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A Philosophical Conversation


JollySipper
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When you've been-there, done-it, you may feel differently. I've been there. The incident is public record. I am not proud of it, I wish it had never happened, and in the same circumstances I'd do exactly the same thing. I recall quite vividly what went through my mind during the incident, and every conscious decision that led up to the conclusion.

I fired my warning shot down, where it could do no harm and not ricochet. I did NOT WANT to have to kill the SOB. A .357 makes a loud noise, enough to make anyone relatively sane and capable of being reasoned with back off. Fool didn't stop, so I stopped him. One shot, center of mass. The other one ran away, and once his back was towards me and he was no threat, I let him go.

I was held and questioned by the authorities for several hours while the crime-scene techs did their thing at my home, released, no charges filed. THEY told me of his increasingly serious record, and were of the opinion that, had I not ended him, he probably would have eventually killed someone who couldn't pull the trigger, or had chosen to not have a trigger to pull.

Thank you Bill, for sharing this. 

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I was in a similar situation as Bill, and a bit jaded from having been robbed twice in retail situations.  My wife and I were asleep in bed in our first house. I was in my late 20s. It was a small house so the front door in the living room was on the opposite side of the bedroom wall our headboard was against. It was about 2:30 in the morning. We were dead asleep.  Both of us sat in bed bolt upright as we heard fumbling at our screen door. Then we heard the noisy hinges on our front door. Someone was in the house. 

Not being a gun owner, I grabbed the miniature baseball bat from under my night stand and headed towards the living room barefoot and in my underwear. The living room only had lamps, so there was no wall switch for me to throw to turn the lights on.  Across the dark room there was somebody. A hulk of a person larger than myself.  I shouted out and got a muffled response. There I was feeling small and unclothed as this person lumbered towards me.  If I had a gun I surely would have fired.  Right before the person got within swinging range, I heard a voice, "Tom, it's Brian."  Every bit of my person drained from my body. It was okay.

Yea, it was Brian my idiot friend. He was out drinking with a buddy who got pulled over, charged with a DWI and the car towed. The cops just told Brian to "take a hike" and he was within stumbling distance from my house.  When the door opened, either it was unlocked or the old wooden door allowed him to push in (we kept the screen door locked after that!), he thought he would quietly sneak in and sleep on the couch. But he had too much to drink and was noisy and stumbling about, so didn't work out too well.  I put him in my car and drove him home. The quicker this whole thing was over the better!  And man did I catch it from the wife!

New Jersey has some of the toughest gun laws in the country.  I didn't have a gun, half because I really had no interest and it wasn't a part of my upbringing, and half because the law made it tougher than getting a CDL license!  And it was a good thing.  Brian may have been shot dead and I would have had to live with it. 

 

Thanks Tom for your story ...

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"A wise man learns from others mistakes, a fool learns from his own......"

I learn best from my own. Does that make me a fool?

Oh...wait...then there's the one that says "The Person Who Never Makes a Mistake Will Never Make Anything".

Various attributions:

1859: He who never made a mistake, never made a discovery. (Samuel Smiles)

1896: It’s only those who do nothing that make no mistakes. (Joseph Conrad)

1900: The only man who never makes a mistake is the man who never does anything. (Solid Attribution: Theodore Roosevelt)

1927: Every man makes mistakes; they say a man who never makes mistakes never makes anything else. (G. K. Chesterton)

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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That should really resonate with you.

i'm not the morbidly obese individual who can't do a full day's work, either. maybe stop posting 40 posts a day on multiple internet forums complaining how stupid everyone else in the world is, and eating pastrami sandwiches so that you could finish multiple projects for rich clients enhancing your portfolio in order that you, and your 40 year old milling machine, could move to beautiful N,S,E, & W Arizona and enjoy the sunsets and sunrises? just a thought. don't forget to take your advil.

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i'm not the morbidly obese individual who can't do a full day's work, either. maybe stop posting 40 posts a day on multiple internet forums complaining how stupid everyone else in the world is, and eating pastrami sandwiches so that you could finish multiple projects for rich clients enhancing your portfolio in order that you, and your 40 year old milling machine, could move to beautiful N,S,E, & W Arizona and enjoy the sunsets and sunrises? just a thought. don't forget to take your advil.

I'd rather be all of the above than someone like you.

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i'm not the morbidly obese individual who can't do a full day's work, either. maybe stop posting 40 posts a day on multiple internet forums complaining how stupid everyone else in the world is, and eating pastrami sandwiches so that you could finish multiple projects for rich clients enhancing your portfolio in order that you, and your 40 year old milling machine, could move to beautiful N,S,E, & W Arizona and enjoy the sunsets and sunrises? just a thought. don't forget to take your advil.

I love you too.  :D

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I disagree. You learn best from your own mistakes.

Yea, you're right,  but we have to not look at them as mistakes, but rather ways learned not to do something........

I learned from my old man who Not to be....... I guess you could say I learned from his flubs  :)

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i'm not the morbidly obese individual who can't do a full day's work, either. maybe stop posting 40 posts a day on multiple internet forums complaining how stupid everyone else in the world is, and eating pastrami sandwiches so that you could finish multiple projects for rich clients enhancing your portfolio in order that you, and your 40 year old milling machine, could move to beautiful N,S,E, & W Arizona and enjoy the sunsets and sunrises? just a thought. don't forget to take your advil.

Harry or who ever controls this site. Have you read the above guys comments? Even though it's not aimed at me directly, I find it more than a little offensive. We don't need that kind of thing here. Do we?

 

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Harry or who ever controls this site. Have you read the above guys comments? Even though it's not aimed at me directly, I find it more than a little offensive. We don't need that kind of thing here. Do we?

Yes, I know what's going on and yes, I was about to delete all of those comments (actually the comments you cited are aimed at a specific member, but not you).

Then I decided to give them one last chance. If it continues on, I will delete the comments. Let's hope that the two members involved in this little spat can take it to private PM, where they can insult each other all day long, if that's what they want to do. But stop doing it publicly.

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Scott, I've seen characters that trolled a LOT worse than this guy! Not sticking up for him (He's a big boy), but on some forums I've visited, especially those that allow profanity, It's unreal some of the things you will read............

This guy reminds me of JB........... I kinda liked JB.................

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a outside vieuw on the whole gun and protect yourself thing >

living in holland where nobody other then law inforcement can carry or own a gun , and only people in very rare gun shooting ranges can get a permit if they have a immaculate history .

they can own a gun but have to store it in pieces and in a safe , never put together and never have ammunution  , transport it under strickt rules from their home to the gun range and only can assemble and fire it there on the range ....

 

i'm a bit inbetween on the subject one part of me thinks its good if you cn defend yourself in your own home or on your on propperty ..but then this could be used the wrong way ....so part of me thinks yes i want us (europe) to be able to own a gun in our own home for protection ..

on the other hand i'm thinking the opposite way .. we almost never have shootings , gun are hard to get hold of (not impossible) ... when somebody iss shot its breaking , breaking new and seems alian to people , like whow !!! really !!! ..

 

what really is striking and sometimes makes me angry ... when somebody breaks into our home and we protect our family .. and strike him down or even kill him if i have to .. we get arrested and trialed ....

storys like a burgular who broke in , homeowner kicked hi ass and he got into a wheelchair .. and the homeowner has to pay his whole life because he became invalid .... come on !! how stupid ... the guy breaking in decided to do so and knew the risk right ???

 

i can go on and on .. sstill i'm on the middle line on the subject ....i would say it good when you have the option to shoot a nother person , when your life or the life of your loved ones i really in danger .. and then i still think the best option would be to disable him with a bullet ... for arrest ....but thats a perfect world ..

thi will always be a tough subject with people for and against it ... me ... i can find myself in both sides and think its hard to decide or pick one side ...

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Yes, I know what's going on and yes, I was about to delete all of those comments (actually the comments you cited are aimed at a specific member, but not you).

Then I decided to give them one last chance. If it continues on, I will delete the comments. Let's hope that the two members involved in this little spat can take it to private PM, where they can insult each other all day long, if that's what they want to do. But stop doing it publicly.

Thank you Harry. I too hope this resolves itself without your intervention.

 

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Never trust a skinny chef - Not sure who first said it, but it makes me chuckle.

 

As far as learning from mistakes, my personal experience is that I learn from my own as well as others. My mistakes seem to resonate with me more as I own them, others, not so much.

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i'm a bit inbetween on the subject one part of me thinks its good if you cn defend yourself in your own home or on your on propperty ..but then this could be used the wrong way ....so part of me thinks yes i want us (europe) to be able to own a gun in our own home for protection ..


 

Switzerland issues every adult a gun and trains them how to use it: Switzerland has lowest gun-related crime rate in the civilized world.

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Switzerland does not issue a gun to every adult. If your a soldier in the Swiss army you are required to keep a gun at home. Switzerland does have a high rate of gun ownership compared to other countries in the European Union. Yet that percentage is still lower than the United States. Under 30%.

I believe in our Constitutional right to keep a gun in this country if one wishes to. As I've noted before, I don't wish to do so. And that should be okay too. I also believe in Castle laws. You should have a right to defend yourself if someone breaks into your while you are there.

Also I'm glad to see Robert Heinlein get quoted here in a philosophical discussion. I did not agree with a lot his views on things. But, over the years his fiction books in particular got me thinking about somethings in a slightly different light. Every ten years or so, I try to rereading Stanger In a Strange Land.

And the answer to all philosophical questions is still 42.

 

Edited by unclescott58
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