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CountryJoe

Detailing - How far do you go with Bolts?

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I've looked around and seen that people had bolts to just about everything imaginable... And sometimes in ways I never would have thought of. But my question does not run so deep...

"If I was adding a roll-bar setup to the bed of a pickup and put the bolt heads on the mounting plates - do I need to go all the way through and somehow finish it off on the underside of the truck?"

I know some are gonna say "it's personal choice"... but, what I guess what I looking for is a kinda general idea of whether or not this is something that most would just automatically do if they were doing the same thing. 

 

Thanks as always for your time.

Edited by CountryJoe

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I think you answered your question , how far do You want to go , that's the limiting factor. A line from one of my train modeling books is, " Put your best detail in front of the scene and people will usually assume that all of the unseen detail is the same level ".

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Yes, it really is YOUR choice. Some will do everything, some will do only what is easily seen, some  are somewhere in the middle, and the rest won't bother with bolts at all.

If you are one of those that not having the underside detailed will always bother you, then do it. You are (hopefully) building this to make YOU happy, so you have to decide where to stop.

And I have to go here. How are the "fish" doing?:D Sorry, with your screen name I couldn't resist. Bad 60's reference if you are too young to get it.

Russ

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In my mind this is a question of art.  We are creating something to fool the eye to believe that it is seeing reality. On a model the bolts have little or no structural purpose like they do in on the real thing, except perhaps to locate an item.  So the question becomes, "How far do you want to go?".  I build to a "can it be seen". Standard.  No sense in doing something that will be hidden.  The other option is to create a photo album of the build so others can see your work. 

Edited by Pete J.

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And then there's going to be the reality that the majority of model builders don't really seem to be big into real cars, and it may never even occur to them that bolts hold the roll bar mounting plates to a pickup bed floor. Or that to do it right, you need doubler plates UNDER the floor as well as bolts, so the bolt heads don't rip through the thin sheet metal. Same goes for seat-belt mounts.

Another problem is that once you get going in that direction, it's hard to stop. That stalls some of my builds. After putting bolt detail on header flanges on a car where the engine is featured, do you put a hold-down bolt on the distributor? On the carb flanges? Certainly the bolt detail should show on a blower, right? But how about the small ones on valve covers? Alternators and water pumps?

My head hurts.

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And then there's going to be the reality that the majority of model builders don't really seem to be big into real cars, and it may never even occur to them that bolts hold the roll bar mounting plates to a pickup bed floor. Or that to do it right, you need doubler plates UNDER the floor as well as bolts, so the bolt heads don't rip through the thin sheet metal. Same goes for seat-belt mounts.

Another problem is that once you get going in that direction, it's hard to stop. That stalls some of my builds. After putting bolt detail on header flanges on a car where the engine is featured, do you put a hold-down bolt on the distributor? On the carb flanges? Certainly the bolt detail should show on a blower, right? But how about the small ones on valve covers? Alternators and water pumps?

My head hurts.

I get there myself from time to time.  It is interesting how stalled builds seem to resurrect themselves in the middle of the night.  Something I couldn't figure out, suddenly becomes clear.  This is one of my favorite, where do I stop builds!

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I get there myself from time to time.  It is interesting how stalled builds seem to resurrect themselves in the middle of the night.  Something I couldn't figure out, suddenly becomes clear.  This is one of my favorite, where do I stop builds!

Really gorgeous, Pete. Looks real. Is that one of the Tamiya 1/12 Porsches?

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Some of you may already know about this, but Plastruct made Hexagon plastic rod in different sizes. From these rods, you can cut bolt heads, or nuts, if you just want those instead of a complete through nut and bolt.

I purchased mine from Hobbylinc.com   Check it out under building supplies.

Check out the pic of the shock on the left, this has a nut I cut from the Hex rod.

 

Cheers,

Lance

DSCN0698_thumb_JPG_62b99319b3f96af56aa705fdc8b59c19.jpg

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Really gorgeous, Pete. Looks real. Is that one of the Tamiya 1/12 Porsches?

935 build that I did several years ago.  Thanks for the comment.

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I think you answered your question..... from one of my train modeling .....

another is the 12" rule. if you view the model from 12" away, in 1/87 scale, it's comparable to viewing it from 87' away. what detail can you see from there? 12" away in 1/25 scale would be viewing from 25' away. can you see the bolts?

whatever your pain threshold.

i giggle when i read a photo caption which states "there's even real oil on the removable dipstick".

 

addendum: see "rivets" comments in Big Boys Fiat thread. to rehash, the larger the scale modeled, the more detail is demanded to make it look convincing.

Edited by plastic-mechanic

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i giggle when i read a photo caption which states "there's even real oil on the removable dipstick".

 

addendum: see "rivets" comments in Big Boys Fiat thread. to rehash, the larger the scale modeled, the more detail is demanded to make it look convincing.

The fact that the dipstick is removable says a lot; I use brown magic marker instead of oil.

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I find detailing to be addictive. Once I add a detail, I have to add another. Then another. Pretty soon I've gone completely crazy scratchbuilding linkages and lines and details that weren't in the kit. But the results are worth the effort...

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You really can't say you have reached the ultimate until they start up and run.  Check this out.  Yea, it is a nice Offy but look at the other engines in the back ground.  I see a Pan head Harley and a Ford Flathead at least.  There are a ton of miniature machinist out there that put most of this stuff to shame. 

 

Edited by Pete J.

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I think you answered your question , how far do You want to go , that's the limiting factor. A line from one of my train modeling books is, " Put your best detail in front of the scene and people will usually assume that all of the unseen detail is the same level ".

I'll be sure to remember this. If it isn't visible, don't sweat it.

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I find detailing to be addictive. Once I add a detail, I have to add another. Then another. Pretty soon I've gone completely crazy scratchbuilding linkages and lines and details that weren't in the kit. But the results are worth the effort...

That about sums it up for me! :D

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Some great opinions here and excellent pics too.

Michael, I agree with what many have said here, especially Robert in post #2.  For instance, if the molded in bolts on a motor part look too bulky, grind them out/off and add brass mini nuts/bolts.  I like using metal lug nuts on 1:25 wheels.  Motors though, are just screaming to have some metal added. 

The motors Pete and Harry show are really great looking pieces, if you build 1:25 there are lots of possibilities. 

Like Harry said above, "I find detailing to be addictive. Once I add a detail, I have to add another. Then another. Pretty soon I've gone completely crazy scratchbuilding linkages and lines and details that weren't in the kit. But the results are worth the effort"...

This I agree to 100  pro.  Michael, start off with here and there on especially visible areas, then go from there if you haven't already. 

 

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mustang bay

If it's visible, add it.  There are a lot of bolts and holes in this photo. All taken from photos of the real thing.  The bolts are Grandt Line, which are made for model trains.  They are injection molded and come on trees. The bolt has a tail on it, so you drill a hole and stick it in.

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All detailing can be addictive if allowed to go unchecked.I built an abandonded gas station diorama last year and thought the seams where the tank sections were joined togeather would look better with some rivets so I started drilling holes(!).1,100 holes later it does look better.When someone sees that and they ask me how I did that and I tell them those that are not model builders tend to look over the top of their glasses and after a slight pause......say.......really?

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I get the same looks when I explain drilling out the rotors on photoetched disks.  The holes were etched less then half way through, so a pin vise with the correct bit. 125 holes per disk, two per rotor(front and back with vent sandwiched in between time four corners. about 1,000 holes drilled by hand. 

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DSC00025.jpg

YIKES! I'd probably end up doing the same thing though! :D

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I get the same looks when I explain drilling out the rotors on photoetched disks.  The holes were etched less then half way through, so a pin vise with the correct bit. 125 holes per disk, two per rotor(front and back with vent sandwiched in between time four corners. about 1,000 holes drilled by hand. 

  I look at that in Total Amazement, knowing full well were I to try that (Not To Mention then repeat 7 Times part) my mind would go into an endless loop of "Napoleon XIV's" "They're Coming To Take Me Away"................... 

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I find detailing to be addictive. Once I add a detail, I have to add another. Then another. Pretty soon I've gone completely crazy scratchbuilding linkages and lines and details that weren't in the kit. But the results are worth the effort...

34a_zpspzf8ohf9.jpg

I refuse to believe this is a scale replica. :lol:

 

That is absolutely stunning.

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Harry,your stuff is always inspirational.Unique subject matter done masterfully!

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