Duplicolor primers too hot for current-production kits?

[Ace-Garageguy]

The last few kits I've tested Duplicolor sandable primers on have crazed instantly...even if I shot the stuff slightly dry...just wet enough to avoid orange peel.

Has anyone else noticed this?

I'm not really wanting to have to switch to model-specific primers, but will if it's absolutely necessary.

[StevenGuthmiller]

The last few kits I've tested Duplicolor sandable primers on have crazed instantly...even if I shot the stuff slightly dry...just wet enough to avoid orange peel.

Has anyone else noticed this?

I'm not really wanting to have to switch to model-specific primers, but will if it's absolutely necessary.

I've always noticed it was pretty hot.

I always shoot a coat of Testors primer first & then layer on a few light coats of Duplicolor just as I would automotive lacquer.

Starting very light & getting a little heavier with each coat.

I settled on this method after having issues with using either primer alone.

The Duplicolor is too hot on it's own but creates a better barrier to lacquer paint, & Testors is not hot at all, but doesn't have the same "sealing" qualities.

But a combination of the two works very well for me.

 

Steve

[JollySipper]

I've been having good luck with DupliColor engine enamel primer...... It has ceramic in it, and I think that's what makes it tough enough to stand up to the Perfect Match paints....

It goes on thin and sands smooth.......

[crazyjim]

I haven't had any issues with Duplicolor (yet).

[Mark]

I think they've been messing with the formulae for the primers in recent years.  The regular "primer" seems to be really thin and hot.  What used to be "primer" is now called "sandable primer", what used to be "sandable" is now "filler primer".  In the past, even the plain old "primer" had some build qualities...not any more.  Just another case of "cheapen the product, then bring the old stuff back later with a premium label and a higher price".

Lately, when I have used the automotive stuff, I've used the "filler primer" sparingly because it covers better than "primer".  Once everything is smooth, I give everything a quick blast of "sealer primer" and lay the top coats on over that.

[ZTony8]

I recall that there was an issue a few years ago about some Revell kits crazing when paint was applied because of a change in the plastic.Could this be the case here?

[MrObsessive]

I recall that there was an issue a few years ago about some Revell kits crazing when paint was applied because of a change in the plastic.Could this be the case here?

That could be. Back about 10 years ago, guys were screaming about the then new Revell Mustang and Dodge Magnum kits crazing very easily with just regular primer where this wasn't the case before.

It's one of the reasons I use a barrier coat for the most part if I have even the slightest doubt that the plastic might give me trouble. BIN Zinsser Sealer is my go to sealer of choice these days. I thought I read somewhere that China back in those days was substituting the tougher plastic for injection molded kits for something much cheaper (read: poorer quality), due to their building some project that involved a lot of plastic in their part of the world.

Not sure about all of that, but today's plastic is not the same as it was even 15+ years ago.

Oh! I'm a BIG believer in using only Plastikote T-235 Sandable Primer! It's as scarce as hen's teeth to get around here anymore, so I've gotten my supply off eBay as of late. I've NEVER had a problem with it as far as coverage or crazing inconsistencies.

Edited September 3, 2016 by MrObsessive

[Ace-Garageguy]

Oh! I'm a BIG believer in using only Plastikote T-235 Sandable Primer! It's as scarce as hen's teeth to get around here anymore, so I've gotten my supply off eBay as of late. I've NEVER have I had a problem with it as far as coverage or crazing inconsistencies.

Thanks for everyone's feedback.

Bill...I've had good luck with the running-very-low PlastiKote primers I have, but I've been reluctant to order from Amazon or 'bay because I've read these have been reformulated too.

I assume they're still working well for you...you've actually used the web-ordered version?    (All the local places that carried the product have switched to Duplicolor)

[MrObsessive]

Thanks for everyone's feedback.

Bill...I've had good luck with the running-very-low PlastiKote primers I have, but I've been reluctant to order from Amazon or 'bay because I've read these have been reformulated too.

I assume they're still working well for you...you've actually used the web-ordered version?    (All the local places that carried the product have switched to Duplicolor)

Hmmm..........I have to admit Bill, on my very soon to be finished BMW 850i, I was still using the older can of Plastikote as a primer. It's on its last bit left, and I tried it out on a plastic spoon before I put it on the body, and had no adverse reaction. This is the first I've heard of Plastikote falling into the "reformulation" trap, and I'll certainly try the new can out (I'll test it to death) when it comes time to start the next WIP.

And yes, we have a local CarQuest which was the only place in my area that carried Plastikote, and they too have switched to strictly Duplicolor.

Do you know when the possible reformulation took place with Plastikote? The can I used might be just a couple years old.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Do you know when the possible reformulation took place with Plastikote? The can I used might be just a couple years old.

I'm still digging for the "reformulation" concerns I remember reading, but this was posted on Amazon, Aug. 27, 2014:

"Plasti Kote seems to have gone downhill fast. I ordered a box of 6 primer spray cans, and every one was defective. T-235 was always my favorite primer, but none of these cans worked. At most, I got about one third of the primer before each can stopped working. Little or no pressure in the cans, spray valves clogged and broke, extremely disappointed. Perhaps it was poor quality control or the seller had them in storage too long, but I ordered these because on the east coast Plasti Kote isn't sold anymore."

[StevenGuthmiller]

but I ordered these because on the east coast Plasti Kote isn't sold anymore."

I don't think it's sold much of any place any more.

I haven't seen a can of Plasti Kote in many years!

 

Steve

[MrObsessive]

Ok Bill, your post above prompted me to do a quick and dirty test of the new can of Plastikote I have on a plastic spoon.............

As per normal of the "old" Plastikote, the primer dried very fast and I even gave the coat a few quick swipes of the 3200 grit polishing cloth. No crazing that I can see here, and this was directly out of the can.

Here is the new can as it's being sold today. Now granted, when I first tried to spray this the tip clogged up something terrible and I had to clean things out with acetone. It still wouldn't spray the way I'd like, so a few turns with the point of an Exacto blade in the nozzle, and it then sprayed like a champ!

Interesting how the cap is shaped now. Have we gone so PC that there has to be a "safety cap" so that one doesn't spray themselves in the face?? There's actually a "locking" mechanism on the cap so that you can turn it and don't "accidentally" spray yourself.

I'm also not a fan of the shape of the cap as this makes it difficult to store the can upside-down when not in use. That's the best way to store paint cans as the solids in the paint don't settle so much on the bottom, and then the nozzle clogs up immediately the millisecond you start to spray. I had this can packed away which probably explains the spraying difficulty in the beginning (and probably the problem the upset Amazon customer had), but now the can is leaning upside down on a storage shelf ready for use when the time comes. 

BTW, I'm not a fan of spraying directly out of spray cans. While Plastikote is great in that they still use the good old fashioned round spray nozzles, the force of the spray is not to my liking and I decant everything into a jar and airbrush everything. I hate those "fan sprays" that the other makers use as they're woefully messy, and I'd sooner replace the nozzle on those with a round one.

Hope this helps!

[Ace-Garageguy]

Ok Bill, your post above prompted me to do a quick and dirty test of the new can of Plastikote I have on a plastic spoon.............

...Hope this helps!

Thanks, Bill. I've been trying hard to avoid going to the 'big boy' airbrush for everything, but it's looking like the time has about come. I used to be able to do consistently nice work with rattlecan-everything, but the apparent constant tinkering with products and packaging is making that more and more hit-or-miss...and I'm used to knowing my work will turn out well, not having to close my eyes and hope.

I appreciate your trying that stuff on a spoon. Only possible caveat is that I've had spoons that seem to be much more solvent-resistant than the "styrene" both Revell and R2 are using now.

I have vintage Johan models in progress that will withstand the hottest of the SEM automotive self-etching primers, shot wet to flow, with no crazing whatsoever...and they look great. Last time I tried a SEM primer on a current Revell kit, it practically exploded (well, not really, but the crazing was severe and instant).

And I probably really ought to go shake all my old rattlecans, make sure they spray, and turn them upside down. Yeah, like I'm really going to do that. But I should.  

Edited September 3, 2016 by Ace-Garageguy

[MrObsessive]

Yeah, things aren't what they used to be, and it seems to be getting worse as far as quality is concerned on some things. As I mentioned in another post, it's the reason I've been resorting to using this............

Especially when there's a LOT of bodywork involved such as on my '59 Chevy, and what's going to be involved on my soon to be started '68 Shelby, I don't take any chances. This works well as you've seen my work that I've done, but it works best when applied with an airbrush.

[Mike Chernecki]

I have 3 cans of PlastiKote with the new style top. Each one is unusable as there is no air in the can and they are all between 3/4 and full. I have 1 old can that has maybe a tablespoon of paint in it and it still sprays great right to empty.

I have since switched to Tamiya primers. I received some Gravity Colors primer last week that I havn't tried yet.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I have 3 cans of PlastiKote with the new style top. Each one is unusable as there is no air in the can and they are all between 3/4 and full. I have 1 old can that has maybe a tablespoon of paint in it and it still sprays great right to empty.

 Bugger.

[MrObsessive]

I have 3 cans of PlastiKote with the new style top. Each one is unusable as there is no air in the can and they are all between 3/4 and full. I have 1 old can that has maybe a tablespoon of paint in it and it still sprays great right to empty.

I have since switched to Tamiya primers. I received some Gravity Colors primer last week that I havn't tried yet.

Mike, if you haven't already tried you can do what I did. I washed the nozzle out as best I could with Acetone, and then in the nozzle hole itself, I stuck the point of the Exacto blade in and lightly turned it maybe five or six times. 

Mine felt like there was not pressure in it, but I manage to take off that stupid "safety cap" and pressed down on the stem very quickly with a flat screwdriver. Sure enough, paint did come out of the stem so that told me the nozzle was very clogged. Once I reamed out the nozzle a bit, it really sprayed well---------almost too well!

Hope this helps as clogged paint cans are very frustrating!

[Tom Geiger]

I found Duplicolor / Plastikote primers crazed on Japanese kits.  I had a problem with the Fiat 500 I did years ago.  I think that's why those who regularly build Japanese kits swear by Tamiya primers 

[Mike_G]

Some time back there was a suggestion where the new style cap/nozzle on Plastikote primer could be replaced with a Tamiya nozzle. I found it to work quite well, the primer still needed a wet sand prior to the color coats but it was fairly smooth. Not as smooth as Tamiya but I found it acceptable.

I was just going to mention that.

I guess I'm lucky in that my local auto parts store carries both T-235 (grey) and T-237 (white) PlastiKote primers

[Cato]

Yeah, things aren't what they used to be, and it seems to be getting worse as far as quality is concerned on some things. As I mentioned in another post, it's the reason I've been resorting to using this............

 

Especially when there's a LOT of bodywork involved such as on my '59 Chevy, and what's going to be involved on my soon to be started '68 Shelby, I don't take any chances. This works well as you've seen my work that I've done, but it works best when applied with an airbrush.

Bill, what do you thin the Zinsser with for airbrushing?

[MrObsessive]

Bill, what do you thin the Zinsser with for airbrushing?

BIN is basically a shellac. I've not had to thin it however I'd guess alcohol should do the trick. Since I airbrush it, I do use a slightly higher PSI (around 15-20) to put it on and I use an older airbrush. My tried and true old Badger Crescendo comes into play whenever I need to use it.

[Cato]

BIN is basically a shellac. I've not had to thin it however I'd guess alcohol should do the trick. Since I airbrush it, I do use a slightly higher PSI (around 15-20) to put it on and I use an older airbrush. My tried and true old Badger Crescendo comes into play whenever I need to use it.

Yes I thought shellac too. Thanks Bill.

[Mike Chernecki]

Thanks Bill, You were right, twist of the blade and it started spraying.

And Thanks Vernon, I swapped out a Tamiya nozzle and it worked perfect. I think it is a much finer pattern than the PlastiKote nozzle.

And in Bill's original post, YES DupliColor primer is very hot compared to what it was. I have a fresh can of black primer and it crazes anything it touches. yet, I have a year old can of Hot Rod Grey and no problems at all.

[aurfalien]

This thread is amazing!

I swapped out the libtard nozzle/cap with Tamiyas, waaayyy better!

[Ace-Garageguy]

I swapped out the libtard nozzle/cap with Tamiyas, waaayyy better!