and our barn and garage do not have Air, no cans did it that sat in them. Not a paint can all the way to Raid and brake cleaner nothing has ever done this. Dads old metal barn is as bad as a car in the sun. If it was heat they would have been popping off every time it hit 100 outside. 

 

[aurfalien]

Well, could an amount of ambient light make a difference?

My room is well lit, but diffused a bit.

My room is currently at an ISO EV 100 of 6 to 8, its mid morning.

While it's cool, its cheerful and lit.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Well, could an amount of ambient light make a difference?

 

No. If you can't feel it as "heat" (the infrared end of the spectrum), there's just no possibility ambient light could have any effect whatsoever.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Here's a video of a can being pressurized to failure. Watch the sequence of events. The first thing to go is when the TOP of the can, at the formed-in ridges, begins to try to straighten itself out (around 225PSI). After the explosive failure (about 365PSI at the seam between the can bottom and the sides), if you look closely, you'll see the bottom of the can deformed something like the bottom of the can in your original photo, well before it failed...but at a MUCH higher pressure differential that could EVER be encountered under anything remotely like "normal" circumstances.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[aurfalien]

Here's a video of a can being pressurized to failure. Watch the sequence of events. The first thing to go is when the TOP of the can, at the formed-in ridges, begins to try to straighten itself out (around 225PSI). After the explosive failure (about 365PSI at the seam between the can bottom and the sides), if you look closely, you'll see the bottom of the can deformed something like the bottom of the can in your original photo, well before it failed...but at a MUCH higher pressure differential that could EVER be encountered under anything remotely like "normal" circumstances.

You see this is  very interesting.

I also had a Design Master Color can of paint bulge on me.  They are distro via Michaels.

I actually called em (dmcolor.com) who mentioned that it's alight that the can bulges as its meant to in order to even out the pressure so that can failure doesn't occur.

To all who responded about not seeing this in the many years, do you or have you lived in California?  And how old are your current cans of paint?

The reason I ask is that for example our break fluid and our paint thinner is different than most across the county.  I can't speak to the merits of this but our paint thinner sux and the break fluid you buy now no longer strips paint.

Perhaps our paint cans are different as well?

Remember I'm new to this hobby and all of my paints are bought within the past 2 years.

I'll bring up all of this when speaking to Tamiya and Rustoleum as I'd love to solve this.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Aerosol can explosive failure analysis:   http://www.chemaxx.com/360_aerosol_can_explosion.htm

Again, nothing in the data seems to remark on a pre-failure mode like you're experiencing.

If California does in fact use a different propellant mixture from the rest of the world, there may be something there. No data at this time.

My spray cans live in an un-heated, un-cooled shop that varies from 17F in the winter to well over 100F in summer. Paint cans range from a week or two old to many years.

I'm tending to suspect a too-thin steel material used in the bottom inwardly-domed part of your cans, probably from a Chinese manufacturer cutting the spec (as is very VERY common) to make a few more rice-grain profit per unit.

[espo]

I appreciate the feedback, even ones at my expense.

I'll post what Rustoleum and Tamiya support say.

Perhaps there is a reason why Tamiya recommends swirling paint cans, not shaking.

You have had a lot of "help" and you have been a very good sport about all of the humor on this issue. While I personally have only had this sort of thing happen to me once and I have no doubt that I had over heated the can creating my own problem, I am very curious what the different paint suppliers think the problem may be. It is hard to believe that anyone could be that unlucky with paint cans.  Please let us know what you learn so that this may be prevented in the future.

[unclescott58]

Wow! I too in 50 years of model building have never seen a can of paint do what's being seen here. I just don't understand it. I'll be interested in finding out what you hear from the paint companies, Brian. It's a mystery to me. Interesting. But, a mystery.

[aurfalien]

Hi,

I called Tamiya this morning.

First off, GREAT support and reachability.

They were VERY curious, intrigued and requested pics.

 

 

[Pete J.]

Brian, I will add to the choirs of "I've never seen that happen".  I live down the coast in San Diego and my garage is not air conditioned so ambient temp and pressure is normal.  I literally have a hundred or so cans of Tamiya paint any where from new to 15 years old.  I have had the plastic valve fail once or twice but that is about it.  If you have ever take a Tamiya can apart(I do when I decant it to get the last bit out) the balls are glass and less that 1/2" in diameter.  I doubt you could shake it with enough force to get that much denting. 

Tamiya suggests swirling the paint because shaking causes more of the propellant to dissolve in the paint.  This will result in bubbles as it comes out of solution in areas that you spray too thick, like panel lines.  

It is unlikely that ambient air pressure has anything to do with it.  Here at sea level the pressure is greatest and higher air pressure would have the opposite effect on the can.  If it were to high the can would crush not bulge.  Extreme low pressure would be needed to do this and I have had aerosol cans in aircraft(insect spray for decontamination on international flights) above 15,000 feet and not seen this effect.  

I also keep the cans I am using in a food dehydrator that runs at 110F and never had this issue.  It looks to me like you may have been unlucky enough to have gotten your hands on a defective can or maybe it is a knockoff.  You are not that far away from the Tamiya North American HQ in Irvine.  It might be worth a drive down to show them.  They are really good people and I am sure they would be interested in seeing the can.  If they have a defective batch, they would want to know.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Pete J.

[aurfalien]

Tamiya gave me a canned response.  I replied with a plea for help but no dice.

Rustoleum suggested that I am shaking the can too vigorously.

So I am on my own, I'll try less intense shaking and perhaps shaking holding the can side ways.

Pretty bummed out.

Here are a few pic.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2016 by aurfalien

[SfanGoch]

Looks like you're getting the old corporate brush-off, Brian. They don't want to know from nothing. You might consider starting a steel drum manufacturing company. Yo seem to have a real knack:

 

[aurfalien]

Looks like you're getting the old corporate brush-off, Brian. They don't want to know from nothing. You might consider starting a steel drum manufacturing company. Yo seem to have a real knack:

 

OMG, this guy you have pictured is also experiencing what I am.

That's a big a$$ can of paint I tell ya...

[aurfalien]

Tamiya got back to me again.

They said I should not shake the can for more then 30 seconds, I've been doing 1-2 minutes on all my cans.  Closer to two.

I believe this may have indeed been my issue.

So a few adjustments;

1) Swirl for 30 seconds.

2) If I feel the need to shake, 30 seconds with the can sideways.

3) Normal, not vigorous shaking.

 

Edited August 2, 2016 by aurfalien

[Pete J.]

Good lord man! How hard are you shaking that?  I have never seen that.  Crazy.